Rumoured AF updates to Nikon Z6 ii and Z7 ii

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Kjellis

Kjellis

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Woke up to this posted on facebook today:
nikonrumors.com

Nikon Z6II and Z7II firmware updates with new real-time tracking rumored to be released in September - Nikon Rumors

A while back I mentioned in a blog post about new upcoming Nikon Z6II and Z7II firmware updates. The rumored updates are expected to be out in September and will introduce new real-time tracking – this will be a simpler version of the real-time tracking system that will be implemented in the...
nikonrumors.com nikonrumors.com

Any AF update is most welcome and I’m really looking forward to seeing what this update brings!
 
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I saw that earlier, that would be interesting indeed. The more interesting elements though are the speculations in the comments. I like the idea that Nikon released a z7ii with superior hardware capabilities that are completely unexploited because of software limitations, and that this new release will suddenly unleash a hidden potential matching the Sony A9mk2... I hope they are right but I won't hold my breath just yet. But I certainly hope this will rebuild confidence that Nikon is on the path to figuring out real time tracking with subject identification - at this stage, a visible and credible first step would be a big deal, even if they keep the real goodies for the Z9.
 
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Well said FB101. I am on the fence, leaning toward getting the SONY A1. If this firmware gets Nikon into a competitive posture versus Canon and SONY with regard to mirrorless AF tracking, then perhaps it is worth hanging on to see what the Z9 does., or maybe even get one of the current ZII cameras assuming the FTZ performance also improves.
 
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FB101 said:
I saw that earlier, that would be interesting indeed. The more interesting elements though are the speculations in the comments. I like the idea that Nikon released a z7ii with superior hardware capabilities that are completely unexploited because of software limitations, and that this new release will suddenly unleash a hidden potential matching the Sony A9mk2... I hope they are right but I won't hold my breath just yet. But I certainly hope this will rebuild confidence that Nikon is on the path to figuring out real time tracking with subject identification - at this stage, a visible and credible first step would be a big deal, even if they keep the real goodies for the Z9.
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I wouldn’t expect it to be able to match the A9mk2 in speed. There are a few things that we know will be hardware limited in the Zii cameras. I think we can safely hope for significant improvements to AF tracking and the interface used for AF tracking. Hopefully better subject recognition and tracking too.
 
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Probably to add to this, while I said I'd get one if they pull off vastly improved AF, one of the biggest things is they'll have a mid range body to pair the upcoming 200-600 Z lens with... and that's what I'm mostly thinking about, not having to get the Z9 to pair with that lens.
 
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Yeah, very curious over this also.
I always had the idea that when Nikon added that second processor in the Z6 ii and Z7ii, and comparing the tracking performance with the first Z6/Z7 version, something was missing in there. The performance was not that noticeable.

a) Nikon developers suck big time and cannot develop an algo capable of tracking and do subject recognition similar to what Cannon and Sony have, so no matter how many processors you put in the camera, that thing will never work as it is suppose too.
b) Nikon developers are still developing the system, and that 2nd processor will do the work for the new tracking/recognition system... when they figure it out.

For a) the solution would be easy, Nikon just have to "still" the head of software development of Cannon or Sony to help them out.
For b) is a question of waiting until they figured it out.

I believe that Nikon hardware, namely the Zs second versions are on par with Cannon and Sony. Is the software part of the thing that is lagging behind.
Nikon Z lenses are amazing, the cameras are amazing, awesome sensors, awesome colors, awesome ergonomics...
They just need to figure out the tracking and subject recognition algo.

I wonder if there's a shortage of developers also like there is in the chip market.
I read somewhere that in Europe, for the next 5 years, companies will need to hire 1 million developers and that will generate huge problems because there's not enough developers available.

India cannot produce enough developers to feed the entire world ;).
 
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Nando said:
I believe that Nikon hardware, namely the Zs second versions are on par with Cannon and Sony. Is the software part of the thing that is lagging behind.
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I'd say the processing hardware is on par, but what Nikon is currently missing is a stacked high read rate sensor that the high end Sony and Canon MILCs have. That's a big deal when it comes to EVF and AF performance as well as rolling shutter impacts. The Nikon Z9 is slated to have a fast readout rate stacked sensor but none of the existing Nikon Z cameras have this hardware installed and it's one thing you can't completely compensate for in software.
 
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DRwyoming said:
I'd say the processing hardware is on par, but what Nikon is currently missing is a stacked high read rate sensor that the high end Sony and Canon MILCs have. That's a big deal when it comes to EVF and AF performance as well as rolling shutter impacts. The Nikon Z9 is slated to have a fast readout rate stacked sensor but none of the existing Nikon Z cameras have this hardware installed and it's one thing you can't completely compensate for in software.
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Until Canon officially releases the R3, they don't have a stacked sensor either.
 
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For sure. The stacked sensor will resolve some issues, but then again, the current tracking and subject recognition system that the Zs have will continue to miss when compared with Canon and Sony no matter what sensor you put in the camera.

Software and hardware need to go hand in hand. That is where I fill Nikon has been failing. On the hardware side development has been good, but on the software side, they have not been able to keep up.

Are they developing such ground breaking new system which explains this apparent lagging between development departments?



