I'm sure you've heard it before: Upgrade from a Z7 or buy Z lenses

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Owen Kane

Owen Kane

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Hello all, It has been a few years since I last posted. But COVID-19 and a side swipe by a Drunk Driver sidelined my Photography for a few years. I'm now raring to go and have a simple question. I purchased the Z7 in May of 2020, and besides Autofocus Issues, it is not a bad camera, in my opinion.

That said, I am considering two options as follows

Option 1: upgrading to a Z8 - Better AutoFocus - Birds and image quality (or so I am told) and continuing to use my Full Frame NikonAF-S VR lenses and Sigma 100 to 500 zoom collection. And sell the Z7 (body only) for about $1200.00 CDN

Or

Option 2: As I have no Z lenses, hold off on upgrading to the Z8 until later this year and purchase a Nikon NIKKOR Z 400mm f/4.5 VR S Lens.

Please help me make my mind up and vote for Option 1 or 2; other suggestions are welcome. (I am sort of leading towards the Z8 Body)
 
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John Navitsky said:
what you want to shoot will really drive this

if you are shooting birds, having a better body may be a good idea, however the 400 4.5, as much as i love it, may be a bit short. other options include the 600pf and the 180-600
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Thanks, John. I appreciate your feedback. I never thought of the 180 - 600. That's certainly within the budget.
 
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I’d agree with others in that getting good z glass would be my priority….indeed it was for me! I used a z6 for many years and really didn’t have a lot of trouble focussing on birds in flight. i never had AF to do that before….its just practice .
once you’ve got the lens, then get the camera. If it means a wait, well and good as the mark 3 z6 or even z7iii may be out
 
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I say this all the time. Get the level of gear that gets out of your way of getting the shots you want. If you shot Landscapes and portraits then I would get the glass. since you say you shoot birds, that requires better AF as in any fast action or wildlife, then no glass will improve that, get a Z8 or Z9.

You're already mentioning AF issues so that would tell me the body is your bigger need to upgrade. There is nothing more frustrating then shooting a burst and only getting 30-40% of them in focus and missing focus on the what would have been the best image of the lot. The body will have more to do with that then glass
 
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To me, it's all about subject matter or genre. If you are photographing action, the new cameras and subject detection can make a big difference. But for portraits, events, landscapes, macro and other still photography, the lenses would be more important. Even when it comes to action, there is a difference between fast predictable action and erratic action. Sometimes technique is the solution rather than new gear.

With my equestrian work, the big change using the Z6/7 was I needed to start my burst slightly sooner. But with a short, fast burst, my number of perfectly timed images went up and my AF keeper rate remained very high. I also changed AF area mode from Group to Wide - a minor change. My keeper rate remained around 95% but the images were more likely to be perfectly timed due to the high frame rate. Upgrading to a Z8 makes almost no difference.

With bird photography - especially shorebirds and wading birds - the direction of the bird makes a huge difference. I want the light and the wind at my back so the bird approaches flying into the wind with good light. When they land, they land into the wind and the light. When they rest, they face into the wind and the light. Technique allows a high success rate. But if I was trying to photograph subjects moving across the frame, the slower readout of the Z6/Z7 makes it extremely difficult to follow the subject in real time. The lag and EVF blackout make a difference. If you add erratic flight, the keeper rate goes way down. Practice can help some, but what you really want is to be selective about the wind and light so the subject is flying toward the camera. But a new camera with no blackout and a fast EVF refresh is a big help.

Normally, I would choose glass over a new camera body. The Z7 is good enough for high keeper rates unless you truly need subject detection and fast readout for fast action and it's a significant portion of what you photograph. Based on your question, I suspect new glass would be better and would wait for a Z7iii or future time for a camera upgrade.
 
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Glass is a lot of time the better recommendation…but if you’re primarily or mostly a wildlife shooter the Z8 will make a bigger difference than the Z glass will. And besides what you want to shoot…you need to consider physical abilities, what sort of wildlife, and output/display preferences. While no one will dispute that the primes are better than the zooms at 2:1 in LR…if primary output is to the screen or medium sized prints the output sharpness and IQ are a lot closer than 2:1 peeping would indicate and in my view outside of bokeh differences based on aperture the screen output is ‘different more than ‘better or worse‘. If you’re doing birds…the 400 is going to be mostly too short in my experience…hence why mine is likely going up for sale here. The 600PF is more usable at least here in FL…and even it gets the TC more often than not with the 180-600 on the other Z8.

My Z9 is on the way to MPB for sale…and having used all of the Z telephotos except the exotics which I don’t have for more weight/size than cost reasons…if I was starting Z lens buys now from scratch for wildlife I would buy the 600PF, 180-600, and the 1.4TC and 2 Z8s…and in fact if the Z8 and Z9 had both been available at the same launch I would not have gotten the Z9. I upgraded from a Z7II for the AF and frame rate for wildlife. For me the 800 gets into too big and heavy as compared to the 600PF and TC and while I can’t deny the former is probably better pixel peeping the latter is plenty good enough…and better is always the enemy of good enough IMO.
 
