Nikon AFS D 300 F4 with Nikon 1.4X TC mk II

[NikonForever]

Please can anyone help, I am using this lens combo on my D7200 and I am finding I am getting some camera shake even at 1/2000sec hand holding, I notice it when i pixal peep and zoom in - surely that shutter speed should be high enough to stop any shake ( I am used to long lenses coming form a Screw drive Nikon 300mm D and 300PF and also a 200-500) surely I dont need to up the shutter speed even more?

 

[DRwyoming]

Please can anyone help, I am using this lens combo on my D7200 and I am finding I am getting some camera shake even at 1/2000sec hand holding, I notice it when i pixal peep and zoom in - surely that shutter speed should be high enough to stop any shake ( I am used to long lenses coming form a Screw drive Nikon 300mm D and 300PF and also a 200-500) surely I dont need to up the shutter speed even more?

I shoot a 300mm f/4 (PF) and 1.4x TC all the time and I'd agree 1/2000" should be plenty fast enough to limit camera shake issues though not always fast enough to stop motion blur issues for things like flying birds.

But the thing is, everyone's handholding ability is different and can depend on many things. You've mentioned you have a lot of hand holding experience, have you had better luck handholding your other lenses at similar shutter speeds? IOW, are you getting sharp images at 1/2000" with your 200-500mm racked out to 400mm or 500mm but not with your 300mm AF-S lens plus TC? If so that might come down to the VR in the newer lenses including the 200-500mm giving you a bit of an edge and compensating for some camera movement.

Also are you sure it's camera movement and not soft images just from the 300mm + TC combo? Do you see characteristic motion blur/shake issues like catchlight in a subject's eye becoming elongated or subtle ghosting around sharp edges or is it just an overall softness to the images? If the latter it could be either AF errors with the lens plus TC combo or the older lens plus TC combo may just be a bit soft compared to your 200-500mm without TC. Have you checked for front or back focus issues with the 300mm AF-S lens plus TC?

I guess the common sense thing to try is just shooting the 300mm + TC combo at faster shutter speeds in good light to see if your image sharpness improves. If so, then you've more or less answered your own question and might need to seek support more often (even something as simple as taking a knee or leaning up against a tree or fence can add a lot of shooting stability) or work on the small stuff like rolling and not jabbing a finger at the shutter release, keeping the elbows tucked in tight and always seeking a very stable stance if you're not already doing all those things.

But personally I shoot a lot of 300mm + 1.4x TC images at much slower shutter speeds than 1/2000" for static or slow moving subjects though these days I am doing that with VR equipped lenses. If shooting at even faster shutter speeds doesn't sharpen up your images of static or slow moving subjects then it's quite possible it's not really motion blur you're seeing but perhaps overall image softness that might be improved with AF Fine Tuning.

Also, just to put it out there if your sharpness and blur issues are with fast moving subjects like flying birds then I'd definitely bump up your shutter speeds a bit. FWIW, I start at 1/2500" for flying birds unless I'm intentionally trying panning at slow shutter speeds for background blur and often shoot faster than that for quick flying birds with 1/3200" and 1/4000" not being unusual.

 

[NikonForever]

I shoot a 300mm f/4 (PF) and 1.4x TC all the time and I'd agree 1/2000" should be plenty fast enough to limit camera shake issues though not always fast enough to stop motion blur issues for things like flying birds.

But the thing is, everyone's handholding ability is different and can depend on many things. You've mentioned you have a lot of hand holding experience, have you had better luck handholding your other lenses at similar shutter speeds? IOW, are you getting sharp images at 1/2000" with your 200-500mm racked out to 400mm or 500mm but not with your 300mm AF-S lens plus TC? If so that might come down to the VR in the newer lenses including the 200-500mm giving you a bit of an edge and compensating for some camera movement.

Also are you sure it's camera movement and not soft images just from the 300mm + TC combo? Do you see characteristic motion blur/shake issues like catchlight in a subject's eye becoming elongated or subtle ghosting around sharp edges or is it just an overall softness to the images? If the latter it could be either AF errors with the lens plus TC combo or the older lens plus TC combo may just be a bit soft compared to your 200-500mm without TC. Have you checked for front or back focus issues with the 300mm AF-S lens plus TC?

I guess the common sense thing to try is just shooting the 300mm + TC combo at faster shutter speeds in good light to see if your image sharpness improves. If so, then you've more or less answered your own question and might need to seek support more often (even something as simple as taking a knee or leaning up against a tree or fence can add a lot of shooting stability) or work on the small stuff like rolling and not jabbing a finger at the shutter release, keeping the elbows tucked in tight and always seeking a very stable stance if you're not already doing all those things.

