Thinking Zf vs Z8 for backup cam....

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ssheipel

ssheipel

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I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body). Further, enter my upcoming trip to Baffin Island in the early spring where I really don't want to be without a backup camera (e.g. be there and fate delivers a failure of the Z9 -- afterall it'll be over a week of very cold temps without respite for the gear, or me, from the cold). So the thought of spending several thousand dollars for ANY backup camera for just 10 days (and any future such trips, of course) hurts. Option is to risk it -- one camera body -- but that's really not a rational option, especially given my luck :) Option 2 is to take the D6 as backup AND take up a backup lens (say the 500 pf with tc or even the other behmoth lens 180-400)) but that's really pushing already strained gear packing space.

Option 3 is to choose the Zf for the backup camera. Bonus here is I suspect I'd likely wind up using that camera quite a bit for street and walk about photography; even portrait work I do (despite my preference for 'big' cameras in hand). So that would give it greater use than 'emergency' use only and take the sting out of the (already less $ than the Z8) price tag. And it's got all the AF power of the 8 and 9 so would be a great option for wildlife if it comes to that (eg Z9 crash).

Anyway, thought I'd use this forum to put my thinking down on the 'page' as I move to a decision. And with this crowd I suspect there will be a few thoughts and opinions :)

Also, on another matter re the trip north. I've decided for a Zoom option (along with the 600 prime) I'm going to take the z 70-200 and a tc, likely the 2x)
 
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Hey Steven!… Locked on the horns of a dilemma…. Have you considered “renting” a second body? Many retailers can do this for you. I have both the Zf&8. I like both very much. My Z9 has also failed and needed to be returned for a motherboard replacement and defective on/off shutter switch…. Go figure …$6K camera failure. The Zf is 24mp so keep that in mind.
 
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I'd consider renting a second Z9 if you don't have another Z body that appeals to you as a purchase now. I certainly agree that you want a backup body and perhaps at times a second body in action.

I can see the attractiveness of the Zf. Two things would hold me back. It does not seem to have many customizable buttons, a feature I use a lot on my Z9 and Z8. And the Zf's viewfinder still sounds like it still has some slide-show issues at the highest frame rates, although it has apparently improved over the Z7II/Z6II viewfinders. But that might matter more for birds than polar bears and arctic foxes.

I used my Z9 and Z7II at Seal River on Hudson Bay in November, 2022. Had both set up and in hand with a 500 mm PF on one body (sometimes with the 1.4x TCIII on it) and the Z 100-400 on the other. We had temps down to -15F and windchills to -35F. Both Z bodies worked very well, with no issues. I did replace the battery on the Z7II most days between morning and afternoon shoots. It wasn't empty, but you get less battery life in very cold temps. The Z9's EN EL 18d got me through most days without replacing it.
 
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ssheipel said:
I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body). Further, enter my upcoming trip to Baffin Island in the early spring where I really don't want to be without a backup camera (e.g. be there and fate delivers a failure of the Z9 -- afterall it'll be over a week of very cold temps without respite for the gear, or me, from the cold). So the thought of spending several thousand dollars for ANY backup camera for just 10 days (and any future such trips, of course) hurts. Option is to risk it -- one camera body -- but that's really not a rational option, especially given my luck :) Option 2 is to take the D6 as backup AND take up a backup lens (say the 500 pf with tc or even the other behmoth lens 180-400)) but that's really pushing already strained gear packing space.

Option 3 is to choose the Zf for the backup camera. Bonus here is I suspect I'd likely wind up using that camera quite a bit for street and walk about photography; even portrait work I do (despite my preference for 'big' cameras in hand). So that would give it greater use than 'emergency' use only and take the sting out of the (already less $ than the Z8) price tag. And it's got all the AF power of the 8 and 9 so would be a great option for wildlife if it comes to that (eg Z9 crash).

Anyway, thought I'd use this forum to put my thinking down on the 'page' as I move to a decision. And with this crowd I suspect there will be a few thoughts and opinions :)

Also, on another matter re the trip north. I've decided for a Zoom option (along with the 600 prime) I'm going to take the z 70-200 and a tc, likely the 2x)
Click to expand...
Steven, Nikon just announced a $500 savings on a Z8 today.
 
