Nikon 600TC+ext1.4 vs 800PF+1.4

[nautiboy]

Hey,

I’m wondering if anyone has a good feel for whether the 600TC+int1.4+ext1.4 is better/worse than 800PF+1.4. Also, just to double-check - I’m pretty sure that unlike the 400TC, the 600TC does better with stacked 1.4s vs the 2.0, but if anyone has information the other way, let me know.

The situation is someone contacted me to try and get photos of some baby Great Horned Owls in a tree near her house. I went over yesterday with my 800PF to do some initial scouting, test shots, etc. The distance is about 200’. I tried all sorts of angles and locations to try and get closer, and while I did find one spot where I could get a little closer, there are a lot more branch obstructions, I’m shooting more straight up and the owls have to be in the absolute perfect position to get a shot.

I took some shots with the naked 800PF, but most of them were with the 1.4 attached. The results were decent, but atmospherics were playing a strong role, as I wasn’t able to get there until after noon. Focus was also “fun” because of the atmospherics, as well as the fact that there were a lot of branches in the way causing fits for the AF. I eventually switched to AFS with pinpoint and even switched the starlight mode on, since their faces were often shaded. That seemed to do a better job focusing, but of course we had a 20mph wind causing the tree to sway a fair bit which is murder with shallow DOF and AFS, but it still seemed to be doing better than with any of the AFC modes I tried (both with and without subject detection).

Anyway, most of those shots were largely just quick experiments to see what I might want to do on a followup visit. I don’t want to do a lot of lens switching, and right now one of my bodies is in for maintenance - I have a loaner that was supposed to be delivered today, but I missed the FedEx guy. :-( And even if I did have my 2nd body (both Z9s FWIW), I only have one 1.4TC, so I’d be swapping anyway.

So now I’m wondering if it might be better to use the 600TC with stacked TCs, which would also get me slightly wider aperture so slightly less noise (since I still have to crop a lot) or stick with the 800PF+TC. And I guess putting all the options on the table, I do still have my 800f5.6E and f-mount 1.4TC.

Just curious on people’s thoughts.

 

[nautiboy]

FWIW, here's one of my "test" shots. Bear in mind - long distance and bad time of day.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[DRwyoming]

So now I’m wondering if it might be better to use the 600TC with stacked TCs, which would also get me slightly wider aperture so slightly less noise (since I still have to crop a lot) or stick with the 800PF+TC. And I guess putting all the options on the table, I do still have my 800f5.6E and f-mount 1.4TC.

Just curious on people’s thoughts.

I'd probably shoot it with one of the lenses you already have with a slight nod to the 800mm f/5.6 (do you have the matching 1.25x TC, I'd use it if you do) and not stress too much over whether you might do a touch better with a different lens. Between the shooting angle and tangle of branches there's only so much you can do about creating great images. I wouldn't go crazy worrying about peak optical quality when you already own some world class lenses given the shooting situation isn't ideal.

I'd get out in the best light and do what you can with the situation and the glass you own and would likely shoot with the F mount 800mm f/5.6 perhaps with a TC as that's a fantastic lens and gives you a bit more light to work with than your 800mm PF. If the choice was between the 600mm f/4 with stacked TCs vs the 800mm f/5.6 with one TC I'd go the latter route anytime as stacking TCs may be acceptable but generally isn't going to do as well as a high end prime with one TC.

 

[nautiboy]

I'd probably shoot it with one of the lenses you already have with a slight nod to the 800mm f/5.6 (do you have the matching 1.25x TC, I'd use it if you do) and not stress too much over whether you might do a touch better with a different lens. Between the shooting angle and tangle of branches there's only so much you can do about creating great images. I wouldn't go crazy worrying about peak optical quality when you already own some world class lenses given the shooting situation isn't ideal.

I'd get out in the best light and do what you can with the situation and the glass you own and would likely shoot with the F mount 800mm f/5.6 perhaps with a TC as that's a fantastic lens and gives you a bit more light to work with than your 800mm PF. If the choice was between the 600mm f/4 with stacked TCs vs the 800mm f/5.6 with one TC I'd go the latter route anytime as stacking TCs may be acceptable but generally isn't going to do as well as a high end prime with one TC.

