Nikon D500 Perched birds

[Telscossie]

HI I wonder if anyone can help me I have got a D500 that I use with a 500mm pf lens , I have trouble keeping focus on perched birds and birds on the floor walking around, Settings I use for this is AF-C back button focus , single point , between 500-1000 shutter speed depending if its perched or walking around , is there any other settings I could adjust that would help it stay on focus and not lock on to anything else around the bird , or maybe its just me LOL , thanks for any help received .

 

[Ralph]

Try using the VR sport. It helps steady the bird in the viewfinder. I almost always use VR. I had been using the Normal VR setting but every now and then it would cause the subject to jump around in the viewfinder as I pressed the shutter. I went to the VR sport setting and have never had that issue. Highly recommend the VR. It helps a lot.

Try using the VR setting first but if you are still having issues staying on target switch from single point focus to dynamic 25 point. That should help. But try VR first.

 

[Telscossie]

Thanks will give it a try

 

[Warren D]

Shutter speed seems a bit low. As said above, you can try VR as it will help you keep the af point on the subject. Birds move fast, even when perched. I've got more than a few shots of a perched bird with a blurry head as they they saw something as I released the shutter. I normally try to shoot upwards of 1/1600-1/2500 for perched birds and still get some blur due to subject movement. Only time they seem to stay still is when sleeping.....

 

[Venkatesh VT]

I was earlier using VR normal and I never got sharp images.Then I started using VR off and I got sharper images.Finally I tried VR Sport and I got even more sharper images.
If the light is good I use shutter speeds higher than 1600 or even 1600.If the light is bad I use 1/ 500.
Hence try various permutation combinations and see what works for you .
The more you experiment the better you will get to know the gear and better the results are.
It sounds like a cliché.But I have found it to be true

 

[gbodave]

Single point AF gives the most control over where the focus point is placed. If it's not in the right place it could be that the subject moved significantly and that can't be helped. Just have to try again. The other reason that it may have been in the wrong place is when shooting at a distance and the camera moves only slightly when pressing the shutter, the focus point will not be exactly where it was placed originally. When hand holding it's not always possible to know that the camera moved if that movenment is slight. That doesn't actually make a difference if the focus point is still on the bird.

I've never "got" the suggestion that some VR types can make the focus point jump. It's something I've never experienced. My eyes have never seen a jump.

It's possible to get a jump from a recoil action when pressing the shutter. When I had the Nikkor 200-500mm I got this all the time and I could visibly see the movement in the view finder. Never had it on any other lens. I always had to pull that lens back unreasonably hard against my forehead which was possible but far from desirable because you're taking extra time to get the shot off. Obviously when everything jumps the focus point will jump also but in these circumstances it's nothing to do with VR.

I also use AF-C with single point AF and spot metering. Never change any of those. If the bird is truly perched I would normally be at 1/500. It's enough if the bird is still and it provides flexibility when using other settings such as ISO being able to be kept lower. Nine times out of ten I find it copes with minor twitches but extra insurance is using burst mode so that in a series of shots. The bird is very unlikely to be twitching in all of them.

 

[Rassie]

Some folks say that single-point AF is biased to the closest subject under the focus point. I found that when a perched bird is small in the frame and the focus square is large enough to overlap the bird, then it's easy for the AF to lock onto foliage that is closer than the bird itself and is also partially covered by the focus point. In those cases I had some success with switching to 9-point dynamic AF. Maybe give that a try.

 

[Ralph]

Single point AF gives the most control over where the focus point is placed. If it's not in the right place it could be that the subject moved significantly and that can't be helped. Just have to try again. The other reason that it may have been in the wrong place is when shooting at a distance and the camera moves only slightly when pressing the shutter, the focus point will not be exactly where it was placed originally. When hand holding it's not always possible to know that the camera moved if that movenment is slight. That doesn't actually make a difference if the focus point is still on the bird.

I've never "got" the suggestion that some VR types can make the focus point jump. It's something I've never experienced. My eyes have never seen a jump.

It's possible to get a jump from a recoil action when pressing the shutter. When I had the Nikkor 200-500mm I got this all the time and I could visibly see the movement in the view finder. Never had it on any other lens. I always had to pull that lens back unreasonably hard against my forehead which was possible but far from desirable because you're taking extra time to get the shot off. Obviously when everything jumps the focus point will jump also but in these circumstances it's nothing to do with VR.

I also use AF-C with single point AF and spot metering. Never change any of those. If the bird is truly perched I would normally be at 1/500. It's enough if the bird is still and it provides flexibility when using other settings such as ISO being able to be kept lower. Nine times out of ten I find it copes with minor twitches but extra insurance is using burst mode so that in a series of shots. The bird is very unlikely to be twitching in all of them.

The VR setting most definetry jumps at times with the normal settings. At first I thought it was me but I did several test shots and found that it was the focus point that moved on its own. It doesn’t happen often but it does happen.. Not sure if it’s the shutter speed used but it wasn‘t user error. It has never happened with VR sport so far.

