Low light, high ISO performance.

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

If you, like I do, work in the woods or under any other low light conditions, don't rule out the Nikon Pro bodies. I have used the D4 and now the D5, and they are incredible camera bodies. They laugh at high ISO. I use auto ISO, and my cap on the D4 was 12,800. The cap on my D5 now is 20,000 and I'm not done experimenting yet. I may be able to go higher.

I often shoot birds in flight in woods with a canopy, such as owls, under very low light conditions. Some of my friends have given up trying to get any kind of an image worth keeping.

If you think these pro bodies are too expensive, look at a used model. Most of my purchases are done that way. Just be careful who you buy from; either a Nikon dealer or an organization where you can return it if necessary.

Here is an image shot in one of my favorite owl hunting spots in the swamps of South Carolina:

1/1250, f/8, ISO 20,000.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[DRwyoming]

Agreed, the modern crop of digital cameras and the D5/D6 line in particular are amazing at ISOs that were unthinkable not all that long ago. It really opens up possibilities including shooting well after the sun drops over the horizon and running higher shutter speeds for action shots in just about any light.

 

[BobG]

Great Shot, amazing , I don't see any noise at iso 20k.

 

[BCcanuck]

There had to be some noise in the RAW file I would have thought so I would be interested to know how you dealt with it. Not trying to be contensious, just hoping to learn.

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

There had to be some noise in the RAW file I would have thought so I would be interested to know how you dealt with it. Not trying to be contensious, just hoping to learn.

What little there was in the raw file was easily removed by DeNoise AI. On a scale of 1-100, the program recognized noise at an 8. The sensor on the D5 is amazing.

 

[Woodpecker]

The shot is truly amazing. Considering that was shot not even one full stop above the limit you have set for your D4 it would be really interesting to see this kind of shot side by side from D4 with 12800 and D5 with 20000 without correction, considering that the D5 for sure has the more modern software but the D4S pixels are about 30% bigger.

But you caught and convinced me on the other thread already and the main reason for my ebay watch list to grow are used D4S .
The thing is to find the money, but I am working on it ...

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

The shot is truly amazing. Considering that was shot not even one full stop above the limit you have set for your D4 it would be really interesting to see this kind of shot side by side from D4 with 12800 and D5 with 20000 without correction, considering that the D5 for sure has the more modern software but the D4S pixels are about 30% bigger.

But you caught and convinced me on the other thread already and the main reason for my ebay watch list to grow are used D4S .
The thing is to find the money, but I am working on it ...

I just sold my D4 today. The D5 also has a different sensor than the D4. I have no idea what that means--lol--but I do know that it is different.

 

[Woodpecker]

Would you mind telling me from your experience, what I should particularly look for if buying a used D4S - apart from the general condition.
What would you consider as a critical limit for shutter count ? (... for serious hobbyist)
Did you have to give your D4 to Nikon for service and/or repair ?

Sorry for this, but although I have already bought cameras second hand it's a different story for a pro body with still having serious four digit price tags

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

Would you mind telling me from your experience, what I should particularly look for if buying a used D4S - apart from the general condition.
What would you consider as a critical limit for shutter count ? (... for serious hobbyist)
Did you have to give your D4 to Nikon for service and/or repair ?

Sorry for this, but although I have already bought cameras second hand it's a different story for a pro body with still having serious four digit price tags

First of all, I would ask what features/changes the D4S will give you that the D4 won't? I did the comparison, and for a difference of $4-500, it wasn't going to be of value to me. But maybe the different features would be to you.

When I buy used, I either buy from a licensed Nikon dealer like Adorama, BH Photo Video, National Camera Exchange, etc OR from a seller on Ebay with a LOT of positive feedback and a rating of 99% or better, with a no-questions-asked refund policy. Some will state that you have to pay return shipping; I feel that is reasonable unless it is defective.

I also make sure I am buying a US model, meaning a Nikon model made for the US market. Supposedly NikonUSA will not repair bodies that were made for a different market. I have never tested them on that, and don't intend to. If you buy from a licensed Nikon dealer, you don't have to worry about it. They won't sell anything but a US model in the US.