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Woodyg3 said:
Hmmm I'm seeing $200 off . Is it $500 off in Canada?
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I received an email that stated that the total including rebates would be $ 500. I honestly didn’t read it thoroughly . Let check my trash bin. Sorry, my mistake. You are correct Woody, the Z8 is only $200 off.
 
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ssheipel said:
I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body). Further, enter my upcoming trip to Baffin Island in the early spring where I really don't want to be without a backup camera (e.g. be there and fate delivers a failure of the Z9 -- afterall it'll be over a week of very cold temps without respite for the gear, or me, from the cold). So the thought of spending several thousand dollars for ANY backup camera for just 10 days (and any future such trips, of course) hurts. Option is to risk it -- one camera body -- but that's really not a rational option, especially given my luck :) Option 2 is to take the D6 as backup AND take up a backup lens (say the 500 pf with tc or even the other behmoth lens 180-400)) but that's really pushing already strained gear packing space.

Option 3 is to choose the Zf for the backup camera. Bonus here is I suspect I'd likely wind up using that camera quite a bit for street and walk about photography; even portrait work I do (despite my preference for 'big' cameras in hand). So that would give it greater use than 'emergency' use only and take the sting out of the (already less $ than the Z8) price tag. And it's got all the AF power of the 8 and 9 so would be a great option for wildlife if it comes to that (eg Z9 crash).

Anyway, thought I'd use this forum to put my thinking down on the 'page' as I move to a decision. And with this crowd I suspect there will be a few thoughts and opinions :)

Also, on another matter re the trip north. I've decided for a Zoom option (along with the 600 prime) I'm going to take the z 70-200 and a tc, likely the 2x)
Click to expand...
I would go with either the Zf or Z8. One is a bit cheaper (well, more than a bit I guess) and has pixel shift and 24MP. The other is more bucks, more FPS, and more MP…and outside of pixel shift I don’t know if it’s AF is the same as the Z8 or the next generation. And the Zi has more buttons to customize and operates more closely to your primary Z9. I don’t know if the 9.4 pounds and slightly bigger body make a difference for you for street shooting…but unless that’s your primary subject rather than wildlife I would think the FPS amd ‘works more like the primary is better for you. If on a wildlife outing you basically have one body/lens out and the backup in the backpack to be used if necessary instead of both being out with different lenses…then spending less and having the smaller body to schlep and also for street might be more attractive. And there’s budget too…the not such a little bit of price difference factors in there as well.

I would definitely get another Z body rather than the D6 and another big lens…since the Zs operate so much differently than even the best of the DSLRs and if you don’t use the D6 much anymore the muscle memory for it might be less remembered. I kept my Z7II for street…and considered the Zf to replace it…but the weight difference nd the ‘Z7II is still fine as long as FPS and fast AF isn’t as important for street’ made it a not yet answer for me.
 
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ssheipel said:
I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body). Further, enter my upcoming trip to Baffin Island in the early spring where I really don't want to be without a backup camera (e.g. be there and fate delivers a failure of the Z9 -- afterall it'll be over a week of very cold temps without respite for the gear, or me, from the cold). So the thought of spending several thousand dollars for ANY backup camera for just 10 days (and any future such trips, of course) hurts. Option is to risk it -- one camera body -- but that's really not a rational option, especially given my luck :) Option 2 is to take the D6 as backup AND take up a backup lens (say the 500 pf with tc or even the other behmoth lens 180-400)) but that's really pushing already strained gear packing space.

Option 3 is to choose the Zf for the backup camera. Bonus here is I suspect I'd likely wind up using that camera quite a bit for street and walk about photography; even portrait work I do (despite my preference for 'big' cameras in hand). So that would give it greater use than 'emergency' use only and take the sting out of the (already less $ than the Z8) price tag. And it's got all the AF power of the 8 and 9 so would be a great option for wildlife if it comes to that (eg Z9 crash).

