Nikon D5 and D6 users: Like for BIF?

[padrepaul]

Hi all,

For the past year and a half I've shot with Nikon's D850 and D500. I have the grips for both. Very happy with IQ, so not necessarily looking to add more gear. Excited to read of the Z9 rumors too though I wouldn't get any Z glass and just use adaptors.

My favorite photography is all things birds. I got a great deal on a refurbished long nikon glass the 800 5.6 which caused me to jump from Canon a year and a half ago. No complaints; I had the 7DII and it was a good workhorse, but the 90D just wasn't all that impressive, and the 5D IV was just so-so on AF for birds in flight. Heard good things so got some good deals on refurbished gear, took a hit on selling all my Canon stuff. At the time no clue about the R5 but hindsight is 20/20.

I use the D850 as my primary body. It is fine for birds. The D500 is a backup but when hitting the road to a national park, I'll keep it hooked up to the long lens for photogrpahing wildlife or coming across a cool bird as I'm shooting mainly landscapes out in Yellowstone or the Badlands.

Recently I've considered the D6, but as my gear is nearly paid off not sure I need to trade in the D500 for it. My thought process was simply a solid body with great AF and a couple of less lenses. I am also not going to invest in Z series glass, just too steep and too much to lug around. However if the adaptor works fine and AF is great and it's good for bird photographers or has a bird setting like the Sony A1 that would be great.

Noise reduction software has come a long way too; very happy with Topaz DeNoise.

I'm a bit obsessed with bird photography, and am inclined to just wait for the Z9 at this point and then sell the D500. However just curious if there's much of a noticeable difference in AF in locking on to birds especially eagles and owls in flight on the D6 for those who have shot with it. I did watch Steve's video too on youtube.

I could care less about video, only stills. And I'm thinking of standing in the cold on a winter day waiting for the owl to move and then going into "machine gun" mode hoping for good shots. Again both the D850 and D500 are great; D500 seems to die much more quick with battery life though. If the D6 is a great AF camera I'd consider it, but then would I just be back at a camera store taking a hit of a 1000 USD or so wanting a Z9.

Thanks for any thoughts. I know D5s are out there too.

I took the below image of a hunting great gray last month; about two or three of a 10 shot burst were usable, but as any photographer knows you're trying to follow this guy quick with a long telephoto. And this image was also "screwed up" by me in I had it on Single Point AF not group as he was perched but I think this is a pretty decent image.

Of course the extra FPS is nice too.

But is the D6 really more of a photojournalist and sports photographer camera, not a bird photographer camera is what I ask myself, and is the Z9 going to work flawlessly with a long telephoto built for the DSLR?

I use my pictures for my website, for cards, and for competitions and for articles as well, but it's of course not a full time job as hardly any photos sell and it's nice to compete in salons and calendar contests and share them in the magazine.

Thanks!
- Paul

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[DRwyoming]

Fantastic Great Gray shot!

Thanks for any thoughts. I know D5s are out there too.

The D5 is my go-to camera for birds in flight or any low light wildlife work. I've also shot with a friend's D6 which has a few more features including additional user definable AF Area Modes but the two are similar. I also have a D500 and used to have a D850. IMO, the D5 (or D6) is hands down a better camera for fast moving wildlife, particularly in lower light situations which is often when I'm out shooting.

The D5 AF system is noticeably better than the D850 but the overall feel of the camera, the extra FPS and the shutter is just nicer in the D5. When I ran them side by side the D850 shutter sounded loud and clunky compared to the D5. Of course the obvious advantage of the D850 is if you'll do a lot of deep cropping where those extra pixels are very useful but I work hard to fill the frame or at least keep my cropping to a minimum and haven't missed the extra resolution of the D850 since I sold mine.

The D5 files also take very well to noise reduction and I'm amazed at some of the high ISO twilight shots I've captured with the D5 pushing ISO up well beyond what I was comfortable with when shooting the D850 or D500.

So no, I wouldn't say the D5/D6 are purely photojournalist cameras and both are excellent wildlife DSLRs especially for fast action or low light situations.

Whether the Z9 is better all around and works to full spec with adapted F mount lenses is of course the million dollar question. A lot of us hope it will but even if it does all we expect and more it will likely be a while until most of us can actually purchase one. From that standpoint you might look for a good deal on a used low mileage D5 or D6 as they really are great cameras and if the Z9 is all we hope then perhaps you trade up when the time comes but will still likely get a year or two and a lot of images out of the DSLR in the meantime.