Thanks Dave. Yes, I do have the matching 1.25TC for the 800f5.6. And to be clear, as obscene as it is - I own all of these lenses (800f5.6, 600f4TC, 800PF) - it's really just a choice of which to shoot with and not do a lot of lens switching experimenting. And now that you mention it, I think I'd agree with the 800f5.6+1.25TC - I used to shoot that all the time and was always impressed with how well it shot. But I've been shooting the Z glass almost exclusively for a while now, so my memories of my old F-mount glass seem to have faded. And one of the advantages of the modern Z glass - the synchro VR, is not as applicable since I can shoot from a tripod here.

Thanks for the reminder! I'd still like to hear other feedback if anyone else wants to pipe in.

 

[DRwyoming]

I think I'd agree with the 800f5.6+1.25TC - I used to shoot that all the time and was always impressed with how well it shot.

Yeah, the testing results for the 800mm f/5.6 are pretty incredible even with the matching 1.25x TC added. There are very few lenses that beat that for sharpness!

 

[ricardo00]

Are you using a tripod? And it is well stabilized? Are you still cropping a lot? Maybe worth trying the 800mm PF plus the 2.0TC? A couple examples:

https://flic.kr/p/2oq58rW

https://flic.kr/p/2opvNcq

 

[nautiboy]

Are you using a tripod? And it is well stabilized? Are you still cropping a lot? Maybe worth trying the 800mm PF plus the 2.0TC? A couple examples:

https://flic.kr/p/2oq58rW

https://flic.kr/p/2opvNcq

Yes, tripod, yes very well stabilized, yes cropping a lot. And the image is actually better than what shows up here in the forum, though it's still not what I would consider great. As I mentioned, atmospherics were really starting to play a role - it was very obvious in the viewfinder as I was shooting that there was heat distortion going on. I was shooting between noon and 2pm, because they were mostly just test/lineup experiments and that was the only time in the day I was able to go out. Most of the shots were totally unusable, but there were a few OK shots in the bunch. My next trip will be early in the morning to try and improve that situation.

Nice shots - that's a bit better than I would have expected for the 800PF+2.0TC. Maybe I'll try a few shots that way. I went to FedEx and picked up my loaner Z9. So I can put the 800PF+2TC on one body and the 800f5.6+1.25TC on the other. I might also try my 1.4 and 1.7 on the 800f5.6 if I feel like fiddling around some more and experimenting. I've had good luck with the 1.4 and 1.7 on the 800f5.6 when shooting a Peregrine Falcon nest when I had to be roughly 800' away (it's on the side of a cliff and that's the closest spot with a vantage point into the back of the cave/nest).

No matter what I do, I'm unlikely to get a great shot due to the distance, branches, etc. But the person who asked me has been watching them for weeks and really wanted some nice keepsake shots for after they leave the nest.

 

[nautiboy]

I went back out this morning. I started off with the 800f5.6+1.25TC. I'm really glad @DRwyoming reminded me of the awesomeness of this lens. And ironically this is almost the exact situation for which I decided to keep this lens after I got the 800PF - something where [email protected] was called for and weight wasn't as much an issue. But I've been so focused on the recent Z long teles that this lens just worked its way into the back of my cabinet both physically and mentally. Seems like a plot similar to Toy Story ....

Anyway, after the sun came up a little higher I switched to the 1.7TC, as that made attaining focus a little easier, with more pixels under the focus box. However as I'm reviewing the photos, it seems like maybe it was back-focusing almost the entire time. It's hard to say for certain whether it was just missed focus, or if I need to tweak the fine-tune settings a bit for this combo. Man, I was really hoping I never had to deal with fine-tune again after moving to mirrorless ..... It's really tough finding a location where you have a controlled environment, good light and a straight shot long enough to tune a 1360mm lens.

Anyhoo, as I suspected, I'm likely not going to have any truly great shots, but the neighbors were already thrilled with what I got 2 days ago, and I think these are better. Plus, how can you not love baby owl shots even if they're not "perfect"?

 

[Ltgk20]

I don't have any experience shooting anything like this, but it seems like a potentially good situation for manual focus with focus parking and/or focus magnification.

 

[nmerc_photos]

I've found that the 600TC + 1.4x + 1.4x is about dead nuts with the 800PF + 1.4x *IF* you are shooting close

For whatever reason (not sure if it's all PF lenses, or the 800PF specifically) I seem to get a lot more atmospheric distortion or something, and just generally find less keepers with the 800PF when shooting at range as opposed to the 400/600TC

Whether that is enough to warrant using the 800 5.6 or buying a 600TC, I dunno. In ideal world you wouldn't be in situations where you're shooting that far.

EDIT: just reread and saw you have the 600TC. Please bring it with one time and test it, and see if you get the same results vs the 800PF as I have...