TC challenges

[Steve Matadobra]

Evening

I recently upgraded from a D7100 (DX) to D850 (FX). With my 7100, I used it with my Nikon 200-500 (5.6) for bird photography (especially because of the extra reach). Now with my d850, I will lose that extra reach so im considering a TC (1.4). How much loss of stops will I have with the D850 - Nikon 200-500 (5.6) and the 1.4 TC?

Steve

 

[Ralph]

You lose 1 stop with the 1.4 tc

 

[DRwyoming]

Evening

I recently upgraded from a D7100 (DX) to D850 (FX). With my 7100, I used it with my Nikon 200-500 (5.6) for bird photography (especially because of the extra reach). Now with my d850, I will lose that extra reach so im considering a TC (1.4). How much loss of stops will I have with the D850 - Nikon 200-500 (5.6) and the 1.4 TC?

Steve

You'll lose one stop which isn't a big deal from a light gathering standpoint but the AF performance on your D850 will suffer with that lens and TC combo. Basically once you get to a lens with a wide open aperture of f/8 which is what you get with a f/5.6 lens and 1.4x TC the AF will really struggle. Only the center most AF points will still work and only the center most point will retain it's full cross sensor performance. If you'll manually focus the lens the image quality is very good with the matching Nikon TC-14 iii but AF performance will struggle.

I've tried both the 200-500mm f/5.6 and 500mm PF f/5.6 lenses with the TC-14 iii with the D5, D500 and D850 and the AF really struggles even on static subjects unless the light is very good and the subject has a lot of contrast. I wouldn't try this combo with fast moving subjects.

 

[JAS]

There is another way to look at this too. If you shoot the D850 in DX crop mode you get 19.4MP off that great sensor with a field of view like that of the D7100. So, you are getting a high quality crop shot from your D850 with the benefits of that body and that processing. You can look at this approach and just not use the teleconverter. Or, you can just shoot in full frame mode and crop tighter.

I sometimes shoot my Z6 in crop mode when the 10mp output will be good enough for the intended use.

 

[Steve Matadobra]

There is anotehr way to look at this too. If you shoot the D850 in DX crop mode you get 19.4MP off that great senso with a field of view like that of the D7100. So, you are getting a high quality crop shot from your D850 with the benefits of that body and that processing. You can look at this approach and just not use the teleconverter. Or, you can just shoot in full frame mode and crop tighter.

I sometimes shoot my Z6 in crop mode when the 10mp output will be good enough for the intended use.

Thats a great point - Im doing some bird photography today and give the 850 in crop mode a try. Most of my bird photography is for website/educational purposes so the increased MP is not necessarily needed....what i need is to get closer and some noise reduction. Again, thanks!!

 

[JAS]

Thats a great point - Im doing some bird photography today and give the 850 in crop mode a try. Most of my bird photography is for website/educational purposes so the increased MP is not necessarily needed....what i need is to get closer and some noise reduction. Again, thanks!!

It will also give you smaller files sizes instead of all those high MP D850 files.

 

[Woodpecker]

Evening

I recently upgraded from a D7100 (DX) to D850 (FX). With my 7100, I used it with my Nikon 200-500 (5.6) for bird photography (especially because of the extra reach). Now with my d850, I will lose that extra reach so im considering a TC (1.4). How much loss of stops will I have with the D850 - Nikon 200-500 (5.6) and the 1.4 TC?

Steve

You lose 1 stop with the 1.4 tc

You are not only loosing one stop, you are also loosing most of your AF sensors as the TC brings your 200-500 f5.6 down to f8 and f5.6 is still the slowest lens where Nikon DSLR bodies keep all AF sensors working. If you do BIF you might loose quite a bit of keeper rate when using a TC on a 200-500. I have the same issue with my 500PF.

If I know I have good light, need the reach and have to be very mobile I prefer a DX body with a relatively short lens (e.g. 500PF with D7200 --> 750mm f5.6) against the heavy stuff (D750 or D4S + TC14 + 500f4 G --> 700mm f 5.6).

Whenever light is critical I try to avoid the DX body and accept to carry the FX body with the bigger lens, because DX sensors are more prone to noise. The smaller the pixel size gets the worse the SNR. Of course there are some differences due to variations in the in-camera software of the diferent models, but in the end it comes down to the fact that "you can tweak data with software, but you can't cheat physics with it".

I think for many purposes the D850 is an absolute dream camera and if I had it I would most likely keep it, but from what I read about your preferences I think you'd be better off with a DX body. I bouhgt my D7200 some time ago for exactly this reason. It was almost new after lying aroung in the shelf of somebody for 90% of the time and I got it with less than 4.000 Clicks for the same amount that I would have paid for a new TC-14E III and a D500 was way too expensive at that point.

