LR- Culling/Importing Workflow

[viper699]

I'm new to LR (I HATE rentware!). I was watching a YT vid, presenter discussed bringing in images into LR's library where it seemed folders were created automatically by year. Then he mentioned Collections down below LR's software panel. As he mentioned deleting, it made me start to think about my recent trip. I have MANY thousands of images. Are they all keepers- NO, I'll delete those. Are there images where it's a tie between frame 1, and frame 3 etc, YES as to what I'll keep. BTW, I shot in RAW and JPEG (highest resolution format for both file formats) on z8.

The RAW and JPEGS are in the same folder on the same CFX card. I normally drag an drop onto my computer, and locally through windows explorer JPEGS (I know not the best) and I'm checking to see what images are in focus, and what seem reasonable to keep. It's my first pass. It seems logical, ie not to involve SW yet, so I can go through them faster- or so I think....

Which brings me to my question, there's no right/wrong approach to do this to my knowledge. There may be more efficient approaches I'm unaware of.

I'd be interested in what others do when it comes to importing images into LR. Do you screen first, like I'm suggesting above, then dump only the keepers into LR? Or do you bring everything into LR and screen there? Would large image folders cause the decision process of what to keep slow down because I'm relying on LR to view the images?

I should note I recently purchased FastRawViewer as well, but have not had a chance to tinker with it.

I'm not a pro, these are my personal images that I'll print at some point. I'm learning as I go.

Thanks in advance!

 

[lpphototx]

There are many different approaches out there and no one right answer. I shoot only raw or jpeg, not both so I don't have duplicate files. My approach is to load everything into Lightroom and do all of my culling there. I mark rejects- out of focus, missed part of the bird, etc first. Use the "X" key to mark rejects and enable Auto advance (under the photo menu) to immediately move to the next photo. I will sometimes go back to the Grid view and delete a whole sequence of photos, for example I photographed a bird the first time I saw it, but later had better opportunities. Once the obvious rejects are handled; I'll use the filters bar (select flagged and unflagged images) to do the harder culling such as selecting between your frame 1 and frame 3 example above. The Compare and Survey tools are very helpful at this stage ( both under the view menu). Lightroom does slow down if you zoom into an image and it has to create a 1:1 preview. I try to avoid this by having Lightroom create them once the initial culling is done.

I tend to use collections later in the process mostly to select my best images from a shoot, but they can be useful if you captured a number of images of the same subject over time (multiple views of the same bird over different days for example) and want to review them all easily.

 

[John Navitsky]

I'd be interested in what others do when it comes to importing images into LR. Do you screen first, like I'm suggesting above, then dump only the keepers into LR? Or do you bring everything into LR and screen there? Would large image folders cause the decision process of what to keep slow down because I'm relying on LR to view the images?

number of images is a factor for me.

generally speaking, i just import everything in lr, then cull in lightroom. this works ok imo when you have up to thousands of photos.

however, if i have tens of thousands of photos, i would consider culling outside of lightroom with something like fastrawviewer or photomechanic.

my grading is something like this:

by default, everything gets two stars. this means UNGRADED.

i then either push that down to 0 which is basically "this is not worth keeping (out of focus, whatever)", 1 which is keep this but i will only go back to photos rated 1 in rare cases, or to 3 which means it is worth keeping.

i do this while my filter is set to two stars, so the images "go away" as you grade them so you just grind until you're done.

i will likely refine the ones rated 3 more later, but basically you have a "delete", "keep" and "look at" pile.

personally speaking, i either import everything as noted originally, or if i did cull externally, i'd import anything that wasn't in the "delete" pile. ie, anything with a 1 star or up.

basicaly, if it's worth keeping, i want it in my catalog.

with regard to external culling, i think most of these programs can be set up to use the jpg AS the preview, and i would totally do that as a full sized jpg is going to be better than the embedded preview. this is because i'm often looking for critical focus the better the preview the easier it is.

that said, i would make sure i'm grading the RAW files, not the jpgs, and i would probably not keep the jpgs after i get things culled, imported and a backup or two performed. basically, i'll pretty much never use jpgs.

the reason to cull/grade externally is speed. lightroom is a great tool, but it's not fast, and so if you're trying to get through a pile of thousands of photos, the slowness adds up and can become onerous.

some things i would also do. add keywords when you import. if you're getting back from a trip, add a keyword (or multiple keywords) as you import. that makes it easier to find. you can refine the keywords later, but try to start off on the right foot.

other tidbits.

try to have a careful workflow when importing. this is a time it is easy to mess up and loose images.

i try to have this overall approach:

0) when i get new media, i try to do a FULL format the storage card in the computer, then again in the camera before i use it.