 

[padrepaul]

Fantastic Great Gray shot!

The D5 is my go-to camera for birds in flight or any low light wildlife work. I've also shot with a friend's D6 which has a few more features including additional user definable AF Area Modes but the two are similar. I also have a D500 and used to have a D850. IMO, the D5 (or D6) is hands down a better camera for fast moving wildlife, particularly in lower light situations which is often when I'm out shooting.

The D5 AF system is noticeably better than the D850 but the overall feel of the camera, the extra FPS and the shutter is just nicer in the D5. When I ran them side by side the D850 shutter sounded loud and clunky compared to the D5. Of course the obvious advantage of the D850 is if you'll do a lot of deep cropping where those extra pixels are very useful but I work hard to fill the frame or at least keep my cropping to a minimum and haven't missed the extra resolution of the D850 since I sold mine.

The D5 files also take very well to noise reduction and I'm amazed at some of the high ISO twilight shots I've captured with the D5 pushing ISO up well beyond what I was comfortable with when shooting the D850 or D500.

So no, I wouldn't say the D5/D6 are purely photojournalist cameras and both are excellent wildlife DSLRs especially for fast action or low light situations.

Whether the Z9 is better all around and works to full spec with adapted F mount lenses is of course the million dollar question. A lot of us hope it will but even if it does all we expect and more it will likely be a while until most of us can actually purchase one. From that standpoint you might look for a good deal on a used low mileage D5 or D6 as they really are great cameras and if the Z9 is all we hope then perhaps you trade up when the time comes but will still likely get a year or two and a lot of images out of the DSLR in the meantime.

Thanks, I may end up getting a D6 for my upcoming road trip out to Yellowstone/Badlands/Tetons. In winter most anytime I have a day off I'm standing in the cold with my camera looking at nearby wintering eagles along the river or going "up north" for an overnight for owls; it's often cloudy. The D850 handles them great, and love Topaz DeNoise too. I'd be hopeful the Z9 would be around by next winter if announced in say September. But again the million dollar question is availbility with a pandemic and parts shortages. And will the long glass work fine with the adaptor too.

Lots to think about and thanks for the advice. Moose Peterson wrote me back too and really likes the D6, but I do think it's his job in a sense to plug them too as he's their equivalent of an ambassador of light.

 

[Ralph]

Hi all,

For the past year and a half I've shot with Nikon's D850 and D500. I have the grips for both. Very happy with IQ, so not necessarily looking to add more gear. Excited to read of the Z9 rumors too though I wouldn't get any Z glass and just use adaptors.

My favorite photography is all things birds. I got a great deal on a refurbished long nikon glass the 800 5.6 which caused me to jump from Canon a year and a half ago. No complaints; I had the 7DII and it was a good workhorse, but the 90D just wasn't all that impressive, and the 5D IV was just so-so on AF for birds in flight. Heard good things so got some good deals on refurbished gear, took a hit on selling all my Canon stuff. At the time no clue about the R5 but hindsight is 20/20.

I use the D850 as my primary body. It is fine for birds. The D500 is a backup but when hitting the road to a national park, I'll keep it hooked up to the long lens for photogrpahing wildlife or coming across a cool bird as I'm shooting mainly landscapes out in Yellowstone or the Badlands.

Recently I've considered the D6, but as my gear is nearly paid off not sure I need to trade in the D500 for it. My thought process was simply a solid body with great AF and a couple of less lenses. I am also not going to invest in Z series glass, just too steep and too much to lug around. However if the adaptor works fine and AF is great and it's good for bird photographers or has a bird setting like the Sony A1 that would be great.

Noise reduction software has come a long way too; very happy with Topaz DeNoise.

I'm a bit obsessed with bird photography, and am inclined to just wait for the Z9 at this point and then sell the D500. However just curious if there's much of a noticeable difference in AF in locking on to birds especially eagles and owls in flight on the D6 for those who have shot with it. I did watch Steve's video too on youtube.

I could care less about video, only stills. And I'm thinking of standing in the cold on a winter day waiting for the owl to move and then going into "machine gun" mode hoping for good shots. Again both the D850 and D500 are great; D500 seems to die much more quick with battery life though. If the D6 is a great AF camera I'd consider it, but then would I just be back at a camera store taking a hit of a 1000 USD or so wanting a Z9.

