Incident angle of light

[Robert S]

I have been photographing Frogmouths since 13th April. The Frogmouths roost during the day. They take up the same position and are facing east [ near enough ].
13th April:
Used Canon R7 with Sigma 150-600 C 1.4 Converter from approx 35m. I was facing due west, time was approx 3.00pm.

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14th April:
I used a Canon 5Ds with Sigma 120-300, the time was approx 10.30am. Distance was approx 5m.

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16th April:
Yesterday I used a Canon R7 with a Sigma 70-200. The photo was taken at 4.50pm [ near enough ].I was able to get within 3m of the Frogmouth. I was hoping it would open its eyes but it was happy enough to keep them closed.

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I know that there are a lot of variables involved, not least of which is me, however it seems to me that the angle of incidence of the light hitting the bird has a major effect on the end result.

I enjoy looking at the photos posted here and the image quality of them.

When you take your photos is the angle of incidence something that you take into consideration?

If anyone is interested I am happy to provide the original raw type photos.

 

[jfredrick]

Super interesting bird! Nocturnal birds can be tricky to photograph. Especially if they blend into the bark on a tree. I'm sure light amount, type and the angle of light has a lot to do with a successful shot...

 

[DRwyoming]

Very nice images of a tough bird to photograph!

When you take your photos is the angle of incidence something that you take into consideration?

Absolutely, but perhaps more importantly I think about the quality of the light as in: direct sunlit, diffused but still directional and casting light shadows or heavily diffused and not casting shadows or sometimes indirectly lit when shooting into the shade. But sure when the light is directional enough to cast even soft shadows I do think about the direction and how I'll approach a subject for backlit, side-lit (great for bringing out texture and detail) or front lit and those of course are generalities as front lit might mean sun pretty far off my shoulder or directly behind me depending on the situation.

I'd say your images show a pretty wide range of light quality from heavily diffused to more direct lighting in that second shot in addition to any changes in the light's direction. The changing light quality is visible in the background leaves as much as the bird's feather detail.

 

[Robert S]

Super interesting bird! Nocturnal birds can be tricky to photograph. Especially if they blend into the bark on a tree. I'm sure light amount, type and the angle of light has a lot to do with a successful shot...

Thanks John. Appreciate the reply.

 

[Robert S]

Very nice images of a tough bird to photograph!

Absolutely, but perhaps more importantly I think about the quality of the light as in: direct sunlit, diffused but still directional and casting light shadows or heavily diffused and not casting shadows or sometimes indirectly lit when shooting into the shade. But sure when the light is directional enough to cast even soft shadows I do think about the direction and how I'll approach a subject for backlit, side-lit (great for bringing out texture and detail) or front lit and those of course are generalities as front lit might mean sun pretty far off my shoulder or directly behind me depending on the situation.

I'd say your images show a pretty wide range of light quality from heavily diffused to more direct lighting in that second shot in addition to any changes in the light's direction. The changing light quality is visible in the background leaves as much as the bird's feather detail.

Thanks Dave. I checked both cameras as to White Balance. I had the R7 set to daylight, I changed it to AWB. The 5Ds was already set to AWB. Am I right in thinking that when set to AWB the camera is setting the colour temp to suite the ambient colour temp? I tend to get lost when reading manuals.

 

[Len Shepherd]

They take up the same position and are facing east [ near enough ].
I have been photographing Frogmouths since 13th April. The Frogmouths roost during the day. They take up the same position and are facing east [ near enough ].

Have you done research into why they might normally roost facing East?
Could this be because of a prevailing westerly wind?

 

[DRwyoming]

Thanks Dave. I checked both cameras as to White Balance. I had the R7 set to daylight, I changed it to AWB. The 5Ds was already set to AWB. Am I right in thinking that when set to AWB the camera is setting the colour temp to suite the ambient colour temp? I tend to get lost when reading manuals.

Yes, most modern cameras handle automatic white balance quite well.

To be clear, when I'm talking 'light quality' I'm not talking about color cast nor white balance. I'm talking about the harshness or softness of light which generally maps to time of day or whether light is direct as in direct sunlight or diffused through: clouds, fog, smoke, falling snow, tree leaves, etc. Direct midday light tends to be high contrast and can be harsh and diffused light can be a bit or a lot softer.

Ideally I like to shoot near the edges of day or in bright overcast or thin cloud conditions that maintain some directionality to the light (shadows are still cast) but it's still softened quite a bit compared to direct sunlight (any shadows are a lot soften than direct sunlit shadows). Lacking that I'll often shoot into the shadows which is even softer but often not great for bringing out a lot of subtle detail like textures the way a bit of directional light can.

