Lightroom Export Competition Questions?

[markymark]

I'm quite a novice when it comes to Lightroom & editing so please excuse the questions if they seem to be obvious to many out there, but I'm really stuck & need some help understanding this.

I was recently tempted to enter an image into a competition & they requested the following;

The image submitted had to be in J-peg format saved at a high quality setting of 1920 pixels along the longest edge. ( I managed to do this but was just wondering what they meant by 'High Quality Setting?)

They then requested the following;

The RAW files (eg: ARW, CR2/3, NEF,, ORF,PEF, etc) or original untouched J-pegs (with a range of 'before & after' original untouched J-peg files). DNG files are only permitted if this is the native RAW format of the camera.
High resolution files (preferably TIFF) required for printing should be 8-bit, Adobe RGB (1998) at full resolution & match the colour & cropping of the J-peg submitted at entry. Please do not upscale files must not exceed 500mb. (Not having done anything like this before was completely lost & obviously didn't get to send them the information they requested & subsequently went no further in the completion.)

After I import the images I'm assuming that Lightroom automatically converts them into TIFF files (is that correct?).

Then what I normally do is make adjustments to the original image but then can't understand how to revert to the untouched original? or if I make a copy of that image, should I then go back & crop the original to match the edited version? I am completely lost & out of my depth when it comes to this side of it & am desperate to get my head round it so that I don't have the same problem next time.

Can anyone guide me through the process of how to do what they requested & what I did wrong?
thanks in advance for your cooperation, help & patience.

 

[DRwyoming]

Can anyone guide me through the process of how to do what they requested & what I did wrong?

For the JPEGs, just export them as you are doing, in terms of high quality JPEG, set the quality slider to 8 through 10.

But for the RAW files, you don't export them from LR, just copy them from your storage location and send them unedited to the competition judges.

Also, FWIW, LR doesn't change the RAW file on import and actually doesn't 'import' the file at all in the sense that importing just creates a catalog lookup entry to tell LR where to find the original RAW file in storage (e.g. on storage disk or in the cloud depending on how you're set up and whether you use LR or LR Classic). But that RAW file isn't changed as you make edits and is the actual file from the camera.

And of course for the large size TIFF, just do another export of the fully edited image in TIFF format.

Generally the point of sending in RAW files in contests is to demonstrate that the file wasn't edited in ways that aren't legal under the contest rules so it's a way to check that there aren't excessive image composites or other things that may not be allowed under the rules. From this standpoint the contest judges don't want another version of the fully edited file which is what you'd get if you use LR's export capability. What they generally want is the unedited RAW file straight out of the camera to validate the original image prior to any editing steps. So give them a copy of those RAW files by simply copying those files from your storage folders and uploading them or otherwise transferring them to the contest organizers. When sending in multiple images to a contest where they want a RAW and the edited JPEG plus large TIFF it's best to keep the file names similar so each JPEG and TIFF can be easily matched up to the corresponding RAW file.

[edit] Also, just to be clear since you say you're new to LR. It's fine to use the system tools from your computer (e.g. Finder in a Mac or Windows Explorer) to copy a file from your storage folder and then paste it to another folder for contest upload or paste it directly to an upload site or email. But don't use system tools from the Mac or PC to move files around in your storage folders. That really confuses LR as then the Catalog is no longer accurate as the file has been moved from where LR thinks it should be. IOW, copying a file directly is fine, but if you need to move files around in your storage folders do that using the LR Library module and drag and drop files in the file folders sidebar, don't use the Mac, PC or Linux system tools to move files around or LR won't be able to find them.

 

[aolander]

LR only converts to another format when you export an image. Quality in LR is set by the slider (a %) on the Export page under File Settings > Image Quality. 80-100% would be High Quality. After you've exported the JPEG, go back to you edited image and export again only this time select TIFF under File Settings > Image Format. The exported image will then be a TIFF will all the same edits as the JPEG. To export the RAW file, go to the History Panel and select the very bottom choice which will be the original imported RAW image. Then export that and under File Setting > Image Format select Original. The original RAW (NEF) will be exported with no edits.

 

[Archibald]

To export the RAW file, go to the History Panel and select the very bottom choice which will be the original imported RAW image. Then export that and under File Setting > Image Format select Original. The original RAW (NEF) will be exported with no edits.

Interesting - I never knew you could export the RAW file. But it works (even without going to the bottom of the history). When I tried that, it created an .xmp file alongside. That file is a record of the edit steps.

