Shuttershock with Nikon 300mm f4D AF-S and TC14II on Nikon D500

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

S

StefanSC

Well-known member
Member's gallery
Hello all,

Perhaps someone from the forum still has the 300mm f4D AF-S and the Nikon D500 and could help me figure this out.

So, the scenario:

I was testing the Nikon 200-500mm f5.6 against the Nikon 300mm f4D AF-S with Nikon TC14II on the Nikon D500.
SharpshotS.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.


And I found out that the difference was much greater than I remembered (I had tried out the 200-500mm f5.6 back when it came out on the D810 and they were closer).

So I checked the 300mm f4 a bit more and it seems that if shooting in burst, most of the shots show shutter shock even at 1/1000s:

shuttershockS.jpg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.


So, out of 10 shots in a burst, 7 look like the one on the right. I need to bring the SS up to 1/2000s or faster in order to get continous sharp images.

Has anybody encounter such a behaviour?

Note: I don't think it's a general camera issue, as I was doing the same thing with the 200-500mm f5.6 and I got 9/10 shots sharp. Also, if using the 300mm with TC on the D810, I get about 8/10 frames sharp.
 
Member's gallery
StefanSC said:
Note: I don't think it's a general camera issue, as I was doing the same thing with the 200-500mm f5.6 and I got 9/10 shots sharp. Also, if using the 300mm with TC on the D810, I get about 8/10 frames sharp.
Click to expand...
Well the 200-500mm has VR that the 300mm f/4 D does not so that's one factor. In terms of comparing behavior on the D500 to the D810, remember the pixel density and how camera motion issues will show up is quite different between those two cameras, or viewed another way you're comparing a cropped sensor camera to a full frame camera and the cropped sensor and its implicit 1.5x crop factor will make any motion issues much more noticeable for the same focal length lens.

The other big difference that jumps out between a a D810 and D500 is camera mass which plays a role in reducing motion blur on the shooting end. IOW, the D500 weighs a lot less and may be more susceptible to shutter slap vibration issues compared to the D810.

But the big question is how were you doing this testing? Were these shots handheld or tripod mounted and if you were using a tripod were you using good long lens technique with your left hand applying gentle down pressure on the lens and face up against the back of the camera to reduce vibrations?

I sold my 300mm f/4 D lens a while back but used it quite a bit with my D500 and had great results with or without a TC attached and often shot at shutter speeds less than 1/2000" but it's really hard to say much more than that as everyone is different in terms of what they can handhold and even when using a tripod or monopod there's variation in how folks apply long lens technique to minimize vibration issues.
 
Member's gallery
The 200-500mm is probably just a little sharper than the 300mm + TC, or maybe you need a little AF Fine Tuning on the 300mm. I don't think shutter shock at 1/1000th would be an issue. The AF on the 300mm my be a little less consistent than some of the newer lenses, too.
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
I had a similar issue with the 300mm AF-S when mounted on a D500. I was never happy with that lens and no amount of AF tuning fixed the issue. At close distance it wasn't bad but no where near the rave reviews it was getting. In the end I gave up and moved the lens on, bought the 300mm PF and never looked back.
 
Member's gallery
The AF-S 300mm F4D IF-ED really started to show some weakness on the bodies with more than 12MP. I suspect it is mostly due to focus shift when the lens is stopped down. Sharpness wise the center shows better sharpness than the current model in every test I've seen, so its not that. It was weak off center though.
 
Member's gallery
It does look a bit like shutter shock to me, but you should verify. Try it in Live View and electronic shutter and see if that fixes it. If it still looks the same, then at least you know it's not shutter shock.

As Dave says, I'd also think about the overall mass of the system - sometimes it really does make a difference.
 
Member's gallery
I have this lens (just got it a few days ago) and use it with a D7500 + TC14e. Obviously the D7500 is a bit lighter/smaller than the D500, but it shares the same sensor. I shot a Robin at a pretty considerable distance yesterday at 1/500. Some of them weren't sharp, but I attributed to the fact I was hand holding an effective 630mm at 1/500. I didn't notice any shutter shock per se. I also took a few bursts today around 1/1000 and didn't notice any shutter shock as well. I would think shutter shock is more of an issue at slower shutter speeds? I'm no expert, but maybe it needs a little AF fine tune? I had to dial mine to +8 with the TC because it was front focusing slightly.
 
Member's gallery
Is the problem at 10 frames per second or at any frame rate? I used my 300 f4D from 2007-2015 on D80, D90, and D7000. I got tack sharp images all the time. None of these cameras has a high frame rate. I was just wondering if the high frame rate was the problem. As a side note, my new Z6 II is very quiet in mechanical shutter mode. Giving up the mirror was great for my wildlife photography.
 
Member's gallery
Thank you all for the great input. It gave me a few Homer Simpson-like "D'Oh" moments as I realized a few mistakes that I was making.

First off, I did my original test using both lenses hand-held. That introduced two issues that I didn't think about in my initial post:
1) My hand holding ability.
2) The impact of VR on keeping the focus point on target.

So, when I got a bit of free time last evening, I set up a Spyder Lenscal target, locked down the 300mm f4D AF-S with TC and D500 on a solid tripod and played a bit with them.

I did need a slight adjustment of the AF (from 0 I had 2 years ago to a +2) and then took a sharp EFCS LV shot as reference.
Following that reference, I took a number of 10fps bursts using the 10-pin remote at f5.6 and 1/1000s and 1/800s

The shots taken on the tripod with the remote where consistent with the reference shot and clearly lacking any shutter shock. Hmm...

I took the camera off the tripod and did the same tests in handhelds and there I started to see differences in sharpness between shots. Also, I could see that I have some drift of the subject in the viewfinder, enough to move AF points off of it.

To wrap things up:
1) I need to step up my hand-holding skill. As until recently I was using a Sigma 150-600mm C for these kind of shots, the OIS masked my sloppy hand holding.
2) I need to study a bit more on the AF nuances in order to avoid easily losing focus due to subject drift in the viewfinder.
3) I need to start saving up for a telephoto prime with VR :).

Again, thank you all for your feedback.
 
Member's gallery
Good that you gave thought it thought and took a methodical approach to determine the facts. My first thoughts had been around whether you were hand holding or not. Congrats for putting your hand up and acknowledging that. As for technique, you need to find what works for you and practice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top