Mirrorless vs. DSLR my take...

[greyhoundrick]

Hello,

I hope everyone is doing well.

Just a general and personal observation I wanted to share with the group...

Yesterday I went out and photographed some birds in flight at our local riparian preserve. I took my Z7 and D850 to do a little comparison. I used the 70-200mm f/4 VR on both bodies and because it was later in the day, I was able to do some low and very low light shooting as well.

I am a big fan of the Z cameras and am full speed ahead with the Nikon mirrorless system, however, for me at least, after putting thousands of shots on my Z7, I feel like I can honestly say that the ability of the Z cameras to lock on, hold focus and track vs. a pro Nikon DSLR is just not there. With my D850 and also my D500 the difference is very noticeable and apparent. Also, in low light the Z7 took longer to focus and had some situations where it could not obtain focus vs. the D850 locking on right away.

Im not trying to bash the Z7 because, as I said, I love the system and new lenses, but, even with native lenses the performance just isn't there yet compared to pro DSLRs. I use my Z7 for other venues and it performs well, but when Im doing a paid shoot in any type of challenging conditions, I always reach for my DSLRs.

Just my 2cents and would love to know your thoughts. Im an older guy so it might be a little more difficult to totally switch to mirrorless. I just love shooting with DSLRs so much that I think I might always have one!

Take care and hope you have a great day!

best,

Rick

 

[Snapshot2020]

I like that .02 and good to know as I recently purchased a new D850 to compliment my D500 and I shoot primarily Eagles, Ospreys and Hawks using the 200-500mm and the fast focusing 500mmPF 5.6. I was thinking buy the z7 though I did a lot of reading and watching Utube videos and went with the D850. I’m going to wait and see what Nikon has to offer for a Flagship Z Mirrorless that has the Focus acquisition speed of their Pro Bodies D5 and D6.

 

[Letolen]

Interesting observation. I had been told I was going backwards not buying mirrorless after I read reviews, YouTube & others I am staying with mirror for now.
Just feel mirrorless is not for me yet.
Even considering picking up a 2nd Nikon D750

 

[Rassie]

The current crop of Z6/7 is well known to lag the DSLR's in terms of tracking fast-moving things. They also focus slower with the F-mount lenses.
All that is about to change. Watch Nikon's announcement on Wednesday of the new Z611 and Z711 bodies. I have a Z6 and besides its slower focus I like everything else about the mirrorless cameras. It has so many other advantages over the DSLR's that I won't go back to DSLR. In future it's mirrorless all the way for me.

 

[ruley74]

Thanks Rick, it's good to have the ability to do back to backs.

My experience with photography only expands to mid last year so take what i have to add with that context.

Given the way cameras are heading i thought it was smart to jump straight onto mirrorless, be it Canon. There are so many good things about mirrorless but the one thing i realized is they weren't there yet with action & wildlife stuff (Sony maybe, but they've had a few generations to figure it out). I ended up selling everything up and jumped to DLSR in the Nikon system and my hit/keeper rate went through the roof comparatively.

As another note, i was out Sunday morning with another fella photographing and a small wader come flying toward/side on to us. The GRP focus points pretty much covered it in the frame to give you a context of size and distance away. I was able to grab focus and rattle of a bunch of shots, the other guy who was running a 6DII and Tamron 150-600G1 and got zero in focus, not all DSLR AF systems are equal either.

 

[Woodpecker]

The current crop of Z6/7 is well known to lag the DSLR's in terms of tracking fast-moving things. They also focus slower with the F-mount lenses.
All that is about to change. Watch Nikon's announcement on Wednesday of the new Z611 and Z711 bodies. I have a Z6 and besides its slower focus I like everything else about the mirrorless cameras. It has so many other advantages over the DSLR's that I won't go back to DSLR. In future it's mirrorless all the way for me.

As I don't want to be called a stubborn German I will closely follow the discussions about the new generation Z series starting in a couple of hours after Nikon officially released the Zx II generation. Currently the only reason for me to switch would be getting a camera working quietly while providing the same level of functionality compared with my DSLRs as a minimum. This would include being able to use existing lenses and achieving at least the IQ and AF capabilites I get with the DSLRs.

