HDR Video - I need more understanding
- Thread starter JoelKlein
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On the iPhone, it captures stunning HDR video. The HDR type is Dolby Vision.
Why can’t the Zeez capture HDR footage?
@Nimi I can use a little crash course on this.
Thank you
Computational photography. They essentially process the video like we would in post. Phones have the computing power, the connectivity to servers, and frankly 100x the R&D resources to do it.
Joel,
The Z8 and Z9 are outstanding cameras for HDR...and there are two ways to do it...shoot in NRaw or H.265 10-bit in HLG tone mode. There are a variety of different flavors of HDR, however and to be able to properly color grade it, you really do need an HDR capable display and a Black Magic Design display card to drive the HDR monitor properly in an editing environment. If you're a Mac user, the XDR displays can do a fair job, but don't reach the 1000nit brightness level that would be ideal.
There are ways you can start experimenting and if you get the hang of it, you can edit in Resolve, use your scopes to get the levels in the ballpark, then view the resulting HDR output file on an iPhone that is HDR capable. This is a kluge, but it can get you started. In my case, I did that while I was deciding on a monitor and the BMD output device I'd buy. I now have a BMD Decklink Mini in my editing PC and a calibrated LG 48" C3 series OLED display as my grading monitor...about $1200 in those items and another $400 or so in calibration hardware and software. Technically, you could use a non-OLED consumer TV that is HDR capable, but they are problematic in terms of colorimetry and contrast ratio due to the effects of a lot of the processing that can't be turned off...local dimming zones, motion smoothing, etc. Of course that's what many people will be viewing on, but it's hard to get a good baseline with one of those.
I rarely shoot video in anything other than NRaw or H.265 10- bit HLG mode as either can be output in SDR if need be. Here are a couple short test clips in HDR...the first was shot in NRaw 8K @ 60fps, the second in 8K @ 30fps, H.265 10-bit HLG...both on a Z8. Of course these will view in SDR if that's what you're viewing on, but if you follow the links on an HDR capable phone, you should see them in HDR. Alternately, if you can view on a consumer HDR capable TV, then you can better appreciate the HDR qualities.
The Z8 and Z9 are outstanding cameras for HDR...and there are two ways to do it...shoot in NRaw or H.265 10-bit in HLG tone mode. There are a variety of different flavors of HDR, however and to be able to properly color grade it, you really do need an HDR capable display and a Black Magic Design display card to drive the HDR monitor properly in an editing environment. If you're a Mac user, the XDR displays can do a fair job, but don't reach the 1000nit brightness level that would be ideal.
There are ways you can start experimenting and if you get the hang of it, you can edit in Resolve, use your scopes to get the levels in the ballpark, then view the resulting HDR output file on an iPhone that is HDR capable. This is a kluge, but it can get you started. In my case, I did that while I was deciding on a monitor and the BMD output device I'd buy. I now have a BMD Decklink Mini in my editing PC and a calibrated LG 48" C3 series OLED display as my grading monitor...about $1200 in those items and another $400 or so in calibration hardware and software. Technically, you could use a non-OLED consumer TV that is HDR capable, but they are problematic in terms of colorimetry and contrast ratio due to the effects of a lot of the processing that can't be turned off...local dimming zones, motion smoothing, etc. Of course that's what many people will be viewing on, but it's hard to get a good baseline with one of those.
I rarely shoot video in anything other than NRaw or H.265 10- bit HLG mode as either can be output in SDR if need be. Here are a couple short test clips in HDR...the first was shot in NRaw 8K @ 60fps, the second in 8K @ 30fps, H.265 10-bit HLG...both on a Z8. Of course these will view in SDR if that's what you're viewing on, but if you follow the links on an HDR capable phone, you should see them in HDR. Alternately, if you can view on a consumer HDR capable TV, then you can better appreciate the HDR qualities.
Ahhhh, Thats what log is for.
I have a BenQ photographers monitor which isn’t HDR. I have a spider Pro calibrator.
Basically I need to upgrade the to a BenQ HDR and get another calibrator?
Can I process still pictures in HDR? Would WHCC print them? I’m curious.
What about screen sharing, will an HDR photo look worse on a non HDR monitor?
Thank you!
Right, easiest to shoot in HLG mode since you can view a clip on your cell phone in HDR without doing any editing by attaching to an email or uploading to a cloud site and downloading. Are you on a Mac or PC?
You could get the BenQ HDR model, or if you have the space, perhaps consider an LG 42" C3 OLED display for color grading HDR Video...and you'll need a Black Magic DeckLink 4K Mini if you're on a PC (it requires an internal X1 PCIe slot) or one of their devices that connects via Thunderbolt if on a Mac. The grading monitor will connect directly to one of these interfaces. Even so, a lot less money and can be dialed in to be very accurate with Calman Home for LG software and one of the Calibrite Display Pro HL calibrators. I don't think the Spyder works well with Calman but might be worth checking with them.
Adobe Lightroom Classic can work with HDR images now, but again, you ideally need an HDR monitor to view the result. The Z8 can shoot stills in an HLG tone mode and those can processed in Lightroom and then used as stills in a video in HDR mode...the results can be quite good, but the workflow is not as straightforward as it could be due to Resolve not recognizing some of the newer HDR stills formats, though you can directly import HLG HIF files from a Z8. Unfortunately, the Z9 does not yet support HLG HIF files, though you can shoot raw and edit in Lightroom to HDR spec's...it's just more work.