I look for a reasonable shutter count for the body I am buying. Nikon says the D4 should give you 400,000 shutter actuations. I put on 60,000 to 100,000 a year, so in the D4 I bought one with a 124,000 shutter count. Replacing the shutter costs about $300-350 so I don't want to do that for at least a couple of years after I buy it.

Last, I'm a picky guy so if the above requirements are met, the last thing I would LIKE to see is does the camera come with the original box, manual, OEM charger, cables, etc as it did when it was new? If it doesn't it's not a deal breaker, but I feel that someone who is that meticulous probably took good care of the camera too.

And of course, examine the pictures if there are any. On Ebay you will see pictures of the actual item most often. From the dealers, maybe or maybe not. But the return policy should set your mind at ease.

Good luck!

 

[Woodpecker]

First of all, I would ask what features/changes the D4S will give you that the D4 won't? I did the comparison, and for a difference of $4-500, it wasn't going to be of value to me. But maybe the different features would be to you.

When I buy used, I either buy from a licensed Nikon dealer like Adorama, BH Photo Video, National Camera Exchange, etc OR from a seller on Ebay with a LOT of positive feedback and a rating of 99% or better, with a no-questions-asked refund policy. Some will state that you have to pay return shipping; I feel that is reasonable unless it is defective.

I also make sure I am buying a US model, meaning a Nikon model made for the US market. Supposedly NikonUSA will not repair bodies that were made for a different market. I have never tested them on that, and don't intend to. If you buy from a licensed Nikon dealer, you don't have to worry about it. They won't sell anything but a US model in the US.

I look for a reasonable shutter count for the body I am buying. Nikon says the D4 should give you 400,000 shutter actuations. I put on 60,000 to 100,000 a year, so in the D4 I bought one with a 124,000 shutter count. Replacing the shutter costs about $300-350 so I don't want to do that for at least a couple of years after I buy it.

Last, I'm a picky guy so if the above requirements are met, the last thing I would LIKE to see is does the camera come with the original box, manual, OEM charger, cables, etc as it did when it was new? If it doesn't it's not a deal breaker, but I feel that someone who is that meticulous probably took good care of the camera too.

And of course, examine the pictures if there are any. On Ebay you will see pictures of the actual item most often. From the dealers, maybe or maybe not. But the return policy should set your mind at ease.

Good luck!

Wow! Thanks a lot for this one !

There are a some things on the technical side I would like to have and the 500 $ difference was to my knowledge for MSRP of new bodies.
E.g. the S has the newer, faster processors which are identical to those in the D750 and considerably better for tracking (recommendation by a pro like you about two years ago), the wired ethernet is 10 times faster (As long as I am at home or at least have the computer with me I can forget about taking the card out and I don't need a card reader), ...

I don't know the price levels in the US, but I have some on the radar coming from professional re-traders specialized on photo equipment, some of which I have "tested" in the past. They have good rating, all have a 2 week return policy by EU law and some of them even offer 12 months warranty (they get you things repaired by Nikon and take the costs). Unfortunately common practice regarding return policy is very different here - in the sense of much more restrictive - with private sellers, also with high price tag items like this.

US or non-US doesn't make a difference here, because my friend had a US camera repaired here in Germany and it was no problem. So I think here they just don't care too much about it ...

My primary concern is wear parts and particularly the shutter as I don't have experience here with getting to the lifecycle limit for key parts defined by the manufacturer.
I haven't been shooting with 11 fps up to now, but Ithink there's absolutely no chance of getting more than 20% of what you are doing per year unless I loose or quit my job .
And I am one of these meticulous guys myself that you would prefer to buy from, so I am also looking for complete original scope of supply in good shape.

Thanks for wishing me luck. As there are cameras to take pictures with, I probably just need to be a bit patient to find the right one, an case of being really very lucky I may get a chance of getting a D5 from an inheritance where the seller doesn't know what (s)he is selling . Today there was a D4S sold privately with this background. Yes it had 300k shots, but it looked good and it went over the table for € 950,- . Even with paying 300 for a new shutter this could have been a nice one ...