But personally I shoot a lot of 300mm + 1.4x TC images at much slower shutter speeds than 1/2000" for static or slow moving subjects though these days I am doing that with VR equipped lenses. If shooting at even faster shutter speeds doesn't sharpen up your images of static or slow moving subjects then it's quite possible it's not really motion blur you're seeing but perhaps overall image softness that might be improved with AF Fine Tuning.

Also, just to put it out there if your sharpness and blur issues are with fast moving subjects like flying birds then I'd definitely bump up your shutter speeds a bit. FWIW, I start at 1/2500" for flying birds unless I'm intentionally trying panning at slow shutter speeds for background blur and often shoot faster than that for quick flying birds with 1/3200" and 1/4000" not being unusual.

Thank you kindly for explaining that - I only have the 300 D prime with the mkII TC now and use it on my d7200, I also shoot planes going over and I am able to do a focus check on that compairing one wing against the other to get an idea if its front/back focusing - generaly I am following the plane before pressing the shutter (always with Back button focus) both the lens and TC was purchased second hand from a good online retailer - I have had a few decent shots including a moon shot that was very good - just I am seeing an incosistant result even the one was a bird portrait where the bird was stationary about a hundread feet from me and even that at 1/1600sec showed some blur.

 

[dabhand16]

First thing to do it to put the camera on a tripod and see what your results are like. I've got the AF-S 300mm f4 D and a 1.4x mkII TC and got good results with not only every Nikon camera I've owned, but also with my fuji XT-4.

I think aircraft will be past the infinity point of the lens so try setting the focus on infinity too for these shots.

When you say pixel peeping, what magnification are you using?

 

[aolander]

"I think aircraft will be past the infinity point of the lens so try setting the focus on infinity too for these shots."

Nothing is past infinity.

 

[aolander]

Thank you kindly for explaining that - I only have the 300 D prime with the mkII TC now and use it on my d7200, I also shoot planes going over and I am able to do a focus check on that compairing one wing against the other to get an idea if its front/back focusing - generaly I am following the plane before pressing the shutter (always with Back button focus) both the lens and TC was purchased second hand from a good online retailer - I have had a few decent shots including a moon shot that was very good - just I am seeing an incosistant result even the one was a bird portrait where the bird was stationary about a hundread feet from me and even that at 1/1600sec showed some blur.

Even with a 600mm lens, 100 feet is not going to get you a very large image of a bird, especially a small one. Not enough pixels on the bird to get a sharp image. Plus the TC will degrade the image some.

 

[EricBowles]

Please can anyone help, I am using this lens combo on my D7200 and I am finding I am getting some camera shake even at 1/2000sec hand holding, I notice it when i pixal peep and zoom in - surely that shutter speed should be high enough to stop any shake ( I am used to long lenses coming form a Screw drive Nikon 300mm D and 300PF and also a 200-500) surely I dont need to up the shutter speed even more?

I'd take a step back and try some testing to establish the combination is capable of producing a sharp image. If you can photograph a target or stuffed animal and get sharp images, the same technique should hold up with a real subject. At the very least, it will give you confidence in your technique and your gear.

Start with the combination mounted on a a tripod with your hand or a weight across the lens barrel (proper long lens technique). Choose a proper test target square to the camera at a distance of around 30-50 feet - something typical. A stuffed animal like a teddy bear has an eye and can make a good test target. Use Exposure Delay mode or mirror up. For focus, use AF-On with Live View so the camera invokes contrast detect AF. That will rule out potential issues from AF fine tuning. Take at least 10 frames to reduce the impact of variation. These test images should be the best you can do with your glass and camera.

Once you have established you can get a sharp image, change one variable at a time. Try different ISO levels and shutter speeds. Try the same shot without Exposure Delay or Mirror Up for a more practical test. Try using regular AF with a Single point to see if you need AF fine tuning (but fine tuning should be a separate exercise). Shoot at least 10 frames per test to make sure you can get the same sharp image. Assess your causes of failure if it's not sharp. Focus normally has a distribution of errors, but your hope is your distribution has 1-2 outliers but everything else is consistent and sharp.

You can test for anything you want. Just be specific and consistent so you can replicate the tests and get the same results.

You'll probably shoot at least 150-200 test images and take an hour for this exercise, but you'll confirm your gear can produce a sharp image and understand the settings where it starts to fail or lose consistency. Usually I find the issue is with me - not the camera.

If you find errors, you can address individual and specific causes of error. The test images are the proof you need to send your gear for repair.

 

[dabhand16]

Nothing is past infinity.

I did not say past infinity. I said past the infinity point.