 

[Steve]

There is anotehr way to look at this too. If you shoot the D850 in DX crop mode you get 19.4MP off that great senso with a field of view like that of the D7100. So, you are getting a high quality crop shot from your D850 with the benefits of that body and that processing. You can look at this approach and just not use the teleconverter. Or, you can just shoot in full frame mode and crop tighter.

I sometimes shoot my Z6 in crop mode when the 10mp output will be good enough for the intended use.

That's what I would do instead of a TC with an F/5.6 lens

 

[Woodpecker]

That's what I would do instead of a TC with an F/5.6 lens

@Steve, did you by any chance come across a comparison of the viewfinder AF sensor coverage of a D7200 and the D850 in DX mode ???
For several reasons I think of swapping my D750 + D7200 against a D850.
I am happily shooting my D4S as lowlight cruncher, so having 19,4 MPixels in DX mode with the D850 combined with its AF system would be good enough for me, especially when getting it with 9fps or even more (?) if using a grip and having the huge buffer and being able to have f5.6 lenses like the 500PF or the 500 f4G plus TC with 50% more reach.
Going for the D850 would also help because I am not only looking for getting one body replacing two, but also for a replacement body with round eyepiece so that I can make proper use of the diopter correction that works perfect on my D4S (IMO there is no proper solution for rectangular eyepieces)

 

[Steve]

@Steve, did you by any chance come across a comparison of the viewfinder AF sensor coverage of a D7200 and the D850 in DX mode ???
For several reasons I think of swapping my D750 + D7200 against a D850.
I am happily shooting my D4S as lowlight cruncher, so having 19,4 MPixels in DX mode with the D850 combined with its AF system would be good enough for me, especially when getting it with 9fps or even more (?) if using a grip and having the huge buffer and being able to have f5.6 lenses like the 500PF or the 500 f4G plus TC with 50% more reach.
Going for the D850 would also help because I am not only looking for getting one body replacing two, but also for a replacement body with round eyepiece so that I can make proper use of the diopter correction that works perfect on my D4S (IMO there is no proper solution for rectangular eyepieces)

The D850's DX area AF spread is a bit wider than the D7200. Better edge-to- edge coverage.

What you're thinking of doing is essentially what I'v been doing with my D850 since I got it. (Note that it's 9FPS even in DX).

Although I don't always put it into crop mode, when I'm in the field I know that if I'm cropping to about the DX area I'm getting D500-like results. However, I can also crop anywhere between DX and FX and get more pixels on my ducks. So, it's like having the best of both worlds in a single camera.

 

[Woodpecker]

The D850's DX area AF spread is a bit wider than the D7200. Better edge-to- edge coverage.

What you're thinking of doing is essentially what I'v been doing with my D850 since I got it. (Note that it's 9FPS even in DX).

Although I don't always put it into crop mode, when I'm in the field I know that if I'm cropping to about the DX area I'm getting D500-like results. However, I can also crop anywhere between DX and FX and get more pixels on my ducks. So, it's like having the best of both worlds in a single camera.

Great, thanks ! So I have to find an excuse again for spending x k€ for a body before having the money back for the other two . But all in all it makes a couple of things easier:

• Two instead of three bodies without loosing flexibility, but gaining some.
• Being able to work with
  • just one type of memory card (getting rid of all the SD cards) and
  • just one type of batteries (ideally using EN-EL18 only)
• Having the chance to get into focus shift shooting.

After you are travelling regularly, how do you deal with charging the EN-EL18. Do you carry the Nikon charger did you find an alternative, may be even USB-powered ?

 

[Steve]

Great, thanks ! So I have to find an excuse again for spending x k€ for a body before having the money back for the other two . But all in all it makes a couple of things easier:

• Two instead of three bodies without loosing flexibility, but gaining some.
• Being able to work with
  • just one type of memory card (getting rid of all the SD cards) and
  • just one type of batteries (ideally using EN-EL18 only)
• Having the chance to get into focus shift shooting.

After you are travelling regularly, how do you deal with charging the EN-EL18. Do you carry the Nikon charger did you find an alternative, may be even USB-powered ?

We just carry a charger. If we're travelog by air, it goes into the checked baggage. However, it's not the worse idea to have batteries charged and with (I think you have to anyway) you just in case something happens to the bags

 

[EricBowles]

If you have a Z camera, the answer is different. The Z6/7 etc. focus pretty well with the 200-500 and TC14E III teleconverter. You still have the loss of light, so you are shooting at f/8-f/11, but you can use any AF point and AF is remarkably accurate. I still only use that combination in good light, but it is usable. Focus speed is better with the 500 PF and teleconverter. I've photographed birds in flight with the Z6, 200-500, and TC14E III.

The Z cameras require contrast for good focus. If you have good light and contrast, you can try combinations like the same lens with a 2.0 TC - an effective f/11 wide open - but then performance will suffer a bit more.