1) format my storage card in-camera before i head out each time.
2) after i return, i put the card in the reader, the only thing i do is import. and i select COPY so basically the computer is only READING the card.
3) eject the card immediately after import. do not use this card again until you have a backup of your lightroom data. this also prevents you from doing something like accidently referencing the image directly from the media card.
4) wait till backups have been performed, then and only then you can return the media card to the "available for use" pile.

that's my NORMAL workflow. however if i'm doing something critical, i may add extra steps like:

a) running a second card in backup mode. in these cases i set the backup card aside until i have at least three copies of the files.
b) i may copy the files to an additional hard drive before i import. then import the files from that "import" drive.

the key idea here is to set up a workflow so you start adding copies each step and you never mess with your original content until you have adequate copies.

with regard to backups, i think the goal should be to always have at least THREE copies of your files (with one being off-site).

 

[John Navitsky]

my setup when traveling and doing something critical.

import from card onto the "import" drive, then import into lightroom which resides on the "work" drive. then shut down lightroom and back up the lightroom drive to the "backup" drive.

now i have three copies and i can re-use the media.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[seh]

I sometimes use FastRawViewer to cull before importing to LR. It works well but it's not a game changer as I typically am not dealing with hundreds of images. And LR is fast on my computer.

 

[viper699]

Thanks everyone, helpful info for sure.

however, if i have tens of thousands of photos, i would consider culling outside of lightroom with something like fastrawviewer or photomechanic.

my grading is something like this:

by default, everything gets two stars. this means UNGRADED.

i then either push that down to 0 which is basically "this is not worth keeping (out of focus, whatever)", 1 which is keep this but i will only go back to photos rated 1 in rare cases, or to 3 which means it is worth keeping.

i do this while my filter is set to two stars, so the images "go away" as you grade them so you just grind until you're done.

i will likely refine the ones rated 3 more later, but basically you have a "delete", "keep" and "look at" pile.

personally speaking, i either import everything as noted originally, or if i did cull externally, i'd import anything that wasn't in the "delete" pile. ie, anything with a 1 star or up.

basicaly, if it's worth keeping, i want it in my catalog.

with regard to external culling, i think most of these programs can be set up to use the jpg AS the preview, and i would totally do that as a full sized jpg is going to be better than the embedded preview. this is because i'm often looking for critical focus the better the preview the easier it is.

that said, i would make sure i'm grading the RAW files, not the jpgs, and i would probably not keep the jpgs after i get things culled, imported and a backup or two performed. basically, i'll pretty much never use jpgs.

the reason to cull/grade externally is speed. lightroom is a great tool, but it's not fast, and so if you're trying to get through a pile of thousands of photos, the slowness adds up and can become onerous.

some things i would also do. add keywords when you import. if you're getting back from a trip, add a keyword (or multiple keywords) as you import. that makes it easier to find. you can refine the keywords later, but try to start off on the right foot.

other tidbits.

try to have a careful workflow when importing. this is a time it is easy to mess up and loose images.

i try to have this overall approach:

0) when i get new media, i try to do a FULL format the storage card in the computer, then again in the camera before i use it.

1) format my storage card in-camera before i head out each time.
2) after i return, i put the card in the reader, the only thing i do is import. and i select COPY so basically the computer is only READING the card.
3) eject the card immediately after import. do not use this card again until you have a backup of your lightroom data. this also prevents you from doing something like accidently referencing the image directly from the media card.
4) wait till backups have been performed, then and only then you can return the media card to the "available for use" pile.

that's my NORMAL workflow. however if i'm doing something critical, i may add extra steps like:

a) running a second card in backup mode. in these cases i set the backup card aside until i have at least three copies of the files.
b) i may copy the files to an additional hard drive before i import. then import the files from that "import" drive.

the key idea here is to set up a workflow so you start adding copies each step and you never mess with your original content until you have adequate copies.

with regard to backups, i think the goal should be to always have at least THREE copies of your files (with one being off-site).

I edited your original message, slightly.