 

[aolander]

I did not say past infinity. I said past the infinity point.

I was just kidding you. Geesh

 

[dabhand16]

I was just kidding you. Geesh

Sorry - not on the same wavelength.

 

[aolander]

Sorry - not on the same wavelength.

No problem. I shouldn't try to kid on the Internet.

 

[NikonForever]

First thing to do it to put the camera on a tripod and see what your results are like. I've got the AF-S 300mm f4 D and a 1.4x mkII TC and got good results with not only every Nikon camera I've owned, but also with my fuji XT-4.

I think aircraft will be past the infinity point of the lens so try setting the focus on infinity too for these shots.

When you say pixel peeping, what magnification are you using?

Viewed at 1.2/2.1/3.1 in Lightroom.

 

[NikonForever]

I'd take a step back and try some testing to establish the combination is capable of producing a sharp image. If you can photograph a target or stuffed animal and get sharp images, the same technique should hold up with a real subject. At the very least, it will give you confidence in your technique and your gear.

Start with the combination mounted on a a tripod with your hand or a weight across the lens barrel (proper long lens technique). Choose a proper test target square to the camera at a distance of around 30-50 feet - something typical. A stuffed animal like a teddy bear has an eye and can make a good test target. Use Exposure Delay mode or mirror up. For focus, use AF-On with Live View so the camera invokes contrast detect AF. That will rule out potential issues from AF fine tuning. Take at least 10 frames to reduce the impact of variation. These test images should be the best you can do with your glass and camera.

Once you have established you can get a sharp image, change one variable at a time. Try different ISO levels and shutter speeds. Try the same shot without Exposure Delay or Mirror Up for a more practical test. Try using regular AF with a Single point to see if you need AF fine tuning (but fine tuning should be a separate exercise). Shoot at least 10 frames per test to make sure you can get the same sharp image. Assess your causes of failure if it's not sharp. Focus normally has a distribution of errors, but your hope is your distribution has 1-2 outliers but everything else is consistent and sharp.

You can test for anything you want. Just be specific and consistent so you can replicate the tests and get the same results.

You'll probably shoot at least 150-200 test images and take an hour for this exercise, but you'll confirm your gear can produce a sharp image and understand the settings where it starts to fail or lose consistency. Usually I find the issue is with me - not the camera.

If you find errors, you can address individual and specific causes of error. The test images are the proof you need to send your gear for repair.

Im a bit space stuck as we have no where with that amount of space to do any testing from a tripod (I don't own one) the only testing I can do is with my normal shooting.

 

[EricBowles]

Viewed at 1.2/2.1/3.1 in Lightroom.

The Z6 does not have the resolution of a Z7/Z7ii/Z9/D850, but at 200% or 300% on the Z6 I'm not sure what you expect. Even at 1:1 you are looking at a highly magnified image and well beyond anything you would be able to observe in a normal print or online. Keep in mind the Z6 has an anti-aliasing filter so it is not going to look as good under high magnification as the lens and teleconverter can produce on a high resolution camera.

If it looks good at 100%, that's usually good enough.

 

[DRwyoming]

Viewed at 1.2/2.1/3.1 in Lightroom.

You may be expecting too much. Once you get to a 1:1 view (100% zoom in a tool like PS or LR) you're mapping one pixel in the image to one display pixel on your screen. When you zoom past that point you're actually splitting a pixel in your image across multiple pixels on your screen which introduces its own artifacts. Unless you're after wall sized prints that will be inspected up close, evaluating at even 1:1 is overkill but I certainly wouldn't do critical evaluations at a zoom greater than 1:1.

That said, if your primary subjects are airplanes in flight then yes you may want to bump your shutter speed up beyond 1/2000" as that's pretty similar to flying birds in terms of angular speed across the frame depending on how much of the frame those planes occupy and unless your panning technique is very smooth and you track the planes well a bit more shutter speed would likely help.

But I second Eric's earlier advice to divide and conquer. See if you get sharp images at representative working distances with your camera well supported (setting the camera on a table or bench or fence railing or other support if you don't have a tripod) of static subjects. IOW, make sure you're happy with the basic lens sharpness before diving into issues related to fast moving subjects.

 

[NikonForever]

The Z6 does not have the resolution of a Z7/Z7ii/Z9/D850, but at 200% or 300% on the Z6 I'm not sure what you expect. Even at 1:1 you are looking at a highly magnified image and well beyond anything you would be able to observe in a normal print or online. Keep in mind the Z6 has an anti-aliasing filter so it is not going to look as good under high magnification as the lens and teleconverter can produce on a high resolution camera.

