How Much Tripod for 800mm?

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Copernicron

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Hi everyone. I've been using a discontinued Gitzo 3530LS with Markins TH-300 hub and Markins Q10 ball head as my big tripod for ten years now and it's never let me down. However, I picked up the Nikon 800mm pf a few months ago to get more reach when birding and I'm wondering if my tripod is big enough or if I should get something bigger. I've also been eyeing the Acratech long lens head as a possible alternative to something like a gimbal simply because it's smaller and lighter for travel. I've been able to find manufacturer's weight ratings for things but no one seems to offer a guideline for what focal lengths you should use with specific heads or legs. Does anyone have any advice?
 
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I'm not aware/have never seen any such guidelines. Everything I've ever heard/read etc are general recommendations based on what type of photography etc. And of course the weight specification of the tripod. In general heavier tripods are more stable and do a better job of damping vibration. That's been historic conventional wisdom and is sound physics. However with the 800PF(and most newer lenses) you can engage VR when using on a tripod. So it's not as important/necessary to lug a heavy pod. IMO the most important aspect of the pod are ergonomics to fit the shooter or specific requirements for travel etc.
 
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My RRS 24L + Flexshooter mini holds my Z9+800pf without issue. Nothing wrong with a series three tripod, but it's not needed for shooting stills IMO.
 

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The manufacturers publish all kinds of numbers regarding weight and most of them are useless. Try what you currently have and see where the weak points (if any) are. One thing you might consider is a gimble style head or adding a Wimberly Sidekick to your ball head.
 
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The tripod you have will continue to work perfectly with the 5.2 lb 800mm PF lens. The older Gitzo are better made than their newer tripods where they are using weaker parts to reduce production costs.

With a long lens my concern is torsional rigidity at the tripod spider that connects the legs. Too much play and any wind will cause problems with lens and camera stability. With a new tripod purchase I put my weight on the legs to see if they flex at all and then rotate a lens with the head locked to see if their is any movement at the top connection for the legs. I purchased a Giottos tripod and I liked how they put relative inch markings on the legs that made it easy and fast to adjust for height. The spider however had a good deal of play that allowed rotational movement of the camera and telephoto lens and so I returned it to B&H.

Newer lenses tend to have the center of their weight place further back which makes them easier to manage when shooting hand held but also means they place less stress on the head and tripod legs. My first 600mm f/4 weighed more than 13 lbs as compared to 5 lbs for my 800mm PF. Lens optical stabilization is also much improved with the in-camera stabilization found with today's mirrorless cameras.
 
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from my limited experience with good tripods/heads, the weakest point in term of steadiness is the head, not so much the tripod itself. My quite heavy (5kg) lens does wobble on many heads but not on the wimberley gimball, despite it adds yet another 1.4kg to the mix.
 
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It's sounding like the legs should be just fine for the 800 pf which I mostly shoot with the Z9. I have found some difficulties using a ball head for birds though unless I flop it on its side and use it kind of like a gimbal. At that point it's pretty steady but then the whole thing is too short unless I hunch over. I fly fairly regularly back to BC and love to bring my camera for shooting wildlife so I like my gear to be reasonably compact for travel. What kind of head should I look at? The Acratech Long Lens Head, Wimberley Sidekick, and Wimberly WH-200 Sidemount all look fairly small for packing.

My local options are fairly limited. I can find a Sirui PH-20 locally but that's it. Anything else and I'd have to drive more than an hour or just order from the US.
 
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Copernicron said:
Does anyone have any advice?
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Start with a moderate speed ISO using whatever tripod long lens technique you use of a very fine detail subject, gradually stop down the aperture to increase the shutter speed and work out what your slowest safe shutter speed is.

If you decide you want more tripod damping get a hopefully better performing tripod from a source with a good return policy, test it, and see how much - if any - improvement you get.
 
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You didn’t indicate which body you are using. I have found the Z9 /Z8 doesn’t require near as heavy a tripod as DLSR,s or other mirrorless camera’s with a shutter. On the DLSR’s you have to contend with the mirror slap, and the shutter. I have downsized from a Gitzo series 5 to a series 4 for my long len (600/840). The series 4 is probably a bit of over kill. I would be hesitant to use a ball head because of the “flop“ when loosening the head to follow moving subjects, or just moving around..That is just annoying. I have pretty much stopped using my Gitzo 35 & BH-55 head and use a series 1/BH-30, and series 2/BH-40 with my Z8 for everything else. With no shutter, or mirror there isn’t any vibrations introduced.
 
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Copernicron said:
Hi everyone. I've been using a discontinued Gitzo 3530LS with Markins TH-300 hub and Markins Q10 ball head as my big tripod for ten years now and it's never let me down. However, I picked up the Nikon 800mm pf a few months ago to get more reach when birding and I'm wondering if my tripod is big enough or if I should get something bigger. I've also been eyeing the Acratech long lens head as a possible alternative to something like a gimbal simply because it's smaller and lighter for travel. I've been able to find manufacturer's weight ratings for things but no one seems to offer a guideline for what focal lengths you should use with specific heads or legs. Does anyone have any advice?
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My wildlife choice is a Really Right Stuff series 3 with a Wimberley gimbal head accompanied with a Really Right Stuff long lens support. For landscapes I still use my manfrotto that, was replaced by my RRS. Sirui ball head sits on top. Just wish that I would have bought the RRS from the beginning, would’ve saved $$. For birds I would definitely go with a gimbal. For want sits on top of the RRS; D850, D4 and now a Z9. Largest Lens is a 600F4 G.
 