Light direction as you point out can make or break an image but the quality and relative hardness or softness of light can often be even more important.

 

[Robert S]

Thanks for the post Len. Winds tend to be out of the west or north west when it blows hard. However can come from the east. Then again we are coming into autumn and the nights are cold [ 10-12 C ] so maybe they want to warm up during the day. I might save up and get a weather station. Something extra to fill the day.

 

[Robert S]

Yes, most modern cameras handle automatic white balance quite well.

To be clear, when I'm talking 'light quality' I'm not talking about color cast nor white balance. I'm talking about the harshness or softness of light which generally maps to time of day or whether light is direct as in direct sunlight or diffused through: clouds, fog, smoke, falling snow, tree leaves, etc. Direct midday light tends to be high contrast and can be harsh and diffused light can be a bit or a lot softer.

Ideally I like to shoot near the edges of day or in bright overcast or thin cloud conditions that maintain some directionality to the light (shadows are still cast) but it's still softened quite a bit compared to direct sunlight (any shadows are a lot soften than direct sunlit shadows). Lacking that I'll often shoot into the shadows which is even softer but often not great for bringing out a lot of subtle detail like textures the way a bit of directional light can.

Light direction as you point out can make or break an image but the quality and relative hardness or softness of light can often be even more important.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Dave. Much appreciated. I will go down the paddock late afternoon and get some more shots with the R7.

 

[Robert S]

Just went to check on them and they were not there. When they were roosting next to the granny flat there would be days when they didn't visit. Hopefully they will return.

 

[Len Shepherd]

Thanks for the post Len. Winds tend to be out of the west or north west when it blows hard. However can come from the east. Then again we are coming into autumn and the nights are cold [ 10-12 C ] so maybe they want to warm up during the day.

My reason for asking is that it has only relatively recently been realised that small mammals such as mice are nocturnal because they lose less body heat sleeping during the daytime.

If these birds sleep in the daytime facing the prevailing winds on a tree at about 45 degrees to the wind it makes them easier to locate despite their camourflage and also easier to predict the light direction that can be important in more successful photography.

 

[Robert S]

My reason for asking is that it has only relatively recently been realised that small mammals such as mice are nocturnal because they lose less body heat sleeping during the daytime.

If these birds sleep in the daytime facing the prevailing winds on a tree at about 45 degrees to the wind it makes them easier to locate despite their camourflage and also easier to predict the light direction that can be important in more successful photography.

Thanks for your post Len. I think you have it right about body heat. The Frogmouths being active at night will generate their own body heat. During the day they will find a roost that is sheltered but getting full sun.

I have adjusted the WB on the last photo of the three I posted the colours are now much the same as the photo taken with the 5Ds which was set to AWB:

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[Robert S]

Update: Just checked and they are back. I stayed back, 15m, and observed with binoculars for about a minute. The bird is now further into the bush by about half a meter. No good reason for trying to photograph them.

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

Lovely pix !

 

[Robert S]

Glad you like them Elsa.

 

[O]

I have been photographing Frogmouths since 13th April. The Frogmouths roost during the day. They take up the same position and are facing east [ near enough ].
13th April:
Used Canon R7 with Sigma 150-600 C 1.4 Converter from approx 35m. I was facing due west, time was approx 3.00pm.

View attachment 59246

14th April:
I used a Canon 5Ds with Sigma 120-300, the time was approx 10.30am. Distance was approx 5m.

View attachment 59247

16th April:
Yesterday I used a Canon R7 with a Sigma 70-200. The photo was taken at 4.50pm [ near enough ].I was able to get within 3m of the Frogmouth. I was hoping it would open its eyes but it was happy enough to keep them closed.

View attachment 59248

I know that there are a lot of variables involved, not least of which is me, however it seems to me that the angle of incidence of the light hitting the bird has a major effect on the end result.

I enjoy looking at the photos posted here and the image quality of them.

When you take your photos is the angle of incidence something that you take into consideration?

If anyone is interested I am happy to provide the original raw type photos.

Fascinating birds, nice shots, angle's add power especially in model shoots and poses, isn't it natural to see them at an angle ?

Only an opinion

 

[Robert S]

Fascinating birds, nice shots, angle's add power especially in model shoots and poses, isn't it natural to see them at an angle ?

Only an opinion

Yes and no but then quite possibly maybe.