If it looks good at 100%, that's usually good enough.

I have the D7200, and none of the above you mention.

 

[EricBowles]

I have the D7200, and none of the above you mention.

The D7200 is near the same resolution as the D850 and Z7/Z7ii at a pixel level. 100% is like looking at an 8 foot wide print from one of those cameras at 18 inches away. Your D7200 at 100% is like looking at a 5.5 foot wide section of that 8 foot wide print from a distance of 18 inches - still very highly magnified. It would be rare to need to view at any greater than 100%.

 

[NikonForever]

The D7200 is near the same resolution as the D850 and Z7/Z7ii at a pixel level. 100% is like looking at an 8 foot wide print from one of those cameras at 18 inches away. Your D7200 at 100% is like looking at a 5.5 foot wide section of that 8 foot wide print from a distance of 18 inches - still very highly magnified. It would be rare to need to view at any greater than 100%.

I have gone further than 1:1 if the plane/bird is quite small in the file, just to confirm where the focus has fallen, I never crop the finished file that much though - the max crop I will do is to 2000 pixels long edge.

 

[Roy]

Please can anyone help, I am using this lens combo on my D7200 and I am finding I am getting some camera shake even at 1/2000sec hand holding, I notice it when i pixal peep and zoom in - surely that shutter speed should be high enough to stop any shake ( I am used to long lenses coming form a Screw drive Nikon 300mm D and 300PF and also a 200-500) surely I dont need to up the shutter speed even more?

I still often use the 300 AFS f4 and f2.8 lenses and find them great.
A TC will soften the image slightly.
I would also check your lens alignment...

 

[O]

I shoot a 300mm f/4 (PF) and 1.4x TC all the time and I'd agree 1/2000" should be plenty fast enough to limit camera shake issues though not always fast enough to stop motion blur issues for things like flying birds.

But the thing is, everyone's handholding ability is different and can depend on many things. You've mentioned you have a lot of hand holding experience, have you had better luck handholding your other lenses at similar shutter speeds? IOW, are you getting sharp images at 1/2000" with your 200-500mm racked out to 400mm or 500mm but not with your 300mm AF-S lens plus TC? If so that might come down to the VR in the newer lenses including the 200-500mm giving you a bit of an edge and compensating for some camera movement.

Also are you sure it's camera movement and not soft images just from the 300mm + TC combo? Do you see characteristic motion blur/shake issues like catchlight in a subject's eye becoming elongated or subtle ghosting around sharp edges or is it just an overall softness to the images? If the latter it could be either AF errors with the lens plus TC combo or the older lens plus TC combo may just be a bit soft compared to your 200-500mm without TC. Have you checked for front or back focus issues with the 300mm AF-S lens plus TC?

I guess the common sense thing to try is just shooting the 300mm + TC combo at faster shutter speeds in good light to see if your image sharpness improves. If so, then you've more or less answered your own question and might need to seek support more often (even something as simple as taking a knee or leaning up against a tree or fence can add a lot of shooting stability) or work on the small stuff like rolling and not jabbing a finger at the shutter release, keeping the elbows tucked in tight and always seeking a very stable stance if you're not already doing all those things.

But personally I shoot a lot of 300mm + 1.4x TC images at much slower shutter speeds than 1/2000" for static or slow moving subjects though these days I am doing that with VR equipped lenses. If shooting at even faster shutter speeds doesn't sharpen up your images of static or slow moving subjects then it's quite possible it's not really motion blur you're seeing but perhaps overall image softness that might be improved with AF Fine Tuning.

Also, just to put it out there if your sharpness and blur issues are with fast moving subjects like flying birds then I'd definitely bump up your shutter speeds a bit. FWIW, I start at 1/2500" for flying birds unless I'm intentionally trying panning at slow shutter speeds for background blur and often shoot faster than that for quick flying birds with 1/3200" and 1/4000" not being unusual.

Well covered well said.

In relation to the 300 F4 D and Tc How long has it been an issue.
The TC II i am told dis not as good as the TC III ?
The other thing is whats the light like.

I never shoot anything that's moving under 1/3200" and 1/4000 with a floated iso...........even more so with a D7100 and even more so again with a TC 1.4
I mean its a big ask, as mentioned above different people have different muscle memory or shake levels based on lighter or heavier or differently balanced gear, we are all differnet.
As suggested above try the faster shutter speed for a start.

Only an opinion

 

[dabhand16]

The other thing is whats the light like.

I saw a test of the Nikon TCII v TC III and the result was yes, the TCIII were better than the TCII by about 5%, but only on the latest lenses. While improvement could be measured with older lenses, it was so small as to be unnoticeable to the eye.