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I have the SIrui SR-3004 Aluminum tripod with a 75mm bowl 4 section for my Z9+800PF. The Tripod is 33 or 34mm legs, load capacity is 55 pounds. It's $399 but regularly runs on sale for under $300 (got mine on sale for $260 on Amazon. I don't really use a tripod other then for video as I hand hold all the time. The Sirui bowl is like $120 but this 3rd party bowl adapter is just $18 and works like a charm and is perfect for use with a Gimbal or a video fluid head.


 
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I use a Leofoto 323 CS with gimbal on a 75mm base for heavier rigs

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Since you’re already happy with it, the simple answer is try it and see if you’re happy with it. If you find it wanting then it’s time to go shopping.
 
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Copernicron said:
Hi everyone. I've been using a discontinued Gitzo 3530LS with Markins TH-300 hub and Markins Q10 ball head as my big tripod for ten years now and it's never let me down. However, I picked up the Nikon 800mm pf a few months ago to get more reach when birding and I'm wondering if my tripod is big enough or if I should get something bigger. I've also been eyeing the Acratech long lens head as a possible alternative to something like a gimbal simply because it's smaller and lighter for travel. I've been able to find manufacturer's weight ratings for things but no one seems to offer a guideline for what focal lengths you should use with specific heads or legs. Does anyone have any advice?
Click to expand...
You should be fine with your set up. I've used a Gitzo Series 3 tripod (3541L) for years for D8xx bodies and 7lb+ 500mm f/4 lenses/TCs and been very happy. I too use a Markins Q10 ballhead. I like it for it's relatively small size and weight but excellent strength.

I now own a 800 PF lens, but rarely use it on a tripod as I find it very handholdable. However, even with a Z9, it's substantially lighter than the 500mm f/4s, so your tripod and ball should work with no problem. As someone else suggested, if you shoot BIF, make sure you have some type of gimbal mechanism. I've always used a Wimberly sidekick with the Markins ballhead for gimbal action.
 
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When using the bare Z 800 mm PF, I usually shoot handheld. I normally use a tripod if I add a Z TC, usually the Z 1.4 x TC. I usually use the Z 800 mm PF with my Z9 rather than my Z8.

As to the tripod, I’ve used an RRS TVC 24L MK II. I’ve tried it with a an RRS BH-55 and with a Flexshooter Pro. With the Z9 and Z 800 mm PF, I prefer the Flexshooter Pro. The tripod seems to handle the Z9 and Z 800 mm PF, including with the Z 1.4 x TC and Z 2 x TC, well. Perhaps there might be issues in windy conditions.
 
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The 800mm PF is relatively light and easily supported by a 3 series Gitzo. I have a 3 series RRS tripod and it's for supporting a much heavier 600mm f/4 lens - but also does a nice job with lighter gear. The RRS 2 series would be equivalent to the Gitzo 3 series and be adequate.

My take it it's the length of the lens that creates a challenge with balance and vibration. It's very important to use good long lens technique with a hand across the lens barrel. If you have windy conditions - 10 mph and more - pay close attention to any potential vibration. Remove the hood if necessary or use a shorter Zemlin hood. Also be careful about camera or lens straps blowing in wind. Physically long lenses can create a trampoline type effect with vibration continuing for 5 seconds or more.

A good gimbal head is very handy with the 800mm PF. While it can be used with the Sidekick and a good ballhead, that combination is borderline and potentially hard to handle. I would only use the lens alone on a ballhead for emergency or occasional use.

Don't skimp on support. I've seen someone terribly frustrated with a new 500mm f/4 lens only to find out the problem was their Jobu Jr. gimbal and cheap tripod. You could see visible movement of the lens barrel which prevented sharp images at 100 yards and longer. If you are wondering about stability, get a cheap laser pointer and tape it to the lens barrel or hood. You'll quickly see just how much vibration you have. With a good tripod and head, you should see minimal vibration or movement.
 
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Thanks everyone for the help. I ended up adding a Leofoto levelling base to my Gitzo and getting a Sirui PH-30 gimbal. My main use case for this setup is birds and hopefully this is going to make it a lot easier come spring when they come back. I'm also going to try out the side mount clamp to see how I like that when compared to the regular gimbal arm. I wanted the option since removing the arm and using it side mount should save a bit of weight when travelling. The added height from the base and the gimbal also makes it a lot easier to get the camera up to eye level on uneven ground. That's something I had some difficulty with using a plain ball head on it in the past. I'm also going to give it a try with the 500 PF even though that lens is very light and hand holdable just to see if I like it.

The main difficulty I find hand holding the 800mm PF is the length. I had the 200-500 f5.6 a few years ago which is almost the exact same weight and I had a much easier time hand holding that one in comparison because it was a shorter lens.
 
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