As for screen sharing stills, an HLG format HDR photo will look washed out and flat if viewed on an SDR monitor unless the viewing app remaps the image to SDR if it's running on an SDR display. The Movies and TV app in Win 11 does this pretty well with videos, but not yet with stills...I suspect Macs will deal with this in a reasonable way, since I believe they support the HEIF format natively.
This link is to still photos assembled into an HDR video. These photos were originally shot in RAW, not HIF, since I didn't have the Z8 at the time these were taken. They were not optimized for HDR in Lightroom at the time, so I did some quick editing of the original RAW files for HDR Colorspace and Gamma...not ideal, but a good test of what can be done.
https://vimeo.com/881956505?share=copy
You could get the BenQ HDR model, or if you have the space, perhaps consider an LG 42" C3 OLED display for color grading HDR Video...and you'll need a Black Magic DeckLink 4K Mini if you're on a PC (it requires an internal X1 PCIe slot) or one of their devices that connects via Thunderbolt if on a Mac. The grading monitor will connect directly to one of these interfaces. Even so, a lot less money and can be dialed in to be very accurate with Calman Home for LG software and one of the Calibrite Display Pro HL calibrators. I don't think the Spyder works well with Calman but might be worth checking with them.
Adobe Lightroom Classic can work with HDR images now, but again, you ideally need an HDR monitor to view the result. The Z8 can shoot stills in an HLG tone mode and those can processed in Lightroom and then used as stills in a video in HDR mode...the results can be quite good, but the workflow is not as straightforward as it could be due to Resolve not recognizing some of the newer HDR stills formats, though you can directly import HLG HIF files from a Z8. Unfortunately, the Z9 does not yet support HLG HIF files, though you can shoot raw and edit in Lightroom to HDR spec's...it's just more work.
As for screen sharing stills, an HLG format HDR photo will look washed out and flat if viewed on an SDR monitor unless the viewing app remaps the image to SDR if it's running on an SDR display. The Movies and TV app in Win 11 does this pretty well with videos, but not yet with stills...I suspect Macs will deal with this in a reasonable way, since I believe they support the HEIF format natively.
This link is to still photos assembled into an HDR video. These photos were originally shot in RAW, not HIF, since I didn't have the Z8 at the time these were taken. They were not optimized for HDR in Lightroom at the time, so I did some quick editing of the original RAW files for HDR Colorspace and Gamma...not ideal, but a good test of what can be done.
https://vimeo.com/881956505?share=copy
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The flowers is WOW
Thank you for the info.
I am working on a self built PC win 11.
I currently have a 3080 with 12Gig ram driving my 2 monitor’s calibrated to Adobe 1998.
What’s the reason we need the black magic card?
Our main use-case is editing stills in ACR, Photoshop. Then converting to sRGB to deliver for the client JPEGs.
When a customer orders prints, we send it to WHCC in sRGB or 1998 color space. Or when we print bigger fine art prints its for sure 1998.
I’m curious if HDR is only a thing for screen with ultra bright displays, or it can be printed as well? If HDR is only for video, I don’t want to mess with the calibration, although the BenQ can store 2 user calibration profiles.
The LG 42” C3 OLED monitor, can display full Adobe1998?
P.s. Isn’t LED becoming less bright over time? I have this we my dining room ceiling spotlights.
Thank you for the info.
I am working on a self built PC win 11. Likewise here...
I currently have a 3080 with 12Gig ram driving my 2 monitor’s calibrated to Adobe 1998. Your GPU will be fine, but with video editing, there is no such thing as too much CPU, GPU or memory!Also, Adobe 1998 is irrelevant in the video world...the two color gamuts that are most relevant are BT.709 for SDR and BT.2020 for HDR, though most displays provide a subset of BT.2020 that is used in Digital Cinema which is DCI-P3.
What’s the reason we need the black magic card? DaVinci Resolve is able to output a clean feed to the grading display that bypasses any color management that is part of the underlying OS (Windows). The DaVinci Resolve application GUI and display of scopes, etc. is not set up for HDR monitors and runs in SDR mode under windows, so the idea is to provide an unmolested HDMI or SDI feed to the grading display for most accurate color and gamma.
Our main use-case is editing stills in ACR, Photoshop. Then converting to sRGB to deliver for the client JPEGs.
When a customer orders prints, we send it to WHCC in sRGB or 1998 color space. Or when we print bigger fine art prints its for sure 1998.
I’m curious if HDR is only a thing for screen with ultra bright displays, or it can be printed as well? If HDR is only for video, I don’t want to mess with the calibration, although the BenQ can store 2 user calibration profiles. I have not printed any HDR images, so I can't speak to that...a conversation to have with your printer. I would think that there may be some slight benefit possible in tone mapping, but the dynamic range is set by the lighting in the viewing environment, the print density, material printed on and such. HDR does have a much wider color gamut than sRGB, but similar to Adobe 1998. For my own setup, I have a 32" 4K Dell display calibrated for sRGB, Adobe 1998, DCI-P3 and BT.709 and that's my main photo and video editing display for stills and the Resolve main GUI. I have a secondary 27" LG 2560x1440 display that is calibrated for sRGB and serves as a secondary display for video editing that has my "Scopes" display on it...Waveform, Vectorscope, Gamut, Histogram in a quad split. The LG OLED only shows the clean feed video in SDR or HDR depending on what I'm working on. I only view that when I'm doing color grading...when working with clips, evaluating, assembling/trimming on a timeline or working with audio, that is happening in the main GUI on my 32" monitor, so I don't even need to have the grading monitor on as I can see what I need to see in the main GUI.