Thanks for any thoughts. I know D5s are out there too.

I took the below image of a hunting great gray last month; about two or three of a 10 shot burst were usable, but as any photographer knows you're trying to follow this guy quick with a long telephoto. And this image was also "screwed up" by me in I had it on Single Point AF not group as he was perched but I think this is a pretty decent image.

Of course the extra FPS is nice too.

But is the D6 really more of a photojournalist and sports photographer camera, not a bird photographer camera is what I ask myself, and is the Z9 going to work flawlessly with a long telephoto built for the DSLR?

I use my pictures for my website, for cards, and for competitions and for articles as well, but it's of course not a full time job as hardly any photos sell and it's nice to compete in salons and calendar contests and share them in the magazine.

Thanks!
- Paul

View attachment 23396

Great shot Paul!

 

[Steve]

What DR said

In my experience, the D5 and D6 are fantastic BIF cameras as long as you can adequately fill the frame. Their AF systems are faster and more aggressive then the D500 and D850 (especially with the D6). They are great in low light they handle well, the virtually unlimited buffer is great, the low blackout is handy (really good in the D6) and overall they just work.

Plus, the color fidelity at higher ISOs with these cameras is second to none (including the Canon R5 and Sony a1).

Again the biggest trick is keeping away from the crop tool. Not much resolution to spare and when you start cropping, you surrender the noise advantages as well. But man, when you can fill the frame, these things are magic.

 

[FB101]

D500 seems to die much more quick with battery life though.

A couple thoughts on that since I had the same issue. First, make sure your camera is in airplane mode so that it doesn't continuously look for networks and try to connect to things (actually helps both the D500 and D850)
Second, if you haven't done it yet, upgrade the battery to the "pro" En-EL 18, even a 3rd party one like Wasabi (way cheaper than Nikon's) - it lasts much longer and is far more resilient in the cold. Now that both my D850 and D500 have those batteries, the D500 actually lasts longer than the D850 but both last a full day of intense shooting on a single battery. The upgrade is even more valuable on the D850 as it boosts FPS and I find also boosts AF speed (maybe I am dreaming but i find the D850 more reactive when I use the grip with EN-EL18 in it).
And the even better news is that those batteries will work in the Z9 as well (maybe not with all the features, we already know the new EN-EL18x of the Z9 will charge in camera via USB and the old ones don't - time will tell, but Nikon said the existing batteries will work in the Z9).

 

[Charles Loy]

I use the D5 and D6 (no longer own the D5). Plus I have owned 3 of the D850 cameras. <-- more on that last.

The D5 is superior to the D850 for snapping to focus and holding it. Can't go wrong with a nice used D5. The D6 is better, noticeable better, in my opinion. Having used the D5 for several years, I took the plunge late Dec 2020 for the D6 as I like the newer stuff. Best camera ever, I done myself good for getting it. The D6 was slaughtered on the www and youtube before it was released, vary shameful that happened by foolish motormouths. I just finished my second firmware update, they keep adding to the menus. This camera is just amazing. You will forget the 850 big pixel count (the reason many bought it) once you get the D5 or D6. The 5 and 6 are more robust, just holding it is a joy. Use it for a hammer if you forget the tent stake hammer..

I was on the first shipment of D850 cameras. I was shooting the D5 then too. The D850 shutter sounded louder and clunky to the D5. I simply could not get past that and returned the camera for a refund. Later after the buzz kept building I got another. Same complaint, great photos, decent focus tracking but just disliked the shutter to to point I dumped it on FM forum.

Now the 3rd D850. I recently scored this used, the owner listed it as new, under 900 exposures taken, and it was at a great price. That same day the B-H had their Vello D850 high speed grip listed on the daily sale for 60 bucks. I bought both. Nikon has made a change to the shutter. This is as smooth and almost as quiet as the D810! I love it for events and people shooting. Plus, the under 900 frames used with it, actually 62 (yes, sixty two). It was a new camera. I just got back for the Sturgis bike rally, used it for all the 2000 photos. Happy! Great camera, but not for BIF and low light, I will use the D6.

 

[NorthernFocus]

...Now the 3rd D850...Nikon has made a change to the shutter. This is as smooth and almost as quiet as the D810!...

Very interesting. This is the first time I've ever heard this. Shutter noise is my only complaint with the 850. I wonder if there is a way to tell by serial number which have the newer shutter?

