Nikon Z 800mm - member results when adding a Z 1.4 TC and use cases

[PhilG]

I purchased a Nikon Z 800mm a little over a month ago and have been using it without a TC. I wanted to get used to it and see what I should expect from an image quality perspective without one. There have been a few situations where more reach would be nice, in particular photographing eagles at Rocky Mountain Arsenal Mational Wildlife Refuge, where most of the really interesting action is farther away than is desirable with just the Z 800mm. I can still get images without the TC, but in some cases the eagles look quite small. I realize atmosphere could play a role, but heat isn't an issue for me right now.

I've read some people indicating they had good success with a TC when it was needed. I would be interested in people's opinions about the TC and to see some forum members best photos when using it.

I'm enclosing two photos that are about the same distance away (I estimate 700 - 800 feet from looking at my position on a map and where I judge the eagles were). I can live with these even though they are cropped to 6000 x 4000. The third photo is what I'm talking about, and I'm not sure a TC is going to help much because the subjects are so far away.


Nikon Z8, Nikon Z 800mm, f6.3, 1/3200, ISO 2000

The photo that follows was cropped to 3829 x 2154. I'm guessing the eagles were between 1,200 and 1,400 feet away.

 

[ricardo00]

I have used the 1.4 and even the 2.0 TC with the 800mm PF lens. If the atmospherics are okay, one can get useable photos with each. An example with the 1.4TC

https://flic.kr/p/2pUi33n

https://flic.kr/p/2q5PeAq

:

 

[PhilG]

I have used the 1.4 and even the 2.0 TC with the 800mm PF lens. If the atmospherics are okay, one can get useable photos with each. An example with the 1.4TC

Thanks for sharing. "Useable" implies (to me) average, is that what you meant? I'm not expecting miracles, but was hoping for good, not great (assuming proper technique and conditions).

 

[Lance B]

I have used the 1.4x TC on my 800 PF when I needed to crop more than I want with the lens bare. In the photo below, I was unable to get closer to the Rainbow Bee-eater as there was a no-trespassing sign and had to shoot from a fair distance from over a fence.

Uncropped.

Z9 + Z 800 f6.3 PF + 1.4x TC, 1/500s f/9.0 at 1120.0mm iso720

Cropped to how I wanted it.

 

[ricardo00]

Thanks for sharing. "Useable" implies (to me) average, is that what you meant? I'm not expecting miracles, but was hoping for good, not great (assuming proper technique and conditions).

I think if you can fill the frame with just the 800mm lens, it is of course the best. Getting birds in flight with a TC makes it harder (and cuts the amount of light). So the 800mm lens with the 2.0TC on a tripod for a stationary subject can good or even better. I usually handhold a lens for BIF so that makes the images often only "good". I do wonder many times if cropping would be as good if not better. For both of the subjects above it is impossible to get closer. And since I wanted them flying I was handholding.

 

[PhilG]

I have used the 1.4x TC on my 800 PF when I needed to crop more than I want with the lens bare. In the photo below, I was unable to get closer to the Rainbow Bee-eater as there was a no-trespassing sign and had to shoot from a fair distance from over a fence.

Uncropped.

Z9 + Z 800 f6.3 PF + 1.4x TC, 1/500s f/9.0 at 1120.0mm iso720

Cropped to how I wanted it.

Thanks Lance. What dimensions apply to the cropped image, which looks great by the way, and did you have to use Topaz or some other product to sharpen it? And if you have any other examples, I would love to see them, I greatly admire your images.

In one of the places I photograph the most, you are limited to the areas you can physically locate yourself. Getting closer is therefore not possible, like in your example. Not helped in the specific example I gave is that the eagles fly over a lake, and the typical course when they are in the closest trees typically take them farther away. I posted the picture below in another forum when the eagle actually flew toward me and turned, of course it had turned overcast and my photo (not cropped) was at an ISO of 7200, which wasn't ideal.

 

[PhilG]

I think if you can fill the frame with just the 800mm lens, it is of course the best. Getting birds in flight with a TC makes it harder (and cuts the amount of light). So the 800mm lens with the 2.0TC on a tripod for a stationary subject can good or even better. I usually handhold a lens for BIF so that makes the images often only "good". I do wonder many times if cropping would be as good if not better. For both of the subjects above it is impossible to get closer. And since I wanted them flying I was handholding.

To be honest, I'm not wild about the use of a TC, although I had good luck with the 1.4 on the 500mm PF I sold. I would prefer to limit its use to something stationary but think I could use it when the objects aren't large for BIF. Getting opinions is the main reason I posted - if everyone thinks using a 1.4 TC on a 800mm PF for BIF is crazy, then it's probably not a good idea. NOTE: I would only be looking at a 1.4 TC which would put me at f9. I wouldn't even consider a 2.0 TC.

 

[fcotterill]

[edited] No surprise that the ZTC2 shows reduces sharpness compared to the ZTC14. However, Optical sharpness is not the limiting variable using the respective combinations of ZTC with the 800 f6.3S PF. Although obviously light can become limiting with a TC.

Over the few months when I exhaustively compared both Nikkor 800's, I soon realized the frustrations with confounding variables....

