Nikon 600 mm

[Wim Bosch]

Hi Steve
I'm confused, ask for my wildlife photo shoot I am using an older Nikon 600 mm f4 g af-s vr II can now buy a second-hand Nikon 600 mm f4e af-s fl ed vr almost new is this a wise decision?
or is the investment in heavy lenses outdated?
Use a D5 / D850 and what I notice is that the AF locks more difficult with the older lens, a new AF motor has already been added in the past
Trade in 3500 to 4000 euros old lens, the new 9500 euros will I be happier with this or do I have to wait for better times Nikon stuff


What is your advice
Thanks in advance

Wim Bosch

 

[Warren D]

I never had the older version but have had the 600 EFL for a couple of years. In general, it's lighter so it is hand holdable to a degree. I've read reports where the EFL is sharper wide open where it's predecessor was best when stopped down 1/3 to 2/3 stop. The VR is improved on the EFL and it takes a 1.4 TC EIII very well. I always suggest renting expensive gear before buying.

 

[Callie]

Hi Steve
I'm confused, ask for my wildlife photo shoot I am using an older Nikon 600 mm f4 g af-s vr II can now buy a second-hand Nikon 600 mm f4e af-s fl ed vr almost new is this a wise decision?
or is the investment in heavy lenses outdated?
Use a D5 / D850 and what I notice is that the AF locks more difficult with the older lens, a new AF motor has already been added in the past
Trade in 3500 to 4000 euros old lens, the new 9500 euros will I be happier with this or do I have to wait for better times Nikon stuff


What is your advice
Thanks in advance

Wim Bosch

I had the same 6,2 kg bazouka and it was an incredible lens. The lighter 600 just make handling & shooting so much easier; so I have read. I have noticed that many the the established wildlife photographers in SA have gone for the new, lighter 400 f/2.8, rather than the new 600, because they do a lot of night photography and the weight difference is a seller. Having had the both 400 f/2.8 and the 600 f/4, I can say that both lenses kick-but. The question maybe that you should ask is what do you want to shoot, how often and in what circumstances. Also your age, no pun intended. I could shoot both lenses hand held but as you get older, that weight is a killer. Tripods and wimberleys are great, but carrying all that gear! If you are not earning your money via photography, and the logistics around your current setup is manageable, I would not swap for the new lens. If it is your bread and butter, then put the old lens up for adoption! I have opted for the 500 PF, and the maneuverability vs the 600 is a game changer for me. Most of my shooting is from inside a car, where swinging a 600 misses a lot of images. Having shot many of the premium lenses, I stick my neck out and say that there is very little difference in quality once the image has been properly processed. What you may find is that your success rate in keepers and more subject positions increase with the newer lenses and bodies.

 

[gordon_g]

Hi Steve
I'm confused, ask for my wildlife photo shoot I am using an older Nikon 600 mm f4 g af-s vr II can now buy a second-hand Nikon 600 mm f4e af-s fl ed vr almost new is this a wise decision?
or is the investment in heavy lenses outdated?
Use a D5 / D850 and what I notice is that the AF locks more difficult with the older lens, a new AF motor has already been added in the past
Trade in 3500 to 4000 euros old lens, the new 9500 euros will I be happier with this or do I have to wait for better times Nikon stuff


What is your advice
Thanks in advance

Wim Bosch

I'm confused do you mean you have a Nikon 600mm F4 G VR lens? I was not aware of a VRII in a G lens? or do you mean a D lens?

 

[EricBowles]

I'm not sure I'd spend the money to upgrade the 600 f/4 G to the latest FL version. Sure - the FL version is lighter, and there may be a small improvement in optics. But the G version is excellent. Now if your AF motor is balky or shows potential issues, you might go ahead and make the move. Replacing an AF motor is easy and not that expensive, but if it's an intermittent problem or hard to diagnose and repair, that's a different story.

I like the 600 f/4. It's a very good lens and works well with the 1.4 teleconverter. I don't find the idea of dropping back to a 400mm lens with teleconverter to be a good idea if my subject needs 600mm. I think you choose the lens you need for your subject and use the bare lens. The TC is for something extra on an occasional basis. The 400 f/2.8 is a terrific lens for low light work or if you need a shallow DOF.

If you need a light lens, I'd look at the 500 PF in addition to your 600 f/4 - not instead of it. Each lens has its place, and the performance of the 600 f/4 justifies using it when appropriate. The PF lens is lighter, but the design does have potential for some artifacts under some conditions, background highlights are different, and the lens is a slower f/5.6. If weight is your top priority though, it's an easy answer.