I am looking forward to see what they come up with and read about the experiences of the protagonists being on back order for the Zx II bodies already, and I am really interested to see whether they come up with an improved way of using F mount lenses on these cameras - may be a FTZ adapter II ?

 

[greyhoundrick]

Well I could say ‘Hey this was known within a week after the release of the Zeds’ but I take you didn’t do much research on the Z7 before acquiring one.
Nothing wrong with that, the internet is filled with BS reviews.
The Z7 is a very nice camera but it’s no action camera (and Nikon never said it to be that)
I don’t expect the next iterations of the Zeds ,announced today, to be actionheroes either, but we’ll see.

Btw you might want to change the title of your thread.
There are mirrorless cameras outthere who equal and better the vast majority of DSLRs (including a D850) regarding AF and speed.

Hi Roger,

Thanks for you comments. Appreciate them!

I agree that the ability of the Z cameras upon their inception to be as capable as DSLRs with regard to action was not a given nor a guarantee, however there were some reviewers whom claimed they were "very close". After 3 firmware updates they are getting closer and I honestly think the Z9 will be the big break thru.

I think the Z6II and the Z7II are excellent improvements and upgrades even though some of the usual YouTube Nikon haters are bashing them like they always do.

The title of my thread was in reference to the Nikon brand only.

I know the Sony A9II is an excellent sports camera but for many reasons other than AF speed and FPS I would choose a D6...

 

[Thern]

@greyhoundrick

Rick, I bought a Z7 longtime after the ‘bashers’ were silent and I was totally aware of the ‘poor’ performance regarding AF.
Steve got bashed for his honest and correct assessment of the Zeds for WL-photography but I couldn’t care less because I had the D5 for fast action and wanted a camera to succeed my D800E. (Yup never felt the need nor the wish for a D850)
The Z7 ticked every box for me and when I say every I do mean every.
We use it for holidays, macro, portraiture, sceneries, family aso and it delivers.
Shooting a D6 (or a D5) I’m still looking at current Zeds as non-action cameras Certainly they will be better in this regard, we’ll see how much better.

 

[Steve]

@greyhoundrick

Rick, I bought a Z7 longtime after the ‘bashers’ were silent and I was totally aware of the ‘poor’ performance regarding AF.
Steve got bashed for his honest and correct assessment of the Zeds for WL-photography but I couldn’t care less because I had the D5 for fast action and wanted a camera to succeed my D800E. (Yup never felt the need nor the wish for a D850)
The Z7 ticked every box for me and when I say every I do mean every.
We use it for holidays, macro, portraiture, sceneries, family aso and it delivers.
Shooting a D6 (or a D5) I’m still looking at current Zeds as non-action cameras Certainly they will be better in this regard, we’ll see how much better.

LOL, and I learned my lesson too - notice the lack of a " Z6/7 II preview" video form me today? I stopped doing them after that - even if I know how a camera is going to be based on specs, it's not worth the headache to tell anyone.

 

[Thern]

LOL, and I learned my lesson too - notice the lack of a " Z6/7 II preview" video form me today? I stopped doing them after that - even if I know how a camera is going to be based on specs, it's not worth the headache to tell anyone.

I didn’t expect one Steve, you said you wouldn’t do this kind of previews anymore in the future long before you started this forum.

 

[EricBowles]

Hello,

I hope everyone is doing well.

Just a general and personal observation I wanted to share with the group...

Yesterday I went out and photographed some birds in flight at our local riparian preserve. I took my Z7 and D850 to do a little comparison. I used the 70-200mm f/4 VR on both bodies and because it was later in the day, I was able to do some low and very low light shooting as well.

I am a big fan of the Z cameras and am full speed ahead with the Nikon mirrorless system, however, for me at least, after putting thousands of shots on my Z7, I feel like I can honestly say that the ability of the Z cameras to lock on, hold focus and track vs. a pro Nikon DSLR is just not there. With my D850 and also my D500 the difference is very noticeable and apparent. Also, in low light the Z7 took longer to focus and had some situations where it could not obtain focus vs. the D850 locking on right away.