 

[markymark]

LR only converts to another format when you export an image. Quality in LR is set by the slider (a %) on the Export page under File Settings > Image Quality. 80-100% would be High Quality. After you've exported the JPEG, go back to you edited image and export again only this time select TIFF under File Settings > Image Format. The exported image will then be a TIFF will all the same edits as the JPEG. To export the RAW file, go to the History Panel and select the very bottom choice which will be the original imported RAW image. Then export that and under File Setting > Image Format select Original. The original RAW (NEF) will be exported with no edits.

Thanks for the advice lads, you've explained it really well.
Just a question, if I make a copy of an image & carry out the edits on that but then mistakenly delete the original RAW file (which I did on one occasion!) would that then not be classed as the original or take the place of it?
plus going by what you've said I should always carry out the edits on the original because I can always revert to the original unedited image by just going back into the history panel?

 

[markymark]

Thanks for the advice lads, you've explained it really well.
Just a question, if I make a copy of an image & carry out the edits on that but then mistakenly delete the original RAW file (which I did on one occasion!) would that then not be classed as the original or take the place of it?
plus going by what you've said I should always carry out the edits on the original because I can always revert to the original unedited image by just going back into the history panel

 

[markymark]

For the JPEGs, just export them as you are doing, in terms of high quality JPEG, set the quality slider to 8 through 10.

But for the RAW files, you don't export them from LR, just copy them from your storage location and send them unedited to the competition judges.

Also, FWIW, LR doesn't change the RAW file on import and actually doesn't 'import' the file at all in the sense that importing just creates a catalog lookup entry to tell LR where to find the original RAW file in storage (e.g. on storage disk or in the cloud depending on how you're set up and whether you use LR or LR Classic). But that RAW file isn't changed as you make edits and is the actual file from the camera.

And of course for the large size TIFF, just do another export of the fully edited image in TIFF format.

Generally the point of sending in RAW files in contests is to demonstrate that the file wasn't edited in ways that aren't legal under the contest rules so it's a way to check that there aren't excessive image composites or other things that may not be allowed under the rules. From this standpoint the contest judges don't want another version of the fully edited file which is what you'd get if you use LR's export capability. What they generally want is the unedited RAW file straight out of the camera to validate the original image prior to any editing steps. So give them a copy of those RAW files by simply copying those files from your storage folders and uploading them or otherwise transferring them to the contest organizers. When sending in multiple images to a contest where they want a RAW and the edited JPEG plus large TIFF it's best to keep the file names similar so each JPEG and TIFF can be easily matched up to the corresponding RAW file.

[edit] Also, just to be clear since you say you're new to LR. It's fine to use the system tools from your computer (e.g. Finder in a Mac or Windows Explorer) to copy a file from your storage folder and then paste it to another folder for contest upload or paste it directly to an upload site or email. But don't use system tools from the Mac or PC to move files around in your storage folders. That really confuses LR as then the Catalog is no longer accurate as the file has been moved from where LR thinks it should be. IOW, copying a file directly is fine, but if you need to move files around in your storage folders do that using the LR Library module and drag and drop files in the file folders sidebar, don't use the Mac, PC or Linux system tools to move files around or LR won't be able to find them.

Also on a couple of occasions I've gone to rename a file but a box comes up saying, 'Some photos will not be renamed because they are missing or not writable', what does that mean?

 

[JAJohnson]

Also on a couple of occasions I've gone to rename a file but a box comes up saying, 'Some photos will not be renamed because they are missing or not writable', what does that mean?

Assuming you’re doing this in LrC it means that the catalog entry for the file is longer pointing to the correct location of the file.

However, please explain the conditions under which you’re getting this error message.

 

[JAJohnson]

Thanks for the advice lads, you've explained it really well.
Just a question, if I make a copy of an image & carry out the edits on that but then mistakenly delete the original RAW file (which I did on one occasion!) would that then not be classed as the original or take the place of it?
plus going by what you've said I should always carry out the edits on the original because I can always revert to the original unedited image by just going back into the history panel?

1) If you’re using LrC (Lightroom Classic) copying an image only creates another image with a pointer to the underlying RAW file. If you delete the RAW file, it’s gone unless you have a backup copy.

2) Yes, in LrC you can delete the entire history and see the image without edits. LR & LrC are non-destructive editors because the original image is unchanged. Edits are created as modifications on top of the original image.

 

[Archibald]

Just a question, if I make a copy of an image & carry out the edits on that but then mistakenly delete the original RAW file (which I did on one occasion!) would that then not be classed as the original or take the place of it?

The RAW file is unalterable and is needed to prove the state of the photo as taken.

 

[JAJohnson]

Interesting - I never knew you could export the RAW file. But it works (even without going to the bottom of the history). When I tried that, it created an .xmp file alongside. That file is a record of the edit steps.