....because Vibration, Subject Distance, and above all adverse Atmospherics too often overrule image quality with the 800mm and longer telephoto rigs. It's also Best to be conservative cropping images taken with a teleconverter. All said, in favourable situations, the TC pairings deliver impressive quality.

Comparisons: 800mm f5.6E FL and 800mm f6.3S PF Nikkors

Here follow a selection of images taken over the past several months with both lenses, with/without their respective teleconverters. I have built up a sizeable database since mid 2022, when time and conditions permitted. I took all these primarily with the aim of trying to define the...

bcgforums.com

 

[Lance B]

Thanks Lance. What dimensions apply to the cropped image, which looks great by the way, and did you have to use Topaz or some other product to sharpen it? And if you have any other examples, I would love to see them, I greatly admire your images.

In one of the places I photograph the most, you are limited to the areas you can physically locate yourself. Getting closer is therefore not possible, like in your example. Not helped in the specific example I gave is that the eagles fly over a lake, and the typical course when they are in the closest trees typically take them farther away. I posted the picture below in another forum when the eagle actually flew toward me and turned, of course it had turned overcast and my photo (not cropped) was at an ISO of 7200, which wasn't ideal.

Thank you very much for your kind comments, Phil. Much appreciated!

The crop ended up being about 4425 x 2950 pixels from the original 8256 x 5504. I probably used Topaz Denoise and slight sharpen, I don't remember. Whatever the case, I used very little sharpening. Unfortunately, I haven't any other examples and I really don't know why I never used the TC more often as the results ended up being great, IMO. Unfortunately, I have sold the Z 800 PF in order to help fund my Z 600 TC.

I saw and commented on your lovely eagle shot above in another thread you posted.

 

[PhilG]

Thank you very much for your kind comments, Phil. Much appreciated!

The crop ended up being about 4425 x 2950 pixels from the original 8256 x 5504. I probably used Topaz Denoise and slight sharpen, I don't remember. Whatever the case, I used very little sharpening. Unfortunately, I haven't any other examples and I really don't know why I never used the TC more often as the results ended up being great, IMO. Unfortunately, I have sold the Z 800 PF in order to help fund my Z 600 TC.

I saw and commented on your lovely eagle shot above in another thread you posted.

Thanks for responding. I knew you sold your Z 800 PF for the Z 600 TC. If I had the funds I probably would do the same, although it wouldn't solve the problem I'm complaining about in my original post. I've seen a number of your Z 800 PF photos on this and another forum, too bad no other images with the TC.

Lance, if this isn't too personal a question, do you sell your photos or do you print your favorites for your own use in your home? I saw you did a calendar in another post.

 

[Lance B]

Thanks for responding. I knew you sold your Z 800 PF for the Z 600 TC. If I had the funds I probably would do the same, although it wouldn't solve the problem I'm complaining about in my original post. I've seen a number of your Z 800 PF photos on this and another forum, too bad no other images with the TC.

Lance, if this isn't too personal a question, do you sell your photos or do you print your favorites for your own use in your home? I saw you did a calendar in another post.

I do not actively try to sell my photos, but I would if someone thought they were worthy of purchase. I have printed a book of 100 Australian Bird Photos that I have given to family members who want them and to a couple of my business customers. The book is hard cover and the photos are about 350mm x 235mm in size and costs me about AU$150 to print. The normal price is about AU$300 but I always wait until Snapfish has their regular sales before I purchase a book which are normally about 50% off. These are the photos:

Australian Bird Book by Lance B

pbase.com

 

[fcotterill]

Good practice in handling technique is undoubtedly essential, although we have the Z System Synchro VR. It's impressive in how well it dampens vibrations. This difference with the 800 PF becomes very obvious when compared to the 800 f5.6E with and without a F-mount Teleconverter (including its bespoke TC125).

Distance is often reduced by adverse atmospherics, although it usually works well with the TC14 over a shorter distance to tighten the frame around a stationary subject, often a small bird where distances are < 20m. Using a TC on more distant subjects is not always successful; and often one doesn't achieve such good quality as those shared above of the raptors.

The frustrations of bad atmospherics are described vividly in the linked PL article that reviewed the 800E in detail (and also how apparatus stability bedeviled bench testing). It's a decade since those MTF results were measured with a special flash method to avoid micro vibrations. The fully electronic shutter of Z Mirrorless are a significant advantage today to cut out a primary vibration source of a DSLRs paired with fickle super telephoto lenses.

Heat haze is the main adversary, but other kinds of atmospherics are quite subtle, eg moisture over wetlands, temperature inversions or dust. So these challenges come up not only photographing across hot bare substrates; where I've found calcretes, bare rock, and basalt soils create very challenging situations, especially in the tropics.

Nikon 800mm f/5.6E FL ED VR Review - Page 2 of 7

photographylife.com

 

[DougC]

My TC14EII was on my 500 AF-S f4D and several DSLR’s almost constantly and produced excellent results. The same is true for my 500PF with the same TC and my Z8. That said, I spent my first day in the field with my 800PF and the TC1.4 with very good to excellent performance. I shoot mostly from my car on a sandbag or from a tripod. You need to be rock steady with an 1120mm lens.

