Thinking of redoing my Mac setup... what software to choose?

[VinnyH]

I've been an Adobe guy for 35+ years but am wondering about setting up my new Mac Mini M4 Pro with either DaVinci Resolve 19 or Final Cut pro (basically the same price). I kind of want to learn from the beginning with one of these. I've used Adobe Premiere Rush and iMovie but want to have more editing options. Nothing will be for money, just videos of birds, maybe some guitarplaying and some family compilations.
Any opinions on ease of learning will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Vinny

 

[TomRC]

Even though people will tell you it is, once you get the basics of Davinci down it really isn't that complicated and it is sooooooooooo much better than Final Cut Pro IMO. It is actually extremely simple once you grasp the basics. The Davinci Speed Editor is really nice and it comes with a full version of the Studio Software which makes it a great deal. Again, Davinci seems complicated but it really isn't. Give yourself 30 days of watching YouTube Videos and you will be well on your way. From time to time I'll mess around in Final Cut and it just seems like such a step backwards. Yes Final Cut has a simple interface and gets the job done but even some simple things like moving around a timeline are so much more thought out in Davinci. I run Davinci on a M1 Macbook Pro and a M2 Mac Mini Pro with only 16GB or ram and Davinci runs smoothy on both computers.

The most confusing thing initially in Davinci IMO is how to manage color. I mention this because I think it is a "stumper" for Davinci newbies. Basically you have to convert the color space of Your camera to the Davinci Color Space where you do your color grading and then after color grading you convert from the Davinci Color Space out to Rec 709 color space prior to exporting at the end of your edit. You can do this either in the main Davinci Preferences when you first create a project or you can do this by creating CST's (color space transforms) as nodes on the color page as a part of your node tree. I would recommend creating the color space transform as nodes on the color page. Sound really complicated I know but it really isn't. From some of the YouTube channels mentioned below learn a basic node tree to create on the color page tab where you will be color grading your footage. Within this node tree you will have one color space transform node at the beginning of the node tree and another color space transform node at the end of your node tree to accomplish what I haphazardly tried to describe above. Sorry for rambling on about this Color Space Transform stuff but I think it needs to be at the top of any Davinci newbies to do list of things to learn.

In terms of working in Davinci you basically just import your footage, make cuts, basic audio tweeks and add transitions on either the cut or edit tabs and then move over to the color tab to do your color grading and then export. Not complcated. Davinci also has an a Fusion and Fairlight tabs which are more advanced that you don't have to use but offer very advanced compositing and audio editing tools as your skills advance. Davinci is just a great program and the great thing is you can create a real simple workflow or you can go really advanced down the road if you so choose Just dive in head first, lean the basics and in no time you will have it down pat. Davinici is a steal for the power the program offers and they could EASILY charge twice what they do for it. You are definitely getting your $$$'s worth.

Darren Mostyn, Waqas Qazi, Cullen Kelly, Jason Yadlovski, Casey Faris, Joris Hermans and Danny Gan have great YouTube channels to learn Davinci basics. Again sorry to ramble on but I hear over and over about how Davinci is complicated which is simply not the case and is no harder to learn than learning the basics of Lightroom & Photoshop. It is without question the gold standard of video editing software. BUT if you end up choosing Final Cut.....thats fine too

 

[Alistair]

I've been an Adobe guy for 35+ years but am wondering about setting up my new Mac Mini M4 Pro with either DaVinci Resolve 19 or Final Cut pro (basically the same price). I kind of want to learn from the beginning with one of these. I've used Adobe Premiere Rush and iMovie but want to have more editing options. Nothing will be for money, just videos of birds, maybe some guitarplaying and some family compilations.
Any opinions on ease of learning will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Vinny

Do you shoot Nikon Nraw?

 

[VinnyH]

Do you shoot Nikon Nraw?

I plan on shooting nRaw with my Z8 mainly.
Thanks TomRC for your explanation of Davinci. I have been leaning that way but it helps a lot to get those thoughts.
Best to All,
Vinny

 

[Nimi]

I've been an Adobe guy for 35+ years but am wondering about setting up my new Mac Mini M4 Pro with either DaVinci Resolve 19 or Final Cut pro (basically the same price). I kind of want to learn from the beginning with one of these. I've used Adobe Premiere Rush and iMovie but want to have more editing options. Nothing will be for money, just videos of birds, maybe some guitarplaying and some family compilations.
Any opinions on ease of learning will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Vinny

"Expert level" on DVR and Premiere Pro and I use both.

If I were confined to learning one, it would be Premiere Pro. The footage will come out the same, it's just a different interface.