LrC does not export RAW files. The RAW files are accessible using the computer’s file system.

Update: As explained by @aolander, I was incorrect.

 

[Archibald]

LrC does not export RAW files. The RAW files are accessible using the computer’s file system.

aolander explained how to export RAW files.

OK, it is not really exported, but it uses LrC's export function. Don't believe us? Try it.

 

[aolander]

LrC does not export RAW files. The RAW files are accessible using the computer’s file system.

It most certainly does, along with an XMP file. And it puts it (a copy basically) in whatever folder you've selected to export it to.

 

[markymark]

Assuming you’re doing this in LrC it means that the catalog entry for the file is longer pointing to the correct location of the file.

However, please explain the conditions under which you’re getting this error message.

When I go into the Library module & try to rename a file then the message comes up.

 

[markymark]

Sorry I may have confused everyone.
The copy is generated when I send the image to Topaz after they carried out the noise reduction.
The image that had the noise reduction carried out when sent back to Lightroom resulted in me having two copies of the same image one with & one without noise reduction.

On about four occasions when I used Topaz I think I've deleted the original which I think would be the reason why I get that message up when I try & rename it!!....... does that sound plausible?

 

[Archibald]

@markymark , you've got to look after your raw files. Rule #1 is to preserve the file and keep a backup. Rule #2 is to let LrC manage the raw file that it is pointing to.

LrC can't rename a file that doesn't exist or that is lost.

You can do a search for the lost file in case it or an exact copy still exists somewhere.

 

[aolander]

Sorry I may have confused everyone.
The copy is generated when I send the image to Topaz after they carried out the noise reduction.
The image that had the noise reduction carried out when sent back to Lightroom resulted in me having two copies of the same image one with & one without noise reduction.

On about four occasions when I used Topaz I think I've deleted the original which I think would be the reason why I get that message up when I try & rename it!!....... does that sound plausible?

Yes, don't delete your originals.

 

[DRwyoming]

Sorry I may have confused everyone.
The copy is generated when I send the image to Topaz after they carried out the noise reduction.
The image that had the noise reduction carried out when sent back to Lightroom resulted in me having two copies of the same image one with & one without noise reduction.

On about four occasions when I used Topaz I think I've deleted the original which I think would be the reason why I get that message up when I try & rename it!!....... does that sound plausible?

Yeah, that's not a copy of the original unedited RAW file and won't be saved as a NEF (assuming you're shooting Nikon). For the purposes of a competition that does not represent an unedited RAW file especially if it has had noise reduction added.

 

[Viathelens]

Yes, it is possible to export the RAW file using LrC. Export>Original. You don’t need to worry about what u r clicked on in the history panel.

 

[markymark]

Thank you everyone for your help tonight, I really mean it.

I have files that I've put through Topaz & have ended up with a few copies of the same file & by the sounds of it have deleted the original & not the copy!

I feel such an idiot but want to thank you all for giving me a lightbulb moment as I have been so confused with this for such a long time.

My Mother used to say, 'ask a stupid question & feel a fool for five minutes, but don't ask that stupid question & feel a fool forever'!

Thanks lads.

 

[JAJohnson]

It most certainly does, along with an XMP file. And it puts it (a copy basically) in whatever folder you've selected to export it to.

You and @Archibald are right. I stand corrected.

 

[markymark]

Yes, don't delete your originals.

Me again!
I've taken your advice & put selected images onto an external hard drive.

Again never having done this before I shut everything down then reinserted the hard drive as wanted to make certain that the images were on it, but some of the images will only open in Topaz Denoise or Topaz Sharpen!
Should I delete both Topaz Denoise & Sharpen?
I'm sure it's something simple but not having a great track record on Lightroom so far just want to get advice.

Not been a good morning, am going through my library & have so far found five of my best images where I've kept the Topaz copy & not the original, completely & utterly gutted!

 

[Archibald]

@markymark - Don't move your RAW files around yourself. Let Lightroom do that.

Make sure you have backups of anything important - no sympathy if you don't.

 

[markymark]

@markymark - Don't move your RAW files around yourself. Let Lightroom do that.

Make sure you have backups of anything important - no sympathy if you don't.

When you say let Lightroom do it, what do you mean?

 

[Archibald]

Ah, thanks for letting us know that you did not absorb the earlier advice.

When you import images into LR, it records their location. If you now move the file, then LR can't find it.

So instead of moving a file yourself, fire up LR and use its file management functions to move the raw photo files around. LR can make new folders and do moves, and wants to do that or it won't have any idea where the file went.

Besides the issue of LR moving files, there is a program called Everything (Windows). It is free. It is real good at finding lost files.