DRwyoming said:
I'd say the processing hardware is on par, but what Nikon is currently missing is a stacked high read rate sensor that the high end Sony and Canon MILCs have. That's a big deal when it comes to EVF and AF performance as well as rolling shutter impacts. The Nikon Z9 is slated to have a fast readout rate stacked sensor but none of the existing Nikon Z cameras have this hardware installed and it's one thing you can't completely compensate for in software.
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Nando said:
For sure. The stacked sensor will resolve some issues, but then again, the current tracking and subject recognition system that the Zs have will continue to miss when compared with Cannon and Sony no matter what sensor you put in the camera.

Software and hardware need to go hand in hand. That is where I fill Nikon has been failing. On the hardware side development has been good, but on the software side, they have not been able to keep up.
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Agreed, software and hardware design and performance go hand in hand. But that's why I'm not expecting a software only upgrade to deliver A1 or R3 level performance out of the current Nikon Z cameras, you need both parts of the puzzle.
 
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DRwyoming said:
I'd say the processing hardware is on par, but what Nikon is currently missing is a stacked high read rate sensor that the high end Sony and Canon MILCs have. That's a big deal when it comes to EVF and AF performance as well as rolling shutter impacts. The Nikon Z9 is slated to have a fast readout rate stacked sensor but none of the existing Nikon Z cameras have this hardware installed and it's one thing you can't completely compensate for in software.
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You beat me to it. Any improvement the Z bodies get in af performance is great but until Nikon has a stacked sensor I won't bother investing in any Z bodies or glass. Having the a1 and seeing the real benefits of the stacked sensor make anything less in mirrorless a deal breaker for me.
 
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We had two major firmware updates from Nikon on the Z6/7. So far we have only had point releases on the Z 6II and Z 7II. I am sure we will have at least one major firmware for the Z 6II and Z 7II but I have no idea what features the major release will bring. I hope for animal eye detect beyond cats and dogs.
 
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For sure, I'm not expecting the Z6ii and Z7ii to show a performance similar to the A1 with a simple software update, they are worlds apart. That will come with the Z9, Z8... and whatever number they come with next.

But that does not mean that tracking and subject recognition cannot be severely improved. One would expect it when they added that second processor. Why they added it?
Hard to believe the Zii improvements compared with the first Zs, is in fact being done by that second processor. Is that second processor only capable of doing that?
Hard to believe that Nikon is not able to make the Zii to track and recognize subjects like Canon does on the R5.
The hardware is there (believing that that second processor is capable to process the necessary data), is just the software that is missing.


DRwyoming said:
Agreed, software and hardware design and performance go hand in hand. But that's why I'm not expecting a software only upgrade to deliver A1 or R3 level performance out of the current Nikon Z cameras, you need both parts of the puzzle.
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Nando said:
But that does not mean that tracking and subject recognition cannot be severely improved.
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Agreed, I am very hopeful that my Z6 II's performance will improve substantially with a firmware upgrade. But I don't necessarily think Nikon's engineers are struggling in the algorithm department as much as they hobbled themselves with the initial Z6/Z7 hardware choices and then made improvements to the processing with the II versions. But I am hopeful that the September release will take full advantage of the dual processors and the camera's AF and hopefully EVF performance will improve accordingly.
 
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DRwyoming said:
Agreed, software and hardware design and performance go hand in hand. But that's why I'm not expecting a software only upgrade to deliver A1 or R3 level performance out of the current Nikon Z cameras, you need both parts of the puzzle.
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I don't know much about the A1 or R3, but are we really comparing apples to apples when we compare a Z6II or Z7II to those competitors, even if the new firmware update significantly improves tracking? I'm not sure the Z6/Z7 series were ever intended to compete with those cameras?
 
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Rassie said:
I don't know much about the A1 or R3, but are we really comparing apples to apples when we compare a Z6II or Z7II to those competitors, even if the new firmware update significantly improves tracking? I'm not sure the Z6/Z7 series were ever intended to compete with those cameras?
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I don't think they will or realistically should compete with those cameras but reading things on various Internet forums it seems some folks expect that kind of performance jump from a software only upgrade which I think is unrealistic as there are some hardware dependencies, particularly in the sensor design, that limits how much can be done in firmware.

But count me in the camp that really likes my Z6 II and am hopeful that it will get even better with upcoming firmware updates. But I neither demand nor expect that they'll compete head to head with top of the line cameras from the other big players that cost twice the price, that's what the Z9 is supposed to do.
 
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I am just looking for it to get close to the A9ii. That would be great. Of course, the FTZ has to be improved for the 500pf or it is back to thinking about getting an R5 or waiting for the Z9. It is more cost effective paying $7000 for a Z9 (that plays nice with the FTZ) than switching to the Canon or Sony system.
 
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I hope this results in a big improvement for the ZII cameras. It does give me some hope that Nikon will correct their cameras. However I am not buying any Nikon gear until the Z9 is out and tests show that the Z9 with the existing FTZ (or hopefully a new model that works better) my existing lenses work at close to their maximum performance level. My friends with Canon gear indicate their older lenses do not appear to suffer AF performance degradation with their new Canon mirrorless cameras. Perhaps there is some degradation but they cannot notice it. In the case of current Z cameras and the FTZ this degradation is noticeable. If there is a performance degradation with the Z9 and my lenses, including my 500 f4 G lens, then it is time for me to switch away from Nikon. Waiting for Nikon reminds me of that old camp song
 
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