The main difference for me is the integration with Audition, After Effects and Photoshop, which I use to add graphics and sound. Those modules are weak on DVR, and while you can add Au and AE and PS to footage edited on DVR, it's a clumsy process.

For basic stuff they are the same. Also consider learning After Effects. For short videos, say 3 min or less, you can actually do it all there.

Both are great choices. Good luck!

 

[Nimi]

I plan on shooting nRaw with my Z8 mainly.
Thanks TomRC for your explanation of Davinci. I have been leaning that way but it helps a lot to get those thoughts.
Best to All,
Vinny

There is very little, if any benefit at this time shooting NRaw. Thats why Adobe isn't supporting it. Giant files will make for a frustrating editing experience on most machines. You get pretty much the same final results with log. I also dont know about the Z8 overheating situation with these files.

At some point Nikon will introduce Red RAW, which is a great profile to work with and should open up dynamic range available from these sensors.

 

[Alistair]

I plan on shooting nRaw with my Z8 mainly.
Thanks TomRC for your explanation of Davinci. I have been leaning that way but it helps a lot to get those thoughts.
Best to All,
Vinny

At this time DVR is the only one of your two options to support Nraw. As @Nimi says Nraw is easy to avoid, the main reason to not avoid it being some codecs such as 8.3k/60 are unique to Nraw.

 

[VinnyH]

There is very little, if any benefit at this time shooting NRaw. Thats why Adobe isn't supporting it. Giant files will make for a frustrating editing experience on most machines. You get pretty much the same final results with log. I also dont know about the Z8 overheating situation with these files.

At some point Nikon will introduce Red RAW, which is a great profile to work with and should open up dynamic range available from these sensors.

I still need to learn more about the raw options. Is one better to say, open up shadows, besides color adjustments?
Vinny

 

[Nimi]

I still need to learn more about the raw options. Is one better to say, open up shadows, besides color adjustments?

Not in my experience on this sensor. Log = RAW for now. As @Alistair mentioned, you get a full sensor readout, but that's only important if you try to extract vertical from landscape orientation or you shoot anamorphic lenses. Otherwise the 8k is more than plenty for cropping.

There is a wedding photographer/colorist on YT who goes on and on about RAW and DVR. In my opinion he is just plain wrong, and I say that by judging his edits which are awful.

But frankly, and don't take this the wrong way, as you come up to speed on video, which is completely different from stills, editing RAW is an overkill that will frustrate you. Working with flat profile like RAW or log takes some learning. I'd actually suggest considering a standard profile ahead of either, than once you're comfortable with exposing and basic post work, move on to the more complex ones.

 

[VinnyH]

I understand and probably should start with a good basic format. I’ll have to check but what Z8 8K/60 version would anyone consider decent to start with?
Vinny
PS: I appreciate all thoughts and will digest everything. My M4 Pro Mini is on order until the end of Dec. then I will slowly dive in.

 

[Nimi]

I understand and probably should start with a good basic format. I’ll have to check but what Z8 8K/60 version would anyone consider decent to start with?
Vinny
PS: I appreciate all thoughts and will digest everything. My M4 Pro Mini is on order until the end of Dec. then I will slowly dive in.

Why do you want to shoot 60fps? Not a good rate unless you're planning to slow it down for slow motion. And then might as well shoot 4k/120.

I don't use Z8 but I think they have the same capabilities. On Z9, for normal speed i shoot H. 265 10-bit N-Log 8k24p. If it's going for YouTube, 30fps. For slow motion I shoot same format, 4k120p.

Depending on the length of your takes, keep in mind that the Z8 will overheat at some point, some formats worse than others. There is a lot of info out there on what cards are best to minimize that.

I edit on a MBP M3 Max 128GB. No issues. If I shoot ProRes RAW I utilize proxies to speed up editing.

 

[VinnyH]

I like the option for slow motion. I think I should admit, I like too many things and that leads to my confusion.

I like to absorb all info and take it from there. I wish I had a little OCD.

 

[Nimi]

I like the option for slow motion. I think I should admit, I like too many things and that leads to my confusion.

I like to absorb all info and take it from there. I wish I had a little OCD.

To repeat myself, I'd stick to basics for the first year until you get comfortable with capturing and editing footage.

The issue with shooting 60p is that it goes with 1/120 shutter speed, which doesn't give you the necessary intra-frame blur to impart motion. It doesn't matter for slow motion because the eye doesn't perceive it as realistic anyway. Decide how you're going to view it, pick appropriate fps. The only flexibility I build into my shoots is for panning and zooming in post, hence the 8k.