I checked file count of this last trip, 67,400 images. I shot primarily 20 fps. I knew what I was getting into re file number ahead of time. I shot 20 fps on purpose for a variety of reasons, NO regrets! I'll check them all externally based on LR speed. I've seen others say the same, but they didn't associate a file number to their observed slowness, so this helpful.

For the moment all the images live in 3 places, one off site. I don't add tags or even star yet. I agree finding images is hard at times. For the moment I group images in Windows based on my memory, meaning "Parrot Clay Lick" or "Condor Day" etc. That generally works. I am sure I will find reasons why one group needs to be split into a sub-folder, like Priamtes>Squirrel Monkey at Camp, or something like that. Particularly when a certain species was viewed multiple times over days, like the Squirrel Monkey was.

I do use the JPEGs are the preview image. Though I didn't know the embedded jpg in a RAW file was of lesser quality, good to know. I say this because on another forum someone had written "you don't even need jpegs, just the RAW, it has the jpeg". It wasn't my conversation, so I didn't follow up for clarification then.

Maybe I'll invest time into tagging etc, I don't know. I've never been one to want to dedicate time to that post-shoot activity. I do it a bit on my phone now as friends always want to see my photos. Sometimes a folder on the phone is not fast enough, and I need to find that "Orange Bat", etc.

I do steps 1-4 in your list above for the reasons you mentioned.

Thank you again. I will be exploring FastRawViewer soon!

 

[Viathelens]

I'm normally on a "shoot" when I'm importing a large number of images to LrC. And, I'll have all of those images on an external 2T SS drive with an LrC catalog (travel catalog) for that shoot as I use a laptop on location. Often, with a large number of wildlife images, I'll use the travel catalog as my edit catalog, on the desktop computer (the large screen makes it easier to see) to delete images, going through and quickly marking for deletion (using the X key and then a mass delete) the really bad images, i.e., blurry, not a good composition, only part of an animal, etc. Then I'll use the 2T external drive to import the remaining images to my desktop computer catalog, afterwards taking some time to actually review images for keeping or deleting. I, too, "hoard" images that I most likely will never need: I think about that but always move on, leaving the multiple images. If I've processed any images on the laptop and external drive I'll use the "import as catalog" option to place all the edits in the desktop LrC catalog. In the end I mark everything I like with a green border and then go back through those to actually process images. There is no right way, only the way that works for each of us. I did download Fast Raw Viewer but have not used it yet.

 

[viper699]

I'm normally on a "shoot" when I'm importing a large number of images to LrC. And, I'll have all of those images on an external 2T SS drive with an LrC catalog (travel catalog) for that shoot as I use a laptop on location. Often, with a large number of wildlife images, I'll use the travel catalog as my edit catalog, on the desktop computer (the large screen makes it easier to see) to delete images, going through and quickly marking for deletion (using the X key and then a mass delete) the really bad images, i.e., blurry, not a good composition, only part of an animal, etc. Then I'll use the 2T external drive to import the remaining images to my desktop computer catalog, afterwards taking some time to actually review images for keeping or deleting. I, too, "hoard" images that I most likely will never need: I think about that but always move on, leaving the multiple images. If I've processed any images on the laptop and external drive I'll use the "import as catalog" option to place all the edits in the desktop LrC catalog. In the end I mark everything I like with a green border and then go back through those to actually process images. There is no right way, only the way that works for each of us. I did download Fast Raw Viewer but have not used it yet.

Yes I keep many images that I will never print etc. Particularly if they are part of specific memories from being on-site.

Green border- interesting.

 

[Viathelens]

Yes I keep many images that I will never print etc. Particularly if they are part of specific memories from being on-site.

Green border- interesting.

Green=good to go for me, a green light to move ahead, etc., so it seemed fitting. Works for me.

 

[viper699]

Green=good to go for me, a green light to move ahead, etc., so it seemed fitting. Works for me.

Sorry, no I figured that out. I was speculating if LR automatically adds the border as a feature, from a button etc.

 

[Viathelens]

Sorry, no I figured that out. I was speculating if LR automatically adds the border as a feature, from a button etc.

Yes, it does add the border but not automatically, it adds a color border of your choice. You hit the key you want, 8 is green.

 

[viper699]

Yes, it does add the border but not automatically, it adds a color border of your choice. You hit the key you want, 8 is green.

Thanks that's automatic to me!

 

[Viathelens]

Thanks that's automatic to me!

1-5 are stars, 6-9 are colors, except not the purple, haven't found a number for that.