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

Wow! Thanks a lot for this one !

There are a some things on the technical side I would like to have and the 500 $ difference was to my knowledge for MSRP of new bodies.
E.g. the S has the newer, faster processors which are identical to those in the D750 and considerably better for tracking (recommendation by a pro like you about two years ago), the wired ethernet is 10 times faster (As long as I am at home or at least have the computer with me I can forget about taking the card out and I don't need a card reader), ...

I don't know the price levels in the US, but I have some on the radar coming from professional re-traders specialized on photo equipment, some of which I have "tested" in the past. They have good rating, all have a 2 week return policy by EU law and some of them even offer 12 months warranty (they get you things repaired by Nikon and take the costs). Unfortunately common practice regarding return policy is very different here - in the sense of much more restrictive - with private sellers, also with high price tag items like this.

US or non-US doesn't make a difference here, because my friend had a US camera repaired here in Germany and it was no problem. So I think here they just don't care too much about it ...

My primary concern is wear parts and particularly the shutter as I don't have experience here with getting to the lifecycle limit for key parts defined by the manufacturer.
I haven't been shooting with 11 fps up to now, but Ithink there's absolutely no chance of getting more than 20% of what you are doing per year unless I loose or quit my job .
And I am one of these meticulous guys myself that you would prefer to buy from, so I am also looking for complete original scope of supply in good shape.

Thanks for wishing me luck. As there are cameras to take pictures with, I probably just need to be a bit patient to find the right one, an case of being really very lucky I may get a chance of getting a D5 from an inheritance where the seller doesn't know what (s)he is selling . Today there was a D4S sold privately with this background. Yes it had 300k shots, but it looked good and it went over the table for € 950,- . Even with paying 300 for a new shutter this could have been a nice one ...

Here is a link that compares the two: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Nikon-D4-vs-Nikon-D4s

I have owned the D750 as well and it is a good camera, but the D4 is far superior in every way to it.

 

[Woodpecker]

Here is a link that compares the two: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Nikon-D4-vs-Nikon-D4s
I have owned the D750 as well and it is a good camera, but the D4 is far superior in every way to it.

Thanks. By taking a look it is more a side-by-side summary of technical data from various sources.
Here is a source of information I have used in the past and still use, although I found @Steve and his forum .
They did reviews on D4 and D4S. The review of the latter also includes a comparison to the D4 and other cameras and links other articles around this topic. They take a different approach compared with @Steve but are still more practical than just the technical comparison of camera data. My friend far up in the North (well, far for Germany ...) preferred to take the S. After communicating with you, I will ask him in bit more details what the arguments were for him.

Regarding the D750 I tried CameraDecision to see what they say to D4 versus D750 and they list exactly the same low light ISO for both cameras which makes me put these data in doubt, because it is a clear contradiction to what you say and that I have heard and read from others that actrually compared it directly from user perspective. And they all say the D4S is clearly better compared with the D750 if it somes to noise tolerance, which seems logical if you consider that the pixel size of the D4S is about 50% bigger than of the D750.

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

Thanks. By taking a look it is more a side-by-side summary of technical data from various sources.
Here is a source of information I have used in the past and still use, although I found @Steve and his forum .
They did reviews on D4 and D4S. The review of the latter also includes a comparison to the D4 and other cameras and links other articles around this topic. They take a different approach compared with @Steve but are still more practical than just the technical comparison of camera data. My friend far up in the North (well, far for Germany ...) preferred to take the S. After communicating with you, I will ask him in bit more details what the arguments were for him.

Regarding the D750 I tried CameraDecision to see what they say to D4 versus D750 and they list exactly the same low light ISO for both cameras which makes me put these data in doubt, because it is a clear contradiction to what you say and that I have heard and read from others that actrually compared it directly from user perspective. And they all say the D4S is clearly better compared with the D750 if it somes to noise tolerance, which seems logical if you consider that the pixel size of the D4S is about 50% bigger than of the D750.

Right, the stats only tell part of the story. Best to get your hands on the body and test it the way you would use it.