 

[Wim Bosch]

Thanks guys
Maybe I should sleep on it first, quite a lot of money, no one can see in the future what Nikon will bring, but now I am about to take a step forward, the lens will retain its residual value, I hope
Hab a 500mm including Crop camera, but to maintain the focal length I switched to 600mm together with a full fame so switching back makes no sense for me now
And my stuff is all Nikon switching to another brand costs even more, I am curious whether the lens also performs well with the mirrorless cameras, e.g. stabilizes in body if renewal is needed in the future

Thanks again for your responses

Wim Bosch

 

[ingweDave]

I had the same 6,2 kg bazouka and it was an incredible lens. The lighter 600 just make handling & shooting so much easier; so I have read. I have noticed that many the the established wildlife photographers in SA have gone for the new, lighter 400 f/2.8, rather than the new 600, because they do a lot of night photography and the weight difference is a seller. Having had the both 400 f/2.8 and the 600 f/4, I can say that both lenses kick-but. The question maybe that you should ask is what do you want to shoot, how often and in what circumstances. Also your age, no pun intended. I could shoot both lenses hand held but as you get older, that weight is a killer. Tripods and wimberleys are great, but carrying all that gear! If you are not earning your money via photography, and the logistics around your current setup is manageable, I would not swap for the new lens. If it is your bread and butter, then put the old lens up for adoption! I have opted for the 500 PF, and the maneuverability vs the 600 is a game changer for me. Most of my shooting is from inside a car, where swinging a 600 misses a lot of images. Having shot many of the premium lenses, I stick my neck out and say that there is very little difference in quality once the image has been properly processed. What you may find is that your success rate in keepers and more subject positions increase with the newer lenses and bodies.

Thanks guys
Maybe I should sleep on it first, quite a lot of money, no one can see in the future what Nikon will bring, but now I am about to take a step forward, the lens will retain its residual value, I hope
Hab a 500mm including Crop camera, but to maintain the focal length I switched to 600mm together with a full fame so switching back makes no sense for me now
And my stuff is all Nikon switching to another brand costs even more, I am curious whether the lens also performs well with the mirrorless cameras, e.g. stabilizes in body if renewal is needed in the future

Thanks again for your responses

Wim Bosch

I have to agree with many of the comments. I use a D5, D850 & Z6. My go to lenses have been 500f4 + 300f2.8. I have recently bought 300pf & 500pf and I can't believe how many more keepers I am getting. I do a fair amount of hide work, so the big ones will remain but for travelling I have been converted to the PFs.

 

[EricBowles]

I'm primarily using the 600 f/4 AFS G VR lens with my Z6. I've used it with TC14E III and without. The combination is outstanding - it's my first choice for small bird photography and got a lot of use during spring migration. I prefer it on a Z camera to my D850. Many of the small birds in my area are in thickly wooded areas or mixed lighting. The ability to use the EVF to adjust exposure as a bird moves from full shade to full sun is helpful. I program the Fn1 button to zoom to 100% so I can precisely focus manually through branches or so I can watch for precise head position or behavior. The Z6 with Fn1 zooming has replaced binoculars most of the time.

This is a typical image - roughly a 100% crop. AF needed a manual override because of the leaves just in front of the bird.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[DRwyoming]

or is the investment in heavy lenses outdated?

Definitely not. Though the new crop of lighter f/5.6 or f/6.3 lenses are great for what they are they don't replace fast glass. A 600mm f/4 still makes subject isolation and selective focus much easier, still allows the AF system to work at top speed with all the focus points operating to their full potential, still takes teleconverters better without as much AF system impact and still gives you a full stop edge in falling light levels.

I love my 500mm f/5.6 PF lens but no way I'm letting go of my 600mm f/4. I have the same G lens as you and it's not in the budget for me to upgrade to the E series lens but if I had the spare cash for the upgrade I'd go for it for the weight savings and closer minimum focusing distance.

 

[Wim Bosch]

Thanks guys

Brings me further with the decision to make the investment, while negotiating sharply about the price

Stay healthy and take beautiful photos

Wim Bosch

 

[Steve]

FWIW, I had the 600G and upgraded to the E. There are gains in sharpness (it is better wide open), it's lighter, and it seems like the AF is slightly quicker. However, to this day I still don't know if the incremental gains were worth the upgrade. On one hand, I'm glad I have the "E" version (especially when hand-holding), but on the other, was it really worth the extra cash I had to lay out after I sold m y 600G? Sometimes I think it was, often I think it wasn't. I'd say unless one of the upgrades you get with the "E" version would make a huge difference, it's probably not worth it.