 

[Anjin San]

I import everything into LrC and then cull the bad, clipped and out of focus shots. Then Pick flag to cull the potential keepers and filter there and then process. Historically I only delete the bad shots…but based on Brian Matiash’s latest video I’m going to try his workflow for awhile…he uses LR only mostly and culls/picks the winners from each burst and deletes the rest before uploading the keepers to the cloud that LR uses…he culled 700 to 35 in the video. No reason to keep 20 almost identical shots, just the couple in the burst that are good. I think I am going to try LR vs Classic for the culling as it renders the previews faster and then import only the winners into Classic.

On a high value trip like Botswana next summer…I will keep more…but for local shoots here in FL will keep less, after all how many GBH shots do I need…and I’m also going to try Steve’s recent idea of maybe just walk away tomthe next opportunity unless it’s a rare subject or unique position/whatever.

Typically I take the Picks and cull again to 1 star and 2 when done processing…but based on a rethink it might be better to rate everything 1, set the filter to 1 and then flag to X or P or 0 stars to give myself a double pass before deleting…the X go immediately and the 0 after fully processing the shoot. So far…I’ve always been a drive space is cheap guy…but Brian suggests in his video that at some point your family is going to feel compelled to go through all of your catalog and pre-deleting keeping only the good shots limits wasting their time. I have to admit…even on bucket list trips like CR and Serengeti last year…I rarely back and even look at the non pick shots…so why keep them? The only reason I’ve had so far was cost of the trip and not wanting to toss shots…but TBH the 1200 or 1500 photos I ended up processing or almost processing out of the 33k I took in Serengeti (and about the same in CR)…are probably all I’m ever going to want again. Keeping just the few that are good out of the burst or multiple bursts of the same critter makes logical sense…assuming I can force myself to actually do that, hence the experiment process early in this year as I will be home or close then.

 

[NikonshooterRTFan]

I'm a big fan of using FastStone Image Viewer to delete images. I often do this right off the card before importing, though if there are thousands of images and I don't have the time to go through them all right then, I will copy them over to my computer first, but I still go back later with FastStone to cull images. It's just so much faster than Lightroom (which I abandoned after they went rental only).

FastRawViewer and PhotoMechanic are two other similar ways of doing this but I prefer FastStone for its very lightweight size, speed and you can't beat the price (free, accepting donations). It just gives you SO much info--basically everything you need except for marking the focus point (which is only available in Nikon's NX Studio if shooting Nikon)--but all EXIF data, histogram, etc are there. It's also great at renaming on import--I rename all my files to YYYYMMDD-[originalfilename].NEF or .JPG so they are chronologically ordered, and then numerically ordered as shot with the camera's file name (in case I marked or noted a unique filename while shooting and want to quickly find the file) and FastStone does this automatically with every import.

I'll typically delete over 50% of my shots before importing. I'll leave some average shots that I'm not sure I want to delete yet. Lightroom or similar software could be decent for going through *these* kinds of shots the way it lets you compare two images side by side with its candidate / keeper comparison but to me nothing beats FastStone for that initial dump of images that just clutter your drive.

I forget the exact keystroke but you just arrow through your files left/right with FastStone and hit a button to mark them for deletion, and it places a pink box in the corner of the image, and then you do a Delete Marked Files command and poof all the bad shots are gone. Haven't seen a better system than that anywhere. Plus it has worked with Nikon High Efficiency RAW files from day one. Really fantastic software.

 

[viper699]

I import everything into LrC and then cull the bad, clipped and out of focus shots. Then Pick flag to cull the potential keepers and filter there and then process. Historically I only delete the bad shots…but based on Brian Matiash’s latest video I’m going to try his workflow for awhile…he uses LR only mostly and culls/picks the winners from each burst and deletes the rest before uploading the keepers to the cloud that LR uses…he culled 700 to 35 in the video. No reason to keep 20 almost identical shots, just the couple in the burst that are good. I think I am going to try LR vs Classic for the culling as it renders the previews faster and then import only the winners into Classic.

On a high value trip like Botswana next summer…I will keep more…but for local shoots here in FL will keep less, after all how many GBH shots do I need…and I’m also going to try Steve’s recent idea of maybe just walk away tomthe next opportunity unless it’s a rare subject or unique position/whatever.