Im not trying to bash the Z7 because, as I said, I love the system and new lenses, but, even with native lenses the performance just isn't there yet compared to pro DSLRs. I use my Z7 for other venues and it performs well, but when Im doing a paid shoot in any type of challenging conditions, I always reach for my DSLRs.

Just my 2cents and would love to know your thoughts. Im an older guy so it might be a little more difficult to totally switch to mirrorless. I just love shooting with DSLRs so much that I think I might always have one!

Take care and hope you have a great day!

best,

Rick

I'd agree with your comments for fast moving medium to smaller subject - especially birds that are relatively small in the frame. It's important to differentiate based on size and speed of the subject. For example, the camera has no problem keeping up with jumping horses in my equestrian work because the subject is relatively large and easy to track. Shorebirds in flight are only slightly more difficult than with my D850 because I have a long path for tracking the subject. Large wading birds in flight are relatively easy - they're big and easy to capture. The problem comes when the subject is small in the frame, hard to distinguish from the background, or hard to follow with an AF sensor. Of course - technique also is part of the equation. I find that with the Z cameras I may start a burst a little earlier to make sure I can capture the subject in sharp focus or to give me time to track the subject while focus is acquired.

The other side of this is for perched subjects, AF with the Z cameras is usually more accurate than with my D850. This is true for regular shooting, but also with the benefits of focus peaking and zooming through the EVF. I'm able to capture photos of obstructed birds that are nearly impossible with an optical viewfinder and manual focus adjustments.

The key is knowing when to use each camera for it's strengths - and how to avoid the weaknesses. As Rick points out, the Z cameras are very good - but in the end the camera is just a tool and there may be other tools that are better for different situations.

 

[Pics6x6]

I have a D850 and decided to try mirrorless because of medical issues I needed a smaller, lighter camera. Started with the Z6, went up to a Z7 and just bought a Z5 for back-up. I still feel that the D850 is a better camera. I like the optical viewfinder better, it's always ready, I has less information to confuse the view, can be used top break walnuts, and not to sound silly but I have much more confidence when using it. When I use the Z7 I feel like I'm using a toy but with the D850 I feel I'm using a camera. Maybe the Z line has too many bells and whistles for me. I'm kind of stuck with the Z line as I need something lighter to use but I have to say my miss rate is higher with the Z line.

 

[Nikondale]

Hello,

I hope everyone is doing well.

Just a general and personal observation I wanted to share with the group...

Yesterday I went out and photographed some birds in flight at our local riparian preserve. I took my Z7 and D850 to do a little comparison. I used the 70-200mm f/4 VR on both bodies and because it was later in the day, I was able to do some low and very low light shooting as well.

I am a big fan of the Z cameras and am full speed ahead with the Nikon mirrorless system, however, for me at least, after putting thousands of shots on my Z7, I feel like I can honestly say that the ability of the Z cameras to lock on, hold focus and track vs. a pro Nikon DSLR is just not there. With my D850 and also my D500 the difference is very noticeable and apparent. Also, in low light the Z7 took longer to focus and had some situations where it could not obtain focus vs. the D850 locking on right away.

Im not trying to bash the Z7 because, as I said, I love the system and new lenses, but, even with native lenses the performance just isn't there yet compared to pro DSLRs. I use my Z7 for other venues and it performs well, but when Im doing a paid shoot in any type of challenging conditions, I always reach for my DSLRs.

Just my 2cents and would love to know your thoughts. Im an older guy so it might be a little more difficult to totally switch to mirrorless. I just love shooting with DSLRs so much that I think I might always have one!

Take care and hope you have a great day!

best,

Rick

Rick and others,

I appreciate the views and reviews of people actually using the Z system. I am on the Nikon fence wondering if the grass on the Z side is getting greener. I think the Z system is improving with the introduction of the ZII line. On paper the 7II bodies sound great but I will wait until some actual users post their reactions and, of course, SteveP produces a review from the shooter's standpoint of the Z6 and Z7 version II. Until then, my current Nikon DSLR bodies are providing hours of enjoyment. To all, keep the reactions coming.