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[Garfield]

Just echoing other commenters....I routinely used the 1.4TC on the 800pf when I had it and found the results more than acceptable IF atmospheric conditions allowed; the optics were never a limitation. The 2xTC was a completely different experience of course, but I still used it for close-up high magnification work.

 

[PhilG]

My TC14EII was on my 500 AF-S f4D and several DSLR’s almost constantly and produced excellent results. The same is true for my 500PF with the same TC and my Z8. That said, I spent my first day in the field with my 800PF and the TC1.4 with very good to excellent performance. I shoot mostly from my car on a sandbag or from a tripod. You need to be rock steady with an 1120mm lens.View attachment 104323

Thanks for sharing. In some locations I visit you are forced to shoot from your vehicle. I always shut the car off and have the end of the lens outside the vehicle. I just purchased a bag to support the 800mn in the event I get a 1.4 TC. Any other suggestions from a technique perspective?

 

[xxx]

Thanks for sharing. In some locations I visit you are forced to shoot from your vehicle. I always shut the car off and have the end of the lens outside the vehicle. I just purchased a bag to support the 800mn in the event I get a 1.4 TC. Any other suggestions from a technique perspective?

There is a deer that lives in the trees down at Bass Pro. Must be a refugee from the arsenal?

 

[ajrmd]

My experience has largely mirrored what has been reported. One cannot underemphasize the effects of the atmosphere as well as atmospherics. Taking photos of small objects far away and slapping a TC on hoping that they will be magically better will only result in frustration. I've been less than 100 yards away from a GBH rookery, where under "clear" conditions the atmospherics are so bad that even with a $12k f/4 prime, one could easily convince themselves that the TC was a coke bottle. Where I've found TC's really useful are when I am relatively close to the subject and need the optical assist to fill the frame. So, if you're already several hundred yards away from the subject and it is small in the frame, it is very unlikely that you'll achieve the results you're hoping for.

 

[kanonka]

800PF + 1.4TC can produce great images, but only with tripod or at least monopod, unless you live in a gym 24/7. All my personal attempts to handhold this combo and get sharp image failed. But as soon as it goes onto a tripod - no problem.

 

[DougC]

Thanks for sharing. In some locations I visit you are forced to shoot from your vehicle. I always shut the car off and have the end of the lens outside the vehicle. I just purchased a bag to support the 800mn in the event I get a 1.4 TC. Any other suggestions from a technique perspective?

I will repeat once again the sage advice our favorite moderator Dave Ryan once told me…… a TC should not be used to bring something far away closer, it should be used to bring something close even closer.
Another technique I can offer is using a monopod with a Wimberley MH-100 inside the car. I put it between the seat and the door and lean against it to keep it steady. For me, it’s the next best thing to tripod.

 

[Megaera]

I have used the 1.4x TC on my 800 PF when I needed to crop more than I want with the lens bare. In the photo below, I was unable to get closer to the Rainbow Bee-eater as there was a no-trespassing sign and had to shoot from a fair distance from over a fence.

Uncropped.

Z9 + Z 800 f6.3 PF + 1.4x TC, 1/500s f/9.0 at 1120.0mm iso720

Cropped to how I wanted it.

I really like that shot…wonderful!

 

[Lance B]

I really like that shot…wonderful!

Thank you very much, Megaera. Much appreciated!

 

[PhilG]

There is a deer that lives in the trees down at Bass Pro. Must be a refugee from the arsenal?

It’s possible.

 

[JDG Photo]

Recommend that you check the auto focus fine tune. I have had to make small adjustments on a couple of my lens after adding the teleconverters.

 

[Mark_Laidlaw]

I can still get images without the TC, but in some cases the eagles look quite small. I realize atmosphere could play a role, but heat isn't an issue for me right now.

In my mind, and as someone who owns an 800mm, if you need a 1.4 at that kind of FL, unless it's a tiny songbird, your subject is probably too far away to get a great shot, anyway. You'll get a shot, but either the atmosphere is going to destroy clarity, or the TC will rob you of acuity, or the background will be too busy. Or all 3. With the 1.4 on the 800, you really need to be at f/11 to get good sharpness back.

Every time I switch my camera to DX mode when using the 800, I'm always like "wish I could have just gotten closer because the background's kinda awful."

 

[PhilG]

In my mind, and as someone who owns an 800mm, if you need a 1.4 at that kind of FL, unless it's a tiny songbird, your subject is probably too far away to get a great shot, anyway. You'll get a shot, but either the atmosphere is going to destroy clarity, or the TC will rob you of acuity, or the background will be too busy. Or all 3. With the 1.4 on the 800, you really need to be at f/11 to get good sharpness back.

Every time I switch my camera to DX mode when using the 800, I'm always like "wish I could have just gotten closer because the background's kinda awful."

Your comment about just being closer to distant objects was made by someone else and unfortunately, it’s most likely the case. I think the 1.4 TC could still help me in a number of cases besides the one I pointed out. I would hate to have to use that lens at f11. I’m going to get the TC and try it out and see what happens. I wanted to get some feedback to set my expectations.