 

[gbodave]

The VR setting most definetry jumps at times with the normal settings. At first I thought it was me but I did several test shots and found that it was the focus point that moved on its own. It doesn’t happen often but it does happen.. Not sure if it’s the shutter speed used but it wasn‘t user error. It has never happened with VR sport so far.

How can you be sure that it wasn't the camera that moved. It would only need the slightest movement to throw the focus point off. When hand holding even the strongest person could allow a very slight movement. Were your tests done whilst hand holding or with the camera on a tripod. Even if on a tripod the camera can still move hence the need sometimes to use a remote or a delayed timer or mirror lock up.

 

[gbodave]

Some folks say that single-point AF is biased to the closest subject under the focus point. I found that when a perched bird is small in the frame and the focus square is large enough to overlap the bird, then it's easy for the AF to lock onto foliage that is closer than the bird itself and is also partially covered by the focus point. In those cases I had some success with switching to 9-point dynamic AF. Maybe give that a try.

I can agree with the comment about some foliage may get in the way but don't you agree that 9 point (or even Group 4 point) runs a greater risk of one of the points falling on the wrong place just because 9 points cover a larger area so there's more stuff likely to catch the camera's attention.

 

[Steve]

The VR system does cause the AF point to "jump".

The reason is that as the VR group "floats" the image circle to compensate for movement. When you press the shutter release, the VR group re-centers. If the VR group position is significantly different between the time you were looking at the image in the viewfinder before release and after, the AF point seems to "jump" - although what's really happening is the AF point was in the same spot, the image jumped. Sport VR minimize this and in fact, that's the main purpose behind it.

 

[Steve]

To the OP - birds on the ground invite heat distortion / refraction since it's often a place of temperature differential. As the ground warms, it warms the air above it and that mixes in with cooler air. Cool and warm air have different densities and this causes reaction - and can make sharp focus amazingly difficult. I'm not saying for that that's what's happening, but I wouldn't bet against it either

If you could post a pic, we could narrow down even more.

 

[Ralph]

How can you be sure that it wasn't the camera that moved. It would only need the slightest movement to throw the focus point off. When hand holding even the strongest person could allow a very slight movement. Were your tests done whilst hand holding or with the camera on a tripod. Even if on a tripod the camera can still move hence the need sometimes to use a remote or a delayed timer or mirror lock up.

I did it with firm support (against a tree or on the door of my car) and when reviewing had it show actual position of focus point after the shot. The camera was rock steady during shutter release and jumped to a significantly different position which was represented by the imagine review. There was Absolutely no movement of the camera during the shot and I am very sure about that..

 

[Rassie]

I can agree with the comment about some foliage may get in the way but don't you agree that 9 point (or even Group 4 point) runs a greater risk of one of the points falling on the wrong place just because 9 points cover a larger area so there's more stuff likely to catch the camera's attention.

This is open to a debate by folks more clever than me. One explanation I read somewhere was that the surrounding focus points in Dynamic-9 are "helpers". They only assist the camera to grab focus if the center focus point has nothing to focus on. So the default is that in the case of dynamic 9-point AF the focus is biased to the center point and not on the nearest subject. I think there are cases where that focus mode may help, while in other cases perhaps not. A lot depends on the individual scene. Ultimately we try different things until we find what works best. My Z6 has larger focus squares in the viewfinder than both the Z7 and D7500. Its center focus point therefore easily overlaps a small bird, and I had many focus failures using the center focus point only on little birds in the foliage. Any branch, twig or leaf that is closer to the camera and touches the focus point makes the camera focus on that closer subject. The first thing I noticed, and other folks have also mentioned this, is that with the Z6ii the camera seems to be less susceptible to focusing on the wrong things in cases like these.

 

[Steve]

This is open to a debate by folks more clever than me. One explanation I read somewhere was that the surrounding focus points in Dynamic-9 are "helpers". They only assist the camera to grab focus if the center focus point has nothing to focus on. So the default is that in the case of dynamic 9-point AF the focus is biased to the center point and not on the nearest subject. I think there are cases where that focus mode may help, while in other cases perhaps not. A lot depends on the individual scene. Ultimately we try different things until we find what works best. My Z6 has larger focus squares in the viewfinder than both the Z7 and D7500. Its center focus point therefore easily overlaps a small bird, and I had many focus failures using the center focus point only on little birds in the foliage. Any branch, twig or leaf that is closer to the camera and touches the focus point makes the camera focus on that closer subject. The first thing I noticed, and other folks have also mentioned this, is that with the Z6ii the camera seems to be less susceptible to focusing on the wrong things in cases like these.

This is correct. Nikon's Dynamic modes always try to focus and use the primary AF point first. If that point is unable to get a lock, the surrounding points step in, usually going for the best contrast. So, you can generally use a Dynamic mode to lock onto the eye of a subject even if some of the AF area is on the foreground. Still, the safer bet is usually to use single point if the subject isn't moving too much just in case the primary AF point decides for whatever reason it can't lock on.

On the other hand, something like Group will grab the first thing it sees most of the time. Same for the Wide areas in the Z cameras.

 

[Neil H.]

Why not try setting shutter to 1/3,200, aperture wide open and float the ISO. If the sharpness problem goes away you'll have your answer.