 

[Alistair]

I understand and probably should start with a good basic format. I’ll have to check but what Z8 8K/60 version would anyone consider decent to start with?
Vinny
PS: I appreciate all thoughts and will digest everything. My M4 Pro Mini is on order until the end of Dec. then I will slowly dive in.

There is only one 8k/60 and that is Nraw. (it is actually 8.3k but anything from 7.680k to 8.3k is considered "8k" in this context. As @Nimi points out, the files are huge and you only want to use this codec if you really need 60fps and 8k.
Why might you need 60fps? Mostly to slow down to 30fps for slow motion. Why might you need 8k? Mostly to crop, zoom and stabilise in post. Or maybe you have an 8k monitor or want to upload to YT for folk who have 8k monitors. Mostly though it is to crop, zoom and stabilise in post and then deliver in 4k or lower.
Certainly slow motion is very useful for wildlife. The two codecs I consider most useful are 4k/60 and 4k/120 (both 10 bit). 4k/60 is an oversampled codec so it gives you similar quality to 8k when both are played at 4k. 4k/120 is sub-sampled so is not quite as good quality but is still very nice. 4k/60 can be slowed to half speed and 4k/120 to quarter speed (assuming playback at 30fps).
If you shoot in SDR, then the in-camera profile applies the "grading" but of course you can tweak a little in post. You can also tweak the in-camera profile to your liking. If shooting Nlog the footage needs to fully graded in post, more akin to shooting raw. One big advantage when shooting SDR, is that you are more likely to be able to avoid the use of ND filters.
This is an aspirational example (not mine unfortunately!) of the use of 8k/60 Nraw, make sure to set the quality to highest!:

 

[VinnyH]

I like hearing about 4K at 60. I’ll probably try a few things with birds in the early Spring.
Thanks again to all,
Vinny

 

[m-dB]

Nimi, Your posts are incredibly helpful to this video beginner.

Thank you
M

 

[VinnyH]

Just checked and Premeire Pro is $225 annual subscription so, not for me as a hobbyist. I think it's down to Davinci 19 or Final Cut Pro (one time price) on my Mac Mini M4 Pro right now.
Vinny

 

[Nimi]

Just checked and Premeire Pro is $225 annual subscription so, not for me as a hobbyist. I think it's down to Davinci 19 or Final Cut Pro (one time price) on my Mac Mini M4 Pro right now.
Vinny

The free version has limitations (eg 8k, RAW, etc) so check the list to see if it precludes you from doing what you want to do.

 

[VinnyH]

The free version has limitations (eg 8k, RAW, etc) so check the list to see if it precludes you from doing what you want to do.

I think a one time $300 purchase is in my budget so I'd get the full FCP or Davinci software. The only subscription I have is the Adobe PhotoShop/Lightroom photographer education priced deal for about $150 a year.

 

[Bobcape]

I just recently upgraded from the free version of DVR to Studio. I was fortunate to take advantage of the B&H sale and got it for $236. Watch for it going on sale. I didn't have much experience with other video editing software and started with DVR about 4 years ago. The Studio version brings a few nice additions. It's an easy platform to learn and thee are a ton of tutorials available on YouTube. Enjoy!

Bob

PS - I recently upgraded my Mac as well. I went with the new Mac Mini M4 Pro - 48GB, 1TB and Studio monitor. It's a super fast machine and very stable as you can imagine.

 

[N67]

premier pro is too expensive. but i used it years ago when i owned it. FCP interface is terrible and non non non intuitive. really bad. hard to learn, impossible to remember. but alas, $50/month for premier pro is too much to stomach.

 

[VinnyH]

premier pro is too expensive. but i used it years ago when i owned it. FCP interface is terrible and non non non intuitive. really bad. hard to learn, impossible to remember. but alas, $50/month for premier pro is too much to stomach.

I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos about FCP. Maybe since I'm a longtime Apple/Mac guy FCP looks pretty inviting to me. I will be on the low end of video production as a hobbyist so it might fit for me.
Thanks again for all the thoughts,
Vinny

 

[N67]

I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos about FCP. Maybe since I'm a longtime Apple/Mac guy FCP looks pretty inviting to me. I will be on the low end of video production as a hobbyist so it might fit for me.
Thanks again for all the thoughts,
Vinny

For the price, give it a try. been an apple guy for 20 years, been in IT for 42 years. used to design user interfaces. for me, this one is not good. for me. i can pick up premier pro and away i go after not using it for 15 years….

 

[Nimi]

premier pro is too expensive. but i used it years ago when i owned it. FCP interface is terrible and non non non intuitive. really bad. hard to learn, impossible to remember. but alas, $50/month for premier pro is too much to stomach.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.