Focus Speed/Ability of Z7ii/Z6ii and a 500mm f/5.6 AF-S PF/FTZ Verses a 400mm f/4.5 S Z Lens With a 1.4 TC.

[Robert Ardinger]

Wondering if anyone has experience with the speed to achieve focus and the lock on ability of a Z7ii/Z6ii and a 500mm f/5.6 AF-S PF with FTZ adapter verses the same camera and a 400mm f/4.5 S Z lens with a 1.4 TC. Searching the archives gives me some information but I did not find a direct comparison.

A while back, wanting to be involved with my wife’s budding birding interests, I bought the 500mm lens (originally for a D800 but now used on a Z7ii) and it can produce very sharp images (first example below) but using it for small and/or active/flying birds has proven a bit of a challenge (kind of wearing out my delete key). When it gets focus (second example), all is well but many times misses or delivers nice background images. I have tried out and am learning more about the different focusing modes the Z7ii/Z6ii have (Steve’s book helped a lot).

I am not a primary bird photographer so for almost everything else I like to do the Z7ii/Z6ii is fine, I appreciate it’s modest size and although it sounds like a Z8 or Z9 would help solve many focusing issues, for now, I wanted to stay with my relatively new Z7ii and Z6ii cameras.

Somewhat surprised (not in a good way) at the trade in (de)value of the 500mm PF but would consider changing it for the 400mm Z with 1.4 TC if there was an obvious/significant gain in focusing ability. (I have the Z 1.4 TC for use with the Z 70-200mm).

I am pretty much OK with the “challenge” my current set-up provides but was wondering what improvement, if any, I might see with using the native Z 400mm S/1.4 TC combo over the F 500mm PF/FTZ combo. (I do have the F 1.4 TCiii which makes the F 500mm act like a 700mm f/8 and provides that much more of a “fun” challenge but the extra reach is nice on the one day the sun shines in the PNW).

Basically if the thought is that my camera is the main limiting factor, I can happily stay with what I have and work on technique.

Thank you in advance for help and suggestions, Robert

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[fcotterill]

The 500 PF was the lens I used the most on a Z7, but I no longer have the camera; so cannot comment on AF speed of the 400 f4.5S on a Z7. However these are both excellent optics, and It's a hard choice between them for birds. Main factors are fastest aperture, weight and cost, besides F vs Z so needing a FTZ adapter for the 500.

The 500 PF gets you to 700 f8 with TC14 vs 560 f6.3, but the 400 has better rendering and is sharper if one pixel peeps. There are a few BCG threads here testifying to the high quality results possible for birds with the 500 PF on Z MILCs.

Nikon 500mm PF with 1.4x TC

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bcgforums.com

Nikon Z 400 f4.5 with 1.4x TC vs 500 pf questions!?

Hi folks, I currently own a Nikon 500 pf that I pair with Z9. I am considering switching to Z 400 f4.5 with 1.4x TC after selling the 500PF. A few Youtube reviews that I have seen suggest that the 400 f4.5 with 1.4x tc in place is considerably sharper than the 500 pf with the added benefit of...

bcgforums.com

However, i find negligible difference between these primes on a Z9 regarding AF speed. So my suggestion is it is the camera that's the factor. A Z8 will give a big leap forward for challenging birds, but the Z6 and Z7 remain highly capable for the majority of genres.

@EricBowles gets excellent results with his Z cameras on moving subjects, including birds and he has great experience using the first generations of Z MILCs.

 

[EricBowles]

Wondering if anyone has experience with the speed to achieve focus and the lock on ability of a Z7ii/Z6ii and a 500mm f/5.6 AF-S PF with FTZ adapter verses the same camera and a 400mm f/4.5 S Z lens with a 1.4 TC. Searching the archives gives me some information but I did not find a direct comparison.

A while back, wanting to be involved with my wife’s budding birding interests, I bought the 500mm lens (originally for a D800 but now used on a Z7ii) and it can produce very sharp images (first example below) but using it for small and/or active/flying birds has proven a bit of a challenge (kind of wearing out my delete key). When it gets focus (second example), all is well but many times misses or delivers nice background images. I have tried out and am learning more about the different focusing modes the Z7ii/Z6ii have (Steve’s book helped a lot).