 

[padrepaul]

What DR said

In my experience, the D5 and D6 are fantastic BIF cameras as long as you can adequately fill the frame. Their AF systems are faster and more aggressive then the D500 and D850 (especially with the D6). They are great in low light they handle well, the virtually unlimited buffer is great, the low blackout is handy (really good in the D6) and overall they just work.

Plus, the color fidelity at higher ISOs with these cameras is second to none (including the Canon R5 and Sony a1).

Again the biggest trick is keeping away from the crop tool. Not much resolution to spare and when you start cropping, you surrender the noise advantages as well. But man, when you can fill the frame, these things are magic.

Hi Steve,
Thanks so much for the reply. I did watch your review; there's not much out there online from what I can find directly comparing the D500 and D850 and D5/6 for birds, but at this time I'm leaning a bit towards getting a refurbished D6 at a discount, selling my D500 and FX glass, and quite possibly preordering the Z9 when it's out and then selling the D6 only if the Z9 is amazing and works flawlessly with the 800. I shot for about 7 years with a 7D II and Canon's 800 and got some great images. I do think the D6 from what I've read can handle birds well, and in your review you noted the perched bird taking off. I'm often sitting there watching an eagle or owl and waiting for him to fly, and as soon as he does it's start shooting and hope for keepers. Hopefully the added frames per second would help too I think. I do have good NR software, but as owls are most active at sunrise and sunset you're often shooting in the dark. I usually crop ever so slightly but do that more with smaller birds, though the 800 allows you to get close, and the mini tele converter it comes with is pretty cool too.

I'm guessing buying a D6 at a discount, and possibly selling it within a year and getting a Z9 would be at least $1000 hit, so it is a bit of a dillema. But I think paired with the D850 it'll be a good combo, hopefully the Z9 isn't then announced a day later with bird focus settings

Thanks,
Paul

 

[DavidT]

If you want something now I’d find a very nice used D5. This way if for some reason you want to sell it in the future the cost will be less. If you’re willing to spend the money on the Z9 and if it’s 45MP I’d think you could sell the D850 and D500 and shoot the Z9 alongside the D5. I liked the ability to crop with a D850 but the af performance on BIF isn’t that great when compared to the D5/6. I suspect the Z9 will be even better and will have eye af tracking. All assumptions but very likely.

Like others have said D5/6 for when you can fill the frame and with the 800 and it’s tele I’d think you could. For cropping D850 or use the D500 without much cropping. The Z9 will likely be like the a1 as a do it all camera.

 

[padrepaul]

If you want something now I’d find a very nice used D5. This way if for some reason you want to sell it in the future the cost will be less. If you’re willing to spend the money on the Z9 and if it’s 45MP I’d think you could sell the D850 and D500 and shoot the Z9 alongside the D5. I liked the ability to crop with a D850 but the af performance on BIF isn’t that great when compared to the D5/6. I suspect the Z9 will be even better and will have eye af tracking. All assumptions but very likely.

Like others have said D5/6 for when you can fill the frame and with the 800 and it’s tele I’d think you could. For cropping D850 or use the D500 without much cropping. The Z9 will likely be like the a1 as a do it all camera.

Thanks, I've got my eye on a refurbished D6 which is actually the same price as used D5s...been following the rumors on the Z9 and it's rumored to have animal eye tracking but not bird eye tracking but of course who knows and that could be the same, a bird is an animal. I'll be real curious about production as Nikon is notoriously slow on new bodies being available and the supply chain issues are real. But how many will they initially produce and while people are anxious for them, how big is the acutal market for people willing to drop 7 dimes on a new body? It's got to be a very specialized and small market you'd think.

 

[fcotterill]

Hello
It is refreshing to read sane feedback on the D6, as I fully agree the reception of the D6 across the www has been ridicolous. (Analogous to a manager in a tacky fastfood roadhouse casting judgment on the Savoy Hotel). The completely new AF system has always stood out as a game changer in its own right. The diversity of features in these complex professional cameras takes even the experienced professional time to optimize properly by rigorous testing on challenging subjects. Experience is crucial, as is made very clear in your parallel FM thread.

