Need recommendation for network setup

[JP Onstwedder]

Moving into a new place and looking for the 'best' network and file server/NAS setup. Here are the basics:
- wired 2.5 Gbe ethernet throughout
- 2 Apple iMacs or Minis used for processing by my wife and I, so two active users
- current storage about 12 TB, looking to 'future proof' up to 48 TB
- almost all of that storage is photos (90% NEF and 10% JPG); there may be some video in future but nothing major
- need primary storage that's fast enough for processing on the Macs, using Capture One (catalogs stored locally)
- need onsite backup, less worried about offsite backup (I do a once a year copy to a big hard drive and store that externally)
- need internet access for the JPGs (think processed and exported images, not raw files)

I'm familiar with Synology NAS but not exactly a power user. Current NAS is a Synology 418j (value series 4 bay)

I'm considering two options.
Option 1 - go all-in on NAS. Something like a 923+ with 46TB storage, 10GBe upgrade.
Option 2 - DAS. Something like the Lacie 1BigDock with 18 or 24 TB storage attached to each Mac.
In both options I'm planning to use the existing 418j as the backup destination.

Thoughts/experiences that would help me decide - or even better options?

 

[Anjin San]

I personally don’t recommend a NAS for primary storage unless you need more than about 6 simultaneous users. It’s another computer to manage…and provides zero capabilities that aren’t easier and usually cheaper to do with DAS. I would get an OWC ThunderBay Thunderbolt RAID at whatever capacity you want and attach it to whichever iMac/mini does more photo processing. Create a shared folder on it for the second computer…and I would put the catalog and current year images on a Thunderbolt external SSD or the internal SSD and older years on the RAID…that’s my approach.

Backup to some 20 TB USB drives…I use OWC and get the enterprise mechanism models…and offsite to BackBlaze. CarbonCopyCloner tasks run all my local backups so size of the destination isn’t an issue. The existing NAS could be the local backup or one of the two local backups…I’m paranoid but that doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me.

 

[JP Onstwedder]

Interesting. I don't like the idea of a shared folder on a drive attached to one computer as that tends not to work if the primary computer goes to sleep or is switched off. But I will look into the OWC RAID.

 

[Ralph]

Interesting. I don't like the idea of a shared folder on a drive attached to one computer as that tends not to work if the primary computer goes to sleep or is switched off. But I will look into the OWC RAID.

Use a OWC enclosure that can be used in multiple ways. I house two 12 tb toshiba enterprise drives but don’t employ the Raid setting. They are independent of one another. You’ll probably want a larger drive. The enclosure also acts as a hub with several usb ports.

 

[Calson]

NAS is the best overall solution for you and your wife to access files from your computers. The performance of the NAS depends on the CPU and the speed of the ports. My QNAP 951 has a 1GB and a 10GB Ethernet port. It also allows for using hard drives with SSD that cache content but this is more important for video editing for multiple users.

The NAS connects to our Wifi router with the 1GB Ethernet port for wireless access to the files. For large amounts of data I use the 10GB port connected by an Ethernet cable to a 10GB NIC inside my computer.

With the Mac environment there are other options not available in the Wintel world but I would still be using a QNAP NAS. We have a combination of Windows and Mac OS computers using the data on the NAS and the process is seamless.

 

[Anjin San]

Interesting. I don't like the idea of a shared folder on a drive attached to one computer as that tends not to work if the primary computer goes to sleep or is switched off. But I will look into the OWC RAID.

In macOS…you just set the server computer to never sleep but let the display sleep. As long as the server is logged in amd screen locked for security…the shared drive is available. I’ve been doing it that way for at least 25 years and it works just fine. Ypu just create a user account on the server and give it full rights to the shared folder…or use guest access which also works just fine. All of our Mac’s…2 each desktop and laptop have the same set of user accounts and passwords, along with disk encryption and screen locked set. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t say it tenses not to work…it is trivial to setup and works perfectly.

A NAS makes sense if you have many simultaneous users…and if it is on a 10Gbit Ethernet port to your network…but that raises the cost. They NAS does provide idiot proof (almost) software for things like plex server or connection across the internet…but it doesn’t provide any services that cannot be easily added to a shared DAS…and gives you another computer you need to manage and keep up to date. To a network user…there is zero difference between a NAS and DAS…either is a simple and identical network connection.

Source…Mac user since 198 and long time sysadmin in my working days.

 

[Anjin San]

NAS is the best overall solution for you and your wife to access files from your computers. The performance of the NAS depends on the CPU and the speed of the ports. My QNAP 951 has a 1GB and a 10GB Ethernet port. It also allows for using hard drives with SSD that cache content but this is more important for video editing for multiple users.