Typically I take the Picks and cull again to 1 star and 2 when done processing…but based on a rethink it might be better to rate everything 1, set the filter to 1 and then flag to X or P or 0 stars to give myself a double pass before deleting…the X go immediately and the 0 after fully processing the shoot. So far…I’ve always been a drive space is cheap guy…but Brian suggests in his video that at some point your family is going to feel compelled to go through all of your catalog and pre-deleting keeping only the good shots limits wasting their time. I have to admit…even on bucket list trips like CR and Serengeti last year…I rarely back and even look at the non pick shots…so why keep them? The only reason I’ve had so far was cost of the trip and not wanting to toss shots…but TBH the 1200 or 1500 photos I ended up processing or almost processing out of the 33k I took in Serengeti (and about the same in CR)…are probably all I’m ever going to want again. Keeping just the few that are good out of the burst or multiple bursts of the same critter makes logical sense…assuming I can force myself to actually do that, hence the experiment process early in this year as I will be home or close then.

Very similar thoughts, space is cheap, the trip cost $$, and it's a bucket list place with endemic animals in many cases. I'll go back again at some point, but I have new places I haven't been to yet.

I'm a big fan of using FastStone Image Viewer to delete images. I often do this right off the card before importing, though if there are thousands of images and I don't have the time to go through them all right then, I will copy them over to my computer first, but I still go back later with FastStone to cull images. It's just so much faster than Lightroom (which I abandoned after they went rental only).

FastRawViewer and PhotoMechanic are two other similar ways of doing this but I prefer FastStone for its very lightweight size, speed and you can't beat the price (free, accepting donations). It just gives you SO much info--basically everything you need except for marking the focus point (which is only available in Nikon's NX Studio if shooting Nikon)--but all EXIF data, histogram, etc are there. It's also great at renaming on import--I rename all my files to YYYYMMDD-[originalfilename].NEF or .JPG so they are chronologically ordered, and then numerically ordered as shot with the camera's file name (in case I marked or noted a unique filename while shooting and want to quickly find the file) and FastStone does this automatically with every import.

I'll typically delete over 50% of my shots before importing. I'll leave some average shots that I'm not sure I want to delete yet. Lightroom or similar software could be decent for going through *these* kinds of shots the way it lets you compare two images side by side with its candidate / keeper comparison but to me nothing beats FastStone for that initial dump of images that just clutter your drive.

I forget the exact keystroke but you just arrow through your files left/right with FastStone and hit a button to mark them for deletion, and it places a pink box in the corner of the image, and then you do a Delete Marked Files command and poof all the bad shots are gone. Haven't seen a better system than that anywhere. Plus it has worked with Nikon High Efficiency RAW files from day one. Really fantastic software.

Thank you, not heard of either, I will DL FastRaw for sure. I too like SW that is lean on sys resources! I am shooting Nikon, the z8. I haven't downloaded Nikon's NX Studio yet. The version I have is too old.

I like your naming convention. I don't like the default in Nikon currently. I always use the default, and haven't explored in depth what I could change names to, just that the camera has the ability to do so I believe to some extent. That's a feature that is on the "to do list".

I'm on FastStone to try it, thanks.

 

[bleirer]

Keep in mind the reason they are fast is that for the raw files they show you the jpeg preview embedded in the raw. Nothing wrong with that, just that sometimes folks think they are previewing the raw. I believe fastone image viewer and fast raw viewer can be set in preferences to render the raw, though that might kill the speed advantage. Photo mechanic only shows the embedded preview, no choice, but does it very fast. I think the lightroom import module is also showing the embedded jpeg preview.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

Keep in mind the reason they are fast is that for the raw files they show you the jpeg preview embedded in the raw. Nothing wrong with that, just that sometimes folks think they are previewing the raw. I believe fastone image viewer and fast raw viewer can be set in preferences to render the raw, though that might kill the speed advantage. Photo mechanic only shows the embedded preview, no choice, but does it very fast. I think the lightroom import module is also showing the embedded jpeg preview.

FRV renders the RAW by default which is what they claim their secret sauce is, the speed of doing that. Sometimes this is why I prefer FRV along with its advanced viewing of shadows and details. I will sometimes use this to cull.

FastRawViewer opens RAW files extremely quickly and renders them on-the-fly, instead of just displaying embedded JPEGs. It allows a photographer to see the RAW exactly as a converter will "see" it, without any delays or waiting time, guaranteeing the possibility to sort and cull RAW images lightning fast and based on the quality of the RAW itself, not JPEG previews.