 

[Wim Bosch]

Ok Steve

Thank you for your advice, whatever plays with it is what Nikon will do, is this lens going to be good to use with the mirrorless thing (larger fitting) am not so happy with the intermediate ring, another moving element
yes choices I have to make

Greetings Wim Bosch

 

[JKoerner007]

I'm primarily using the 600 f/4 AFS G VR lens with my Z6. I've used it with TC14E III and without. The combination is outstanding - it's my first choice for small bird photography and got a lot of use during spring migration. I prefer it on a Z camera to my D850. Many of the small birds in my area are in thickly wooded areas or mixed lighting. The ability to use the EVF to adjust exposure as a bird moves from full shade to full sun is helpful. I program the Fn1 button to zoom to 100% so I can precisely focus manually through branches or so I can watch for precise head position or behavior. The Z6 with Fn1 zooming has replaced binoculars most of the time.

This is a typical image - roughly a 100% crop. AF needed a manual override because of the leaves just in front of the bird.

I agree with your choices, even though I don't own either the Z6 or the 600mm.

I own the Z7 w/ the 800 f/5.6 FL ED.

The reason the 800 FL ED comes with a "1.25x Ext" with it ... is because AF is useless (or non-existent) past f/8. Even with the 1.25x Ext. (@ f/7.1), AF sucks in low-light conditions. (I own the D5, the D850, and the D500 ... and the AF *sucks* with *all* of them, even with just the 1.25x TC.).

Trying to use the 800 f/5.6 FL ED with the 1.4x TC can only be done in good lighting ...trying to use the 2x TC cannot be done at all (unless you use Live View + MF).

The Z6 and Z7 change all this!!

Their AF accuracy remains true, even with an 800mm lens + 2x TC (1600mm f/11)! Even better, I can use the EVF + magnification to really nail focus.)

Here are some examples:

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You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Keep in mind, it's not that these images are "better" than any other images (taken w/ other gear) ... it's how far away I was when I got them.

These shots were taken @ 1600mm f/11 on a Z7. (800 + 2x TC).

If I was shooting a 300, 400, 500, or 600 ... these birds would have been specs in my viewfinder. "Cropping them" would have reduced the quality greatly.

If you're shooting birds, in your backyard, gathered around your bird feeder (that are used to seeing you), go ahead and enjoy a 300 or 400mm lens.

But these birds were close to "a football field" away. (I routinely hike in a vast Canyon environment, where vegetation is sparse, and the WILD birds here do NOT allow a close approach. A 600mm is "too short" for my vicinity. Hell, my 800mm is "too short" 99x out of 100!!)

The point of this long post is to underscore the advantage of mirrorless ...

I can't use the 1.4x or 2x extender with the 800mm on my D5, D850, or D500 ... because my AF doesn't work!!

But I *can* use my 1.4x and 2x Extenders on my Z7

I now have the highest-quality, longest-reach AF telephoto setup that is possible with current gear, for my local conditions.

That said, my only regret is I didn't get the Z6 instead.

Reason being, when I am at 1600mm f/11 (early in the morning), my ISO is through the roof.

The Z7 may have better image quality "at base ISO" ... but the Z6 has better image quality passed ISO 2000 ... and I am usually in the 6000 to 8000 range with this combo.

The point of this long rant is, if you're shooting the 800 (or 600) ... and you need *reach* ... and want to use TCs to get it ... the Z6 (imo) is the best current Nikon camera to use in the field. I could buy it now, but I will wait for the Z6s ... and/or whatever future D5 mirrorless replacement comes about.

Cheers.

 

[ssheipel]

I'm primarily using the 600 f/4 AFS G VR lens with my Z6. I've used it with TC14E III and without. The combination is outstanding - it's my first choice for small bird photography and got a lot of use during spring migration. I prefer it on a Z camera to my D850. Many of the small birds in my area are in thickly wooded areas or mixed lighting. The ability to use the EVF to adjust exposure as a bird moves from full shade to full sun is helpful. I program the Fn1 button to zoom to 100% so I can precisely focus manually through branches or so I can watch for precise head position or behavior. The Z6 with Fn1 zooming has replaced binoculars most of the time.

This is a typical image - roughly a 100% crop. AF needed a manual override because of the leaves just in front of the bird.
View attachment 1530

Just love the context given here. Creamy 'blank canvas' backgrounds are superb, but then there's this presentation, too! Lovely.

 

[Wim Bosch]

Thanks JKoerner007