The NAS connects to our Wifi router with the 1GB Ethernet port for wireless access to the files. For large amounts of data I use the 10GB port connected by an Ethernet cable to a 10GB NIC inside my computer.

With the Mac environment there are other options not available in the Wintel world but I would still be using a QNAP NAS. We have a combination of Windows and Mac OS computers using the data on the NAS and the process is seamless.

We could debate the relative merits of the two solutions…and while a NAS is seamless mostly…so is DAs that is shared. Either provides the same network connectivity to a usually SMB shared drive…and DAS lowers the number of computers to manage by 1 since there is no NAS and its OS to manage.

 

[wotan1]

Treat each of you as completely separate computers with separate storage and backup setups.

You each are going to need a fast external SSD for processing. You can store older images on slower drives, You each would enjoy dual monitors and consider making one of them a 5k monitor. I personally like the Apple Studio monitor and I use a 4k monitor for thumbnails.

the last I looked 8 tb is the largest single drive you can find in a fast SSD drive. You won't need more than that for primary processing just plan to move the older images to slower storage. Move your older images off the fast drives and that way your storage can be expanded indefinitely by adding more storage drives as needed. OWC is coming out with some incredibly fast single SSD drives.

I agree that NAS is not necessary and it adds complications and slows the data transfer pathway compared to DAS.

Your backup plan should ideally involve one remote storage solution and two local storage drives for each of your primary drives. You can subdivide a backup drive so multiple primary drives can be backed up to a single large capacity backup drive. You don't need anything particularly fast for that purpose and large capacity spinning disks will work fine,

Backblaze is a good choice for cloud backup it will handle your internal drive and alll of your primary drives. You will need one account per computer.

Time Machine can handle backup of your internal drive and is built into the MAC system.. Carbon Copy Cloner can handle the local backups of all the external drives.

All of these programs can be set up so after the initial complete backup they only back up changes. You will need time for the initial backups but in most cases overnight is plenty long enough for even slower spinning disk drives to make a complete initial backup.

I would be careful not to reformat your camera cards until you have imported the images and have verified the changes were backed up.

Carbon Copy and Timewave are set up to copy once a day usually at night. They don't require much time since they only backup the changes after the initial backup.

You need to give some thought to how you are handling field work and that might affect what you want for primary computer.

If you each use a MacBook Pro as the primary computer you can bring it on the road with you and have a portable fast SSD to copy and view files from your camera cards. If that is the case you can use the screen on the MacBook Pro as the second screen and get by with one external Studio monitor.

I chose not to do that, I use a Studio at home and have a separate MacBook Pro for field and casual use. You can also do field/casual with a MacBook Air.

I would not bother with an iPad for anything more than casual review of images. the processing capability of iPads is very limited and not worth the expense you are better off with a MacBook Air or pro.

 

[wotan1]

I have tried to use a RAID consisting of spinning drives for catalog and primary processing but I find it is not all that fast. A RAID consisting of solid state drives would be quite fast but also rather expensive.

I ended up getting an 8 tb enterprise level G Drive high speed SSD in an enclosure with external power supply. They don't seem to be available anymore. I have not seen single high speed SSD's any bigger than 8 TB. OWC has some that run off of USB 4/Thunderbolt 4 and are blazingly fast. One of those should be more than sufficient for your photo processing drive.

I am not an expert on these drives and there are others on here who know more about them than I do. I just know that if you have a large capacity single high speed SSD it greatly speeds up your processing and eliminates lag.

 

[JP Onstwedder]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the benefit of your experience!

 

[Patrick M]

My home network is all at 10Gbps … I watched Hudson Henry’s video. With the huge Hasselblad files (typically 220meg) I wanted a fast network.
I have a Synology DS923+ 4 bay, each with 4Tb and with RAID it gives me 12Tb plus I can swap out a bad drive.
For me an advantage of Synology is that I can access it via WiFi from wherever I am…now I have my home security cameras feeding into it too…so I can see what’s going on!
I have an older modern disc station too, which is where the active one backs up to once a week. If I need more disc space, I can add extension bays or simply swap out a disc with a larger one.

 

[wotan1]

NAS storage works if you need to access your catalog remotely. On the other hand if you mostly process at one location then a NAS is an added expense and complexity that is not needed.

I do my main processing at home with a Mac Studio mainly because I get to use dual screens one of which is 5k. For the road I use a MacBook Pro. I use that for temporary storage and editing of recent photos taken during the trip. I will bring those images back with me and when I get home import the ones I will keep into the main catalog.