In honesty I have not used a D6, but I would get one today if I could find a D6 at an affordable price. But some weeks shooting a D5 primarily on challenging birds and shy mammals has been an eye opener, compared to my 4 yr old D850 (and I had a D500 traded in for a Z7), besides a D780. These followed on a D7200 etc and older film Nikon's, a succession of which I'd relied on (since 1984). Yes, the cropping penalties are very real with a D5 but I often use a 400f2.8E + TC2 III to strive to get sufficient pixels-on-ze-duck! Your 800 f5.6E is a Nikon flagship of flagships, and it brings along its bespoke TC125

Compared to my experience with the D850 and D500, the more comprehensive custom options of the D5, especially Recall_Shooting Functions are big advantages. So are the two additional "thread" Group AF modes HL (Horizontal) and VL (Vertical). So, I agree with what the experienced photographers say wrt D5 vs D6. The significant advantages of the D6 over a D5 make sense considering the potentials one gets in upgraded D5 AF system AND expanded customization. It will also be interesting to see more rigorous testing of the D6 that evaluates its latest firmware - considering the tracking abilities that Moose Peterson posted recently [we discussed this here recently].

I suspect the D6 AF might have received a silent upgrade (or more) perhaps borrowing tracking code from the now mature Z9 algorithms. So this is similar to your intriguing report on the D850 shutter.... Nikon is notorious for fixes, upgrades etc of released products, but does not publicise what they have done; and this is yet another reason to keep firmware current. [Somewhat cynically, I attribute this culture to 'aspergic' engineers obsessing over bigger projects, so they bumble along oblivious. After all, such a minor fix is surely too trivial to mention to their clients! Then there's Nikon marketing - infamous for ignoring low hanging fruit]

I use the D5 and D6 (no longer own the D5). Plus I have owned 3 of the D850 cameras. <-- more on that last.

The D5 is superior to the D850 for snapping to focus and holding it. Can't go wrong with a nice used D5. The D6 is better, noticeable better, in my opinion. Having used the D5 for several years, I took the plunge late Dec 2020 for the D6 as I like the newer stuff. Best camera ever, I done myself good for getting it. The D6 was slaughtered on the www and youtube before it was released, vary shameful that happened by foolish motormouths. I just finished my second firmware update, they keep adding to the menus. This camera is just amazing. You will forget the 850 big pixel count (the reason many bought it) once you get the D5 or D6. The 5 and 6 are more robust, just holding it is a joy. Use it for a hammer if you forget the tent stake hammer..

I was on the first shipment of D850 cameras. I was shooting the D5 then too. The D850 shutter sounded louder and clunky to the D5. I simply could not get past that and returned the camera for a refund. Later after the buzz kept building I got another. Same complaint, great photos, decent focus tracking but just disliked the shutter to to point I dumped it on FM forum.

Now the 3rd D850. I recently scored this used, the owner listed it as new, under 900 exposures taken, and it was at a great price. That same day the B-H had their Vello D850 high speed grip listed on the daily sale for 60 bucks. I bought both. Nikon has made a change to the shutter. This is as smooth and almost as quiet as the D810! I love it for events and people shooting. Plus, the under 900 frames used with it, actually 62 (yes, sixty two). It was a new camera. I just got back for the Sturgis bike rally, used it for all the 2000 photos. Happy! Great camera, but not for BIF and low light, I will use the D6.

 

[padrepaul]

Hello
It is refreshing to read sane feedback on the D6, as I fully agree the reception of the D6 across the www has been ridicolous. (Analogous to a manager in a tacky fastfood roadhouse casting judgment on the Savoy Hotel). The completely new AF system has always stood out as a game changer in its own right. These diversity of features in these complex professional cameras takes even the experienced professional time to optimize properly by rigorous testing on challenging subjects. Experience is crucial, as is made very clear in your parallel FM thread.

In honesty I have not used a D6, but I would get one today if I could find a D6 at an affordable price. But some weeks shooting a D5 primarily on challenging birds and shy mammals has been an eye opener, compared to my 4 yr old D850 (and I had a D500 traded in for a Z7), besides a D780. These followed on a D7200 etc and older film Nikon's, which I've relied on since 1984. Yes, the cropping penalties are very real with a D5 but I often use a 400f2.8E + TC2 III to strive to get sufficient pixels-on-ze-duck! Your 800 f5.6E is a Nikon flagship of flagships, and it brings along its bespoke TC125

Compared to my experience with the D850 and D500, the more comprehensive custom options, especially Recall_Shooting Functions are big advantages. So are the two additional "thread" Group AF modes HL (Horizontal) and VL (Vertical). So, I agree with what the experienced photographers say. The significant advantages of the D6 vs D5 make sense considering the potential to upgrade the powerful D5 AF system AND expand the customization. It will also be interesting to see more rigorous testing of the D6 with its latest firmware considering the tracking abilities that Moose Peterson posted recently [we discussed this here recently].