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I recently got into more birding at a few spots in my area. After a lot of self analysis I decided to trade in my Z7ii for a Z8 and the tracking for birds is awesome. Now I have a 180-600 on order and will sell my 100-400S when I get that. Juggling my low budget means I can't keep everything but as mostly a hobbyist the 180-600 will get me closer to the birds. I have some nice shots with the 100-400 shot in crop mode but soon I will have more options to get close.
I mention self anaysis because we all have different reasons for photography. At my age I enjoy and need the long walks. I only showoff my shots on Instagram for family and friends. I don't sell shots that need to be tack sharp and unique so expensive glass would be nice but not justified.
Do what you feel is good for you and don't look back, enjoy it.
Best to All,
Vinny
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There are reports that the Z6iii (and possibly Z7iii) will be announced in two weeks. If this happens, value for Z7ii bodies will go down and for Z7 bodies as well. In light of this, I would advise selling your Z7 today! If you can get $1200 Canadian I would grab it, because I am pretty sure you will not get that once the version iii bodies are announced. I use the Z8 and it is fantastic.
 
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Good News—The family accountant decided she wanted the Z7 and purchased the Z8 for me this morning. My daughters and Son have agreed to provide the funds for the 180 to 600 for my birthday. The Lord gifted me with a wonderful family.

It will be 3 to 4 weeks before the camera and lens arrive, so there will be lots of YTV to watch.
 
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Owen Kane said:
Good News—The family accountant decided she wanted the Z7 and purchased the Z8 for me this morning. My daughters and Son have agreed to provide the funds for the 180 to 600 for my birthday. The Lord gifted me with a wonderful family.

It will be 3 to 4 weeks before the camera and lens arrive, so there will be lots of YTV to watch.
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Congrats! That will be my birding setup as of Monday when my 180-600 arrives. I have had a sturdy Bogen monopod for 40 years so I'm all set.
Vinny (y)
 
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Owen Kane said:
Good News—The family accountant decided she wanted the Z7 and purchased the Z8 for me this morning. My daughters and Son have agreed to provide the funds for the 180 to 600 for my birthday. The Lord gifted me with a wonderful family.

It will be 3 to 4 weeks before the camera and lens arrive, so there will be lots of YTV to watch.
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You'll both be very happy with the results. Congratulations!
 
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EricBowles said:
With bird photography - especially shorebirds and wading birds - the direction of the bird makes a huge difference. I want the light and the wind at my back so the bird approaches flying into the wind with good light. When they land, they land into the wind and the light. When they rest, they face into the wind and the light. Technique allows a high success rate. But if I was trying to photograph subjects moving across the frame, the slower readout of the Z6/Z7 makes it extremely difficult to follow the subject in real time. The lag and EVF blackout make a difference. If you add erratic flight, the keeper rate goes way down. Practice can help some, but what you really want is to be selective about the wind and light so the subject is flying toward the camera. But a new camera with no blackout and a fast EVF refresh is a big help.
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That is excellent advice, and it is something I will remember for the future.
 
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Owen Kane said:
That is excellent advice, and it is something I will remember for the future.
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It's important enough that for shorebirds I plan where I'm going to photograph - and whether or not I'm even going to photograph birds in a particular location based solely on the wind and sun angle. If the wind and sun are from the same direction, every exposure is the same and every subject is facing the camera. If the wind is the opposite direction from the sun, every image is either a bird butt or backlit depending on your direction. Backlighting is fine if you want silhouettes or rimlight, but just realize 90% of your shots will be silhouettes. Don't fight the light and wind.

There is a good app called Windy that helps with the wind direction.
 
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EricBowles said:
It's important enough that for shorebirds I plan where I'm going to photograph - and whether or not I'm even going to photograph birds in a particular location based solely on the wind and sun angle. If the wind and sun are from the same direction, every exposure is the same and every subject is facing the camera. If the wind is the opposite direction from the sun, every image is either a bird butt or backlit depending on your direction. Backlighting is fine if you want silhouettes or rimlight, but just realize 90% of your shots will be silhouettes. Don't fight the light and wind.

There is a good app called Windy that helps with the wind direction.
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Windy, ahh, for sure. Have used Windy for quite a few years.
 
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Owen Kane said:
Hello all, It has been a few years since I last posted. But COVID-19 and a side swipe by a Drunk Driver sidelined my Photography for a few years. I'm now raring to go and have a simple question. I purchased the Z7 in May of 2020, and besides Autofocus Issues, it is not a bad camera, in my opinion.

That said, I am considering two options as follows

Option 1: upgrading to a Z8 - Better AutoFocus - Birds and image quality (or so I am told) and continuing to use my Full Frame NikonAF-S VR lenses and Sigma 100 to 500 zoom collection. And sell the Z7 (body only) for about $1200.00 CDN

Or

Option 2: As I have no Z lenses, hold off on upgrading to the Z8 until later this year and purchase a Nikon NIKKOR Z 400mm f/4.5 VR S Lens.

Please help me make my mind up and vote for Option 1 or 2; other suggestions are welcome. (I am sort of leading towards the Z8 Body)
Click to expand...
Cameras outdate but glass is forever... 🦘
 
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Yes, glass is forever, and the Z lens 180 to 600 is fantastic, below photo handheld. For my Z7, the next step is to raise the aperture up a step or two to get a better depth of field.


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The Z8 has greatly improved autofocus which is invaluable when photographing small subjects in the bush. However a photo of stationary bird or other subject out in the open it is still practical to use manual autofocus override to get the sharp focus on the critical feature.

I would look at getting the 180-600mm zoom lens now and adding the Z8 camera later. A Z8 without Z lenses provides nothing for your photography efforts.
 
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I just got back from Yellowstone where I got great pics from my Z7 and 500mm PF. The Z8 and Z9 are better cameras, but the Z7 with F mount lenses is perfectly adequate for wildlife. I‘ve posted several pics I took with that combo in the Wildlife Presentation sub forum.
 
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