I am not a primary bird photographer so for almost everything else I like to do the Z7ii/Z6ii is fine, I appreciate it’s modest size and although it sounds like a Z8 or Z9 would help solve many focusing issues, for now, I wanted to stay with my relatively new Z7ii and Z6ii cameras.

Somewhat surprised (not in a good way) at the trade in (de)value of the 500mm PF but would consider changing it for the 400mm Z with 1.4 TC if there was an obvious/significant gain in focusing ability. (I have the Z 1.4 TC for use with the Z 70-200mm).

I am pretty much OK with the “challenge” my current set-up provides but was wondering what improvement, if any, I might see with using the native Z 400mm S/1.4 TC combo over the F 500mm PF/FTZ combo. (I do have the F 1.4 TCiii which makes the F 500mm act like a 700mm f/8 and provides that much more of a “fun” challenge but the extra reach is nice on the one day the sun shines in the PNW).

Basically if the thought is that my camera is the main limiting factor, I can happily stay with what I have and work on technique.

Thank you in advance for help and suggestions, Robert

Last year I spent 10 days on the Georgia Coast with lots of bird photography. The primary subject was shorebirds. Because the wind direction was unfavorable, 80% of the opportunities for birds in flight were backlit subject - a subject where AF struggles a bit more and the hit rate is lower. I was using primarily the 500mm PF and 1.4 TC III on the Z7ii. The first day was difficult as I was out of practice for birds in flight. My in-focus rate was probably 30%. By late the second day I was at the 70% rate or higher. With front lighting on birds I was near 90% in focus. Sure - there were passes where I missed initial focus and the camera never picked up the subject. But there were also passes where I picked up the subject early and it held focus until the subject was very close and off-angle. I was using the mechanical shutter on the Z6 and Z7ii rather than silent shooting because the EVF is closer to real time. In spite of the slower frame rate, the keeper rate is higher with some subjects.

For my equestrian work - mainly foxhunting - I was at 95% in focus with the D850 and a similar level with both the Z6 and Z7ii using the F-mount 70-200 f/2.8 VRii and later the Z 70-200 f/2.8. Where I gained a little in terms of keepers was the higher frame rate of both mirrorless cameras allowed me to get a perfectly timed shot almost every time. This type of work can involve a new rider every 1-1.5 seconds for a total of 60-70 riders, so it is very fast paced and demanding of focus. For this kind of work I always warm up for 10 minutes or so. I'm normally shooting 2000+ frames in 2.5 - 3 hours for a typical event.

For all of this work, I'm not using tracking. I'm setting up a good and for the subject with a good background, and using Wide Large or Wide Small. I'm not using 3D at all - it's simply not necessary. I always try to pick up the subject and focus on it and then start shooting as it gets closer.

I have used eye-detect, but the DOF is wrong so I either miss the horse or the rider. Instead I focus on the chest of the horse, the rider's hands, the rider's knee, or the front edge of the saddle. When testing at an event, Eye Detect worked 100% of the time - and I discarded all of them due to DOF.

Perched subjects are a non-event. I try to use wide small, but if a subject is partially obstructed or I need precision, I switch to dynamic. On occasion I have used AF-S and Pinpoint - even with the Z8. On the Z7ii and Z6, AF is exceptionally accurate and it will usually hold focus once achieved (so it knows my subject).

At this point I have sold the 500mm PF and use the 400mm f/4.5 with and without the 1.4 TC in a similar manner. I have not had a chance to extended testing of the 400mm f/4.5 for shorebirds. For backyard birds, I have tested it for sharpness and it's excellent. I can resolve tiny details such as the fibers making up the feathers of the eyering on a songbird.

I'm never going to be wedded to a single AF mode. There are too many cases where it fails - and even if subject detection works perfectly it may not be what is needed.

 

[Robert Ardinger]

Thank you fcotterill and EricBowles.

It seems that while there might be a bit of a difference in focusing speed/lock with the different lenses, the "rate limiting" step in my setup is mostly my experience (lack thereof) with photographing flying birds and perhaps some limitations from the camera (as compared to higher models).

Since I likely would be using a 400mm with a 1.4TC most of the time means both (400/TC-500/FTZ) would have the "downside" of an added connection between lens and body so sort of similar physical set-ups.

I think the best choice for now is working on acquiring experience /skill with the 500/FTZ/Z7ii.