I suspect the D6 AF may have received a silent upgrades borrowing tracking code from the now mature Z9 algorithms. So this is similar to your intriguing report on the D850 shutter, Nikon is notorious for fixes, upgrades etc of released products. This is yet another reason to keep firmware current. [Somewhat cynically, I attribute this culture to 'aspergic' engineers obsessing over bigger projects, so they bumble along oblivious as by comparison such a minor fix is too trivial to mention to their clients, and Nikon marketing is no less notorious for ignoring low hanging fruit]

Thanks, yes everything I read at first was Nikon blew it and the D6 is awful and just too few megapixels what are they thinking.

I did post on FM too, trying to get as many opinions as possible to make a decision but of course am now still confused as I've heard both ends of the spectrum

The 800 is a lovely lens and I jumped to Nikon beacause of it; I thought it was a pricing error but it was in fact a real price refurbished even much less than a used copy and it's been great. Shooting with the 7DII and 800 on Canon's side that I got used was just fine, but I'd heard AF was better on Nikon via the forums on Art Morris' site. Artie then of course jumped to Sony, but still likes Nikon apparently. I have his guide to the D850 which is helpful.

I do crop most images just a bit; even with the 800 but its usually 10 to 20%; on a perched bird I want no trees or distractions, and the bird can fill the frame but to draw the persons attention to it I do crop just a tiny amount. So hopefully it won't be an issue.

My concern as I shared was mainly with "animal" AF on mirrorless will that make it vastly better; will those extra MP matter, and most importantly would the 800 5.6 work flawlessly on a mirrorless body. It appears to be announced soon too so does that mean it'll be avaialble within 6 months? It would be nice to have it in hand in winter for bird photography.

Moose did email me which was nice and replied and said the AF system would "blow away" what I have in the D850 and D500. Not sure about that one as I'm happy with them. So not sure if this is a necessary expense or not. I do know if the Z9 were incredible I'll probably get that and then would sell the D6 so that would be a hit I'd guess of $1000 or $1500.

I'm certianly not made of money and am just now at the point where my gear is nearly paid off, so I'd be taking advantage of 0%, and some $200 cash back offers from credit card companies and then a refurbished price on the D6. I may get it if the AF is in fact better and it's solid for the birds. Much appreciate the advice and lots to consider!

Take care,
Paul

 

[DavidT]

Thanks, I've got my eye on a refurbished D6 which is actually the same price as used D5s...been following the rumors on the Z9 and it's rumored to have animal eye tracking but not bird eye tracking but of course who knows and that could be the same, a bird is an animal. I'll be real curious about production as Nikon is notoriously slow on new bodies being available and the supply chain issues are real. But how many will they initially produce and while people are anxious for them, how big is the acutal market for people willing to drop 7 dimes on a new body? It's got to be a very specialized and small market you'd think.

Well if you can get a D6 for price of a D5 buy it. My train of thought is if the Z9 delivers you’ll move onto it and selling any F Mount bodies will likely cost you money. Buy any F Mount body you can get out of without taking a bath. As to the $7k price, they will sell more then they can make if the camera is as good as rumors are claiming. Sony a1 is an example. $6,500 plus a grip and a new card and your at $7,500 plus tax and Sony reported the demand was 3 times what they forecasted. Build it and they will come.

 

[FB101]

Thanks, yes everything I read at first was Nikon blew it and the D6 is awful and just too few megapixels what are they thinking.

I did post on FM too, trying to get as many opinions as possible to make a decision but of course am now still confused as I've heard both ends of the spectrum

The 800 is a lovely lens and I jumped to Nikon beacause of it; I thought it was a pricing error but it was in fact a real price refurbished even much less than a used copy and it's been great. Shooting with the 7DII and 800 on Canon's side that I got used was just fine, but I'd heard AF was better on Nikon via the forums on Art Morris' site. Artie then of course jumped to Sony, but still likes Nikon apparently. I have his guide to the D850 which is helpful.

I do crop most images just a bit; even with the 800 but its usually 10 to 20%; on a perched bird I want no trees or distractions, and the bird can fill the frame but to draw the persons attention to it I do crop just a tiny amount. So hopefully it won't be an issue.

