Grip design question

[RichF]

The D850 grip allows the NB-15C (I think I got the battery ids correct) battery to keep in the camera and larger NB-18C battery in the grip. Connection was made through bottom of the camera. Never had a problem with the connection and liked have the smaller battery just in case. Plus could share the 18C between D5/6 and D850 grip. This seems like a better solution than having the battery removed and grip stick into the battery chamber.

What am I missing? Was there a problem with the connection on the bottom of the D850?

 

[dabhand16]

I think that the likely reason is with the smaller Z bodies there was insufficient room to have the contacts and associated wiring etc. in the base. Maybe they just wanted to remove the duplicte conection to save on manufacturing costs.

 

[JoelKlein]

I’m curious if a 3th party could design a grip for the Z8 that takes the Z9 battery, and make the grip a bit nicer..

 

[DRwyoming]

I’m curious if a 3th party could design a grip for the Z8 that takes the Z9 battery, and make the grip a bit nicer..

Someone almost certainly will. There are third party grips that accept the larger EN-EL18 series batteries for every recent Nikon camera that will accept a grip. Newer, Vello and a number of other companies have been making after market grips for years now and they'll almost certainly release one that's compatible with the Z8.

 

[JoelKlein]

Someone almost certainly will. There are third party grips that accept the larger EN-EL18 series batteries for every recent Nikon camera that will accept a grip. Newer, Vello and a number of other companies have been making after market grips for years now and they'll almost certainly release one that's compatible with the Z8.

Can Nikon immobilize an aftermarket grip via firmware?

 

[DRwyoming]

Can Nikon immobilize an aftermarket grip via firmware?

Not that I'm aware of, I've owned a few after market grips and they worked just fine. I'm sure all kinds of malevolent things can be done in a camera's firmware but I've never heard of that particular problem with after market grips. At this point it's academic as the camera is hardly shipping much less the after market grips.

 

[JoelKlein]

Not that I'm aware of, I've owned a few after market grips and they worked just fine. I'm sure all kinds of malevolent things can be done in a camera's firmware but I've never heard of that particular problem with after market grips. At this point it's academic as the camera is hardly shipping much less the after market grips.

As much as I’m not a fan of aftermarket stuff, a grip with a Z9 battery is really appealing. After all it’s only a physical connection, it’s not like a lens that needs constant communication. I might be wrong though

 

[NorthernFocus]

I’m curious if a 3th party could design a grip for the Z8 that takes the Z9 battery, and make the grip a bit nicer..

Someone almost certainly will. There are third party grips that accept the larger EN-EL18 series batteries for every recent Nikon camera that will accept a grip. Newer, Vello and a number of other companies have been making after market grips for years now and they'll almost certainly release one that's compatible with the Z8.

EN-EL15 and EN-EL18 batteries are different voltage. Previous cameras were designed to accommodate either voltage. The Z8 would have to be in order for 3rd parties to produce a grip that uses the EN-EL18.

 

[Len Shepherd]

There are reports the EN-EL15 C battery has around 40% of the capacity of the Z9 battery.

If this is correct 2 EL-EN C in the Z8 grip achieve 80% of the Z9 battery capacity.
As 1 battery in the grip is hot swappable 3 batteries should get 120%.

If like me you have spare EN-EL15 and decide to use the grip, 3 smaller batteries will not cost anything.

A relatively expensive after-market Z9 charger as well as a relatively expensive after market EN-EL 18 (compared to the cost of 1 extra EN-EL15 C) would be needed.

 

[fcotterill]

It appears the Z8 draws on 1 of the 2 batteries in the grip at any time. This can be inferred from the design to hot-swop the outer A battery.

The ENEL18* batteries are 10.8v, while the ENEL15 is 7.2v. So it remains to be seen if a grip will appear to use the larger battery in a Z8

 

[JoelKlein]

Then design s grip which is split in 2. Hot swappable is a regular Z8 battery, the other half is a power bank charging the battery prolonging the time until the power bank is depleted.

 

[MrFotoFool]

A major selling point for using the bigger battery with the D850 grip is that it would increase the frames per second rate from 7fps to 9fps. However, to get the full setup you had to buy three parts: the grip, a separate battery insert, and battery cover (or something like that). If you got the Nikon branded setup, all three parts together cost one thousand dollars! In my opinion this was a complete ripoff. I bought third party options which for all three parts I think came to less than two hundred. The grip was Vello but the other parts were something else. I used it breifly but it was too heavy so I stopped. (I've had it on consignment sale at a local camera shop for over a year but it seems there is no interest - if anyone here wants it send me a private message and I will give it to you for the cost of shipping).

Anyway since Z8 can do fast burst rates, a major reason for the D850 grip no longer exists for the Z8. And since the camera features are virtually identical to a Z9, I think they assume people will just buy a Z9 if they want a grip.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

The D850 grip allows the NB-15C (I think I got the battery ids correct) battery to keep in the camera and larger NB-18C battery in the grip. Connection was made through bottom of the camera. Never had a problem with the connection and liked have the smaller battery just in case. Plus could share the 18C between D5/6 and D850 grip. This seems like a better solution than having the battery removed and grip stick into the battery chamber.

What am I missing? Was there a problem with the connection on the bottom of the D850?

YES - it wears out over time -- precisely the same issue with the gripped D800 and D810 == I used to have to use a cable tie on mine to ensure the connections on the grip remained in contact with the body. The new design that places an arm into the body of the camera should be much stronger.
As Ricci demonstrated the current MB-N12 grip is simply will not wide enough to accommodate an EN-EL18 sized battery -- which is a shame. I suspect there would also have to be some clever electronics in either the grip or body to handle the higher voltage from these batteries as well. This could be part of an new MB-N12A version of the grip - designed for use with EN-EL18 sized batteries not just EN-EL15. I am sure this will come down the pipe at some time from Nikon or 3rd parties.

