PC computers in a state of flux

[Calson]

At this time the PC makers are in transition from 13th to 14th generation Intel CPUs and from 1GB Ethernet to 2.5GB and 10GB Ethernet and from USB 3.x to USB 4.0 and Thunderbolt. Most desktop PCs can only accommodate a PCIe card that is less than 5 inches in height so one cannot install a Nvidia RTX card and can only use a Quadro or similar card that provides less than half the performance at triple the cost. The USB 4.0 Thunderbolt cards require special connections to the Intel Z90 type motherboards or one is left with the USB 3.x that have a quarter the data throughput.

For these reasons I will be waiting until late in 2024 to buy a new graphics workstation. Anything I buy now will have shortcomings and I will not be able to upgrade them without buying a new computer or at the very least a new motherboard and various adapters.

For me Apple is not a viable alternative in terms of price and performance for video editing. Spending $8,000 for a computer that is lower in performance for Photoshop or Resolve than a Windows computer does not work for me.

This is meant not to create controversy but to alert others to issues with the current state of computer hardware.

 

[PhilcTx]

Seems like that pretty much is always the case - hardware/software systems needs/requirements are never static for any real length of time.

I was faced with similar decision prior to my current PC build last year. I just drove a stake in the ground at that point in time and chose what I felt I needed at that point in time and executed on that.

No regrets or hindsight wishing I'd waited for newer, faster, cheaper, more capacity, etc.

 

[John Navitsky]

At this time the PC makers are in transition from 13th to 14th generation Intel CPUs

i'd probably go AMD anyways

and from 1GB Ethernet to 2.5GB and 10GB Ethernet

need for 10Gb ethernet is really going to depend on need. the newer high end motherboards like the threadripper pro boards tend to have 10Gb ethernet built in, but you can always buy a card if you actually have a use case

and from USB 3.x to USB 4.0 and Thunderbolt.

yah, this is a thing. TB wasn't well supported, and USB 3 is useful, but not fast. the newer high end motherboards are starting to come out with USB4 and that's something i'd be willing to shop around for

Most desktop PCs can only accommodate a PCIe card that is less than 5 inches in height so one cannot install a Nvidia RTX card and can only use a Quadro or similar card that provides less than half the performance at triple the cost.

this is not really a problem. if you're DIYing, you can get whatever case you want. and if you're shopping systems that won't accommodate the cards you want, you're shopping the wrong market segment (you probably want workstations, not desktops), and that segment will NEVER meet your needs because what you want is a higher end component than that that segment supports

The USB 4.0 Thunderbolt cards require special connections to the Intel Z90 type motherboards or one is left with the USB 3.x that have a quarter the data throughput.

yah, basically don't count on adding TB/USB4 to a system. it's one of those things you want the motherboard to support up front

For these reasons I will be waiting until late in 2024 to buy a new graphics workstation. Anything I buy now will have shortcomings and I will not be able to upgrade them without buying a new computer or at the very least a new motherboard and various adapters.

the issue here isn't really availability, it's simply if you're willing/able to pay the cost for what you want. what you want is readily available, just expensive. that said, the macs are expensive too

 

[Calson]

I cannot justify spending $9,000 on a computer for what is now basically a hobby. I have been directly involved in computer design and engineering since 1978 and there have always been integration issues to overcome. That is why I much prefer to buy an off the shelf computer where the manufacturer has already done the heavy lifting. But it is different now where the manufacturers have divided users into gamers or business users and business users are treated as either people doing email or spreadsheet analysis or limited CAD type applications. This is where "content creators" slip through the cracks in the product marketing schemes. Apple does much the same with its available "desktop" computers and their pricing.

I want the fastest possible I/O between my primary workstation and a NAS box. At this time I use a 10GB connection from end to end and with a 10GB switch in the middle. My card reader's performance with uploading CFexpress cards with my Z9 raw files is something I would like to improve but that means having a USB 4.0 card reader which Prograde is selling AND a USB 4.0 port on the computer. That is where I need to buy a new computer and find one that has available PCIe slots for adding this card as well as a 10GB Ethernet card and the dual NVME M.2 16x card I am using for an internal RAID1 array.

When I buy a computer I want to get at least 3 years of use and hopefully 5 years of use. At this point in time the motherboards and case designs are very much in a state of flux and I know that over time it will be sorted out. I prefer to wait for this to happen instead of spending thousands of dollars on an obsolete computer. I got bitten by Apple when they release a new operating system that would not work with my Mac Pro workstation and that was needed to use the latest drivers for the new generation of graphics cards. That is when I switched back to a Wintel computer despite its much less efficient operating system.

 

[John Navitsky]

But it is different now where the manufacturers have divided users into gamers or business users and business users are treated as either people doing email or spreadsheet analysis or limited CAD type applications. This is where "content creators" slip through the cracks in the product marketing schemes. Apple does much the same with its available "desktop" computers and their pricing.

i think they're trying to "upsell" us

 

[John Navitsky]

My card reader's performance with uploading CFexpress cards with my Z9 raw files is something I would like to improve but that means having a USB 4.0 card reader which Prograde is selling AND a USB 4.0 port on the computer.

in general, this is probably the least impactful of your desires and the hardest to get

1) the amount of time you spend copying your files from the CFE-b card to the computer isn't that huge if you're using a 10Gb vs 40Gb connection and you're still going to max out on how fast the card is. for example, you pretty much max out at about 1000MB/s on 10Gb USB, but the Delkin Black (as an example) can only do 1400MB/s no matter how you connect it (that measurement was directly connected via PCI)

2) adding USB4 or TB is problematic after the fact via a PCI adapter since you need more than just a PCI slot (although why this is eludes me)

 

[Anjin San]

For me Apple is not a viable alternative in terms of price and performance for video editing. Spending $8,000 for a computer that is lower in performance for Photoshop or Resolve than a Windows computer does not work for me.

This is meant not to create controversy but to alert others to issues with the current state of computer hardware.

I don’t intend to get into a platform debate…and you’re entitled to believe that Apple hardware has lower performance than equivalently priced Windows gear. However…there are vast numbers of people that disagree with that premise and happily do both photo and video work on MacBook Airs. Sure…you can spend 9K on a high end Mac Pro…but nobody outside of commercial movie producers needs to have hardware like that and the equivalent Windows hardware is going to be in the same range.

For the vast, vast majority of photo processing or video editing people….the choice of Windows vs macOS is a matter of what they want to use and not a matter of this one has more performance. I will happily recommend Windows hardware for people who prefer that OS and are familiar with it just as I would recommend macOS for people that prefer it. Neither of those has anything to do with one being better or worse.

 

[wotan1]

I was in a similar dilemma with PC and I switched to MAC.

You don't have to spend 9k to get a decent mac setup. I bought an entry level Studio M2 and paid under 2K for the computer. It is shockingly fast working Lightroom. I spent 1400 for their 5k studio monitor and another 1k for a super fast enterprise level SSD drive.

I now am operating with a 5k monitor for editing the image with my 4k monitor housing the thumbnails. Everything is lightning fast with almost no latency. I am a very happy camper.