My concern as I shared was mainly with "animal" AF on mirrorless will that make it vastly better; will those extra MP matter, and most importantly would the 800 5.6 work flawlessly on a mirrorless body. It appears to be announced soon too so does that mean it'll be avaialble within 6 months? It would be nice to have it in hand in winter for bird photography.

Moose did email me which was nice and replied and said the AF system would "blow away" what I have in the D850 and D500. Not sure about that one as I'm happy with them. So not sure if this is a necessary expense or not. I do know if the Z9 were incredible I'll probably get that and then would sell the D6 so that would be a hit I'd guess of $1000 or $1500.

I'm certianly not made of money and am just now at the point where my gear is nearly paid off, so I'd be taking advantage of 0%, and some $200 cash back offers from credit card companies and then a refurbished price on the D6. I may get it if the AF is in fact better and it's solid for the birds. Much appreciate the advice and lots to consider!

Take care,
Paul

It seems you have no issues filling your full frame, then the D6 is an upgrade over anything else in the market short of the A1, R5 and future Z9. And on many aspects, it does outperform even the R5 and A1.
If your biggest issue is AF acquisition and tracking BIF rather than getting close enough, then the D6 will improve your keeper rate significantly over a D500 or D850.

Nobody knows how well legacy F glass will work on that new generation of Z cameras (well, the engineers know and the early testers but the rest of the world is still guessing). Everybody hopes that Nikon addressed that issue but they have been very quiet about actual AF attributes. If you are an optimist, it is because it will be their strongest feature yet - if you are a pessimist, it's because they are still lagging. AF has been one of Nikon's strength for the last 20 years - I can't see them easily giving up on that crown and they may suck at marketing, but they are really good engineers so right now I am betting my money on the Z9. What I can't say is for how long I will need to hold my breath before a Z9 is available and whether my patience can last that long ;-)

So it all comes down to time and hope. Do you have time to wait and see how it plays out? Do you believe Nikon will hit it out of the park with the Z9? If you answer No or simply "maybe" to either, grab a D6 and live very happy indeed.

 

[Charles Loy]

I see you have been told many many times that the D6 is better focusing than the D850/500.. Believe it, it is, mine is. You will like the brighter view too..

RE: the D6. I may get it if the AF is in fact better and it's solid for the birds. Much appreciate the advice and lots to consider!

 

[padrepaul]

It seems you have no issues filling your full frame, then the D6 is an upgrade over anything else in the market short of the A1, R5 and future Z9. And on many aspects, it does outperform even the R5 and A1.
If your biggest issue is AF acquisition and tracking BIF rather than getting close enough, then the D6 will improve your keeper rate significantly over a D500 or D850.

Nobody knows how well legacy F glass will work on that new generation of Z cameras (well, the engineers know and the early testers but the rest of the world is still guessing). Everybody hopes that Nikon addressed that issue but they have been very quiet about actual AF attributes. If you are an optimist, it is because it will be their strongest feature yet - if you are a pessimist, it's because they are still lagging. AF has been one of Nikon's strength for the last 20 years - I can't see them easily giving up on that crown and they may suck at marketing, but they are really good engineers so right now I am betting my money on the Z9. What I can't say is for how long I will need to hold my breath before a Z9 is available and whether my patience can last that long ;-)

So it all comes down to time and hope. Do you have time to wait and see how it plays out? Do you believe Nikon will hit it out of the park with the Z9? If you answer No or simply "maybe" to either, grab a D6 and live very happy indeed.

Thanks for the input. No problems on AF aquisition really with the D850; NR software handles it well. Noise is more of an issue on the D500, and battery life. AF is great on Nikon which is why I switched from team Canon. Bird photography is my passion, and with my grip it's doing just fine, but it seems the consensus is yes the AF is a bit better on the D6, and especially when it's getting dark and Mr. Owl is going on his hunt I may be thankful for the D6. Is the AF going to be that much better on the Z9, who knows, but I do know I'll never buy Z glass as I'd rather not be in debt for the next 20 years and love the glass I have.

Thanks for the input. - Paul

 

[padrepaul]

I see you have been told many many times that the D6 is better focusing than the D850/500.. Believe it, it is, mine is. You will like the brighter view too..

RE: the D6. I may get it if the AF is in fact better and it's solid for the birds. Much appreciate the advice and lots to consider!