 

[joe43]

During Thom Hogan's Z8 review on Friday night, sponsered by Paul's Camera, he said he had a En_El15 battery in the Z8, taken about 1100 images and capacity showed 38% available. To charge a EN-EL15 in the battery grip, the batteries have to be EL 15 b or EL15 c. Most literature refers to EL 15c battery for the Z8 and or its grip.

 

[DRwyoming]

EN-EL15 and EN-EL18 batteries are different voltage. Previous cameras were designed to accommodate either voltage. The Z8 would have to be in order for 3rd parties to produce a grip that uses the EN-EL18.

True, you can see this on the bottom of previous cameras as in the D500 with it's label on the bottom that shows the camera's working voltage as 7-12V. If the Z8 isn't designed with that kind of internal voltage regulation then yeah it would add cost to design an external grip capable of holding different voltage batteries as the grip itself would have to incorporate a voltage regulator.

 

[NorthernFocus]

A major selling point for using the bigger battery with the D850 grip is that it would increase the frames per second rate from 7fps to 9fps. However, to get the full setup you had to buy three parts: the grip, a separate battery insert, and battery cover (or something like that). If you got the Nikon branded setup, all three parts together cost one thousand dollars!...

That is not true. You must have just accepted internet chatter w/out actually looking into buying the OEM parts. The grip is $400(I paid $350), battery $150, and battery cover $35. Still expensive but roughly half what you're stating.

 

[MrFotoFool]

That is not true. You must have just accepted internet chatter w/out actually looking into buying the OEM parts. The grip is $400(I paid $350), battery $150, and battery cover $35. Still expensive but roughly half what you're stating.

Thanks for updated pricing - I now stand corrected on current price for D850 grip setup. (By setup I mean including the optional battery cover to accomodate the larger D5 style battery and the bigger battery and the charger). Somewhere along the line Nikon cut the price in half becuase obviously in the current mirrorless age no one would pay what it initially cost. But it DID originally cost almost a thousand bucks because I priced it at the time and my brother actually paid that much for his. (I bought third party to save money). This discussion thread on the topic from 2017 has the following statement in reply 28: "B&H sells a grip bundle including grip, EN-EL18B, and charger for $940.85!" https://www.nikoncafe.com/threads/d850-questions-on-how-to-get-9fps.306049/page-2

 

[NorthernFocus]

Thanks for updated pricing - I now stand corrected on current price for D850 grip setup. (By setup I mean including the optional battery cover to accomodate the larger D5 style battery and the bigger battery and the charger). Somewhere along the line Nikon cut the price in half becuase obviously in the current mirrorless age no one would pay what it initially cost. But it DID originally cost almost a thousand bucks because I priced it at the time and my brother actually paid that much for his. (I bought third party to save money). This discussion thread on the topic from 2017 has the following statement in reply 28: "B&H sells a grip bundle including grip, EN-EL18B, and charger for $940.85!" https://www.nikoncafe.com/threads/d850-questions-on-how-to-get-9fps.306049/page-2

In the previous post you didn't mention the charger. That's another $350. Which is WAY more ridiculous than the price of the grip. But the current price on all those accessories is the same as it was back then. I bought mine immediately when I bought the D850. I think I bought it on Amazon and thought I paid $350 for the grip but must have been $400 I guess. That is also the price($400) that was discussed in the thread that you linked(see below). If I'd had to buy the whole kit to get 9fps out of the 850 I'd certainly not have gone OEM on all of the components. I shot D4/5 so batts and charger were already in hand. I bought third party battery covers. I had one for each camera/grip because they were so cheap.

I'm by no means trying to defend Nikon. They certainly charge a premium for stuff with their logo on it. But I am somewhat Joe Friday about facts.

Post #3:

The D850 is powered by an EN-EL15a lithium-ion battery, which is rated for 1,840 shots per charge or 70 minutes of HD video recording. The camera is compatible with a new MB-D18 Multi Power Battery Pack (sold separately for around US$400) that can use an EN-EL18a/b lithium-ion battery. When using an EN-EL18 battery in the attached optional battery grip, as we've mentioned, shooting speeds increase to 9 frames per second, and the camera's battery life improves to 5,140 shots!

 

[Len Shepherd]

have gone OEM on all of the components. I shot D4/5 so batts and charger were already in hand. I bought third party battery covers. I had one for each camera/grip because they were so cheap.

I'm by no means trying to defend Nikon. They certainly charge a premium for stuff with their logo on it.

In the UK using WEX the price for the 4 parts for a D850 including 20% sales tax is £756.

 

[MrFotoFool]

In the previous post you didn't mention the charger. That's another $350...

Apologies for my misleading omission.

 

[fcotterill]

In early 2018, I paid the following for the components for my D850 via Amazon UK:-
Mcoplus Grip £85.99

Ex-Pro Nikon BL-5 £10.95

Wasabi charger £44.10

Hahnel EN-EL18 £118.79

The 2 Hahnel's worked fine for 2+ years until struggling in a D5, in mid 2020. Recharging became erratic. Calibration attempts on the OEM charger did not work with these clones. By then I had already invested in OEM batteries. The Wasabi still charges but I no longer need it, so it's become a backup unit. The Mcoplus grip looks well used but works fine.

 

[NorthernFocus]

Apologies for my misleading omission.

No problem I think we got it sorted. No one disputing the high price of Nikon gear.