Thanks, which is a little confusing admittedly because I was under the impression is was the exact same AF system across the three bodies. It's nice to know it's not just a photojournalist camera or sports camera.

 

[DRwyoming]

You will like the brighter view too..

I agree, that's one of the nicest things when I switch to my D5, the viewfinder is MUCH brighter than looking through the D850 or D500 viewfinder.

 

[FB101]

Thanks, which is a little confusing admittedly because I was under the impression is was the exact same AF system across the three bodies. It's nice to know it's not just a photojournalist camera or sports camera.

“Derived from” not identical
one of the many things Nikon did not disclose is their choice of dedicated AF processor on those bodies. We know there is one, but they could be different. We don’t know what algorithm runs on each camera either. We don’t know to what extent a better quality mirror or pentaprism may affect the light path for AF. And we don’t know to what tolerances each are built...

 

[fcotterill]

I read this review soon after it was published belatedly, well over a year after the D5 was released into the wild (with the excellent D500 at the telephoto), and the D850 was launched Aug/Sep2017. Having used a D5 intensively 3 years later I recognize the insight of the reviewer who clearly worked the D5 hard before finishing his review....
Too few appreciate there is much more to a Nikon Pro camera than spec sheets. https://www.dslrbodies.com/cameras/older-dslr-reviews/nikon-d5-review.html

And his D5 ebook is well worth the cost, and should also extend to many aspects of the D6, even though much of the AF system is very different. This overlap applies to the sensor where it helps to understand how noise etc of the D5/D6 sensor relates to ISO etc

 

[luckmurph]

Love my D5 for BIF coupled with the 500pf its sublime!! Both birds are so quick the camera just locks on! not used my D500 since getting the D5, so much so I've just px it for a z6ii for stationary wildlife!

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[padrepaul]

I read this review soon after it was published finally, well over a year after the D5 was released into the wild (with the excellent D500), and the D850 was launched Aug/Sep2017. Having used a D5 intensively 3 years later I recognize the insight of the reviewer who clearly worked the D5 hard before finishing his review....
Too few appreciate there is much more to a Nikon Pro camera than spec sheets. https://www.dslrbodies.com/cameras/older-dslr-reviews/nikon-d5-review.html

And his D5 ebook is well worth the cost, and should also extend to many aspects of the D6, even though much of the AF system is very different. This overlap applies to the sensor where it helps to understand how noise etc of the D5/D6 sensor relates to ISO etc

Thank you. Do you have any recommendations on a settings guide for Birds on a D5 or D6 for the menus? I have one for the D850 so hopefully it's pretty similar.

 

[DRwyoming]

Do you have any recommendations on a settings guide for Birds on a D5 or D6 for the menus? I have one for the D850 so hopefully it's pretty similar.

For the most part D850 BIF settings are the same with a D5/D6. The D5 does introduce some unusually shaped and handy Group AF Areas useful for things like panning with horizontally flying birds. The D6 takes that a step further and allows you to customize two Group AF Areas which can also be very handy for certain BIF situations. Here's a look at the customizable Group Areas supported by the D6:

That's taken from this Nikon page which has more discussion on D5/D6 AF settings: https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_solutions/d6_tips/af-area_mode/index.htm#auto-area_af

Other than the new Group Areas I used the same AF settings with my D850 and D5.

 

[padrepaul]

What DR said

In my experience, the D5 and D6 are fantastic BIF cameras as long as you can adequately fill the frame. Their AF systems are faster and more aggressive then the D500 and D850 (especially with the D6). They are great in low light they handle well, the virtually unlimited buffer is great, the low blackout is handy (really good in the D6) and overall they just work.

Plus, the color fidelity at higher ISOs with these cameras is second to none (including the Canon R5 and Sony a1).

Again the biggest trick is keeping away from the crop tool. Not much resolution to spare and when you start cropping, you surrender the noise advantages as well. But man, when you can fill the frame, these things are magic.

Thanks again Steve, question for you and any other D850 users do you like to move to the D850 for when light is better and photographing smaller perched birds like warblers, or tend to shoot with the D6 all day? I was used to the 7D II and 800 for years and it worked fine and I still had plenty of detail, just not sure if less megapixels is an issue as with warblers even at 800mm there is some minor cropping, but not much, again more like 20% perhaps at most as the bird needs breathing room and you want to see the environment around the bird too itself.