Anyway, thought I'd use this forum to put my thinking down on the 'page' as I move to a decision. And with this crowd I suspect there will be a few thoughts and opinions :)

Also, on another matter re the trip north. I've decided for a Zoom option (along with the 600 prime) I'm going to take the z 70-200 and a tc, likely the 2x)
Click to expand...
I have wondered how well the mirrorless cameras will perform in the extreme cold. My initial response would be to take the D6 but since then you need a second heavy long lens (though the 500mm PF and TC wouldn't be that bad) not sure I would do that. Personally, I have done several trips since I got the Z9 and have bought and been using the Z8 as my backup. Like how similar they are and the lower weight of the Z8. Maybe the Z6 III will be out by the time you are ready to go? Can't speak to the Zf. Does the battery last longer in the Zf than the Z8? And the weatherproofing is similar? I would think the small difference in price (relative to the cost of your trip) shouldn't be the deciding factor? And having the extra megapixels for a distant subject would be another advantage for the Z8? Just some random thoughts.
 
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Go for the Zf, yiu know you want to! The “rational” mind says rent and use a Z9, saving yours for backup. With a z9, you can directly copy your settings…important if you’re very used to banks etc etc…unless you enjoy learning new systems.
 
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Funny, I just wrote up my experience with the Zf as a back-up body on the FM forum... I'm pasting a copy of my post here.
Before I paste the post, I want to offer a backstory. One month ago I was using a Z9/Z8/Z6II w/ 24-120, 180-600, 400 f4.5, 800PF. The opportunity to buy my dream lens... the Z 400mm f2.8S appeared, so I sold the Z8, 400 f4.5, and 800PF. I wish this equaled my lens, but I also through a fair amount of money into the deal. This left me with a Z9/Z6II combo platter and I was using the Z9 with the 400 f2.8S and Z6II with the 180-600. At Bosque del Apache, I became frustrated with the AF limitations on the Z6II... enter my decision to sell that and buy the Zf... FM... comments to follow:

I live in the world of the polar vortex and the sub-arctic air has settled on my home range. This morning it was -6 degF (-21C), and if you include the wind, it was a balmy -20 degF (-29 degC +/-). My wildlife subjects are cold just like their photographer. Finding wildlife is a challenge and sitting with them on an icy lake is equally difficult. In the end, I managed to make only two keepers (see below). The shots were taken with the Nikon Zf. In general, I plan to use the 180-600 with the Zf and my 400 f/2.8S with the Z9.

I've been adding my thoughts to the Zf discussion as well as one related to using a Zf w/ a 600PF. For those of you looking for a second body, I'd argue that this is your best option after the Z9/Z8. Please note, the Zf is not without its faults... in fact, I'd argue that ergonomically, it's not the better than the Z6/Z7 series, but the AF and viewfinder refresh rate is worth the ergonomic limitations. Of course, if you're a street photographer using manual focus lenses, the Zf is the right camera. For a nature shooter like me, I ignore the "old school" dials and programed the two comman dials to match my Z9. I've set the AEL button on the back to back-button focus, and programmed the one function button to change my AF patch to single point AF.

Finding the command dials with gloves is a little tricky, but this did not prevent me from controlling the camera as I intended. While I wish there was an additonal dedicated back-button focus button, I am making due. The real benefit of the Zf is the AF. The AF is responsive and behaves like my Z9. I shot for about an hour in the cold, and the battery held up just fine. I probably could get 4 hours out of a battery in that weather... I think that's better than what I could do with the Z6. Finally, in addition to the problems of shooting a white bird with a tiny black eye over water on a frigid morning, there was river mist. The AF behaved way better than expected...

Sample picks added.
bruce

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This is just my opinion but I’d go with the Zf. I want to get one but had to make a choice between it and some other stuff and don’t need yet another camera. If you are shooting two bodies interchangeably it is best to have identical or nearly identical bodies like Z9/Z8 but if you want a second body for emergency usage and to serve other purposes like a fun, lightweight travel camera, the Zf looks like a fantastic option. I know I will get a Zf eventually, maybe later this year.
 
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BLev65 said:
Finding wildlife is a challenge and sitting with them on an icy lake is equally difficult. In the end, I managed to make only two keepers (see below). The shots were taken with the Nikon Zf. In general, I plan to use the 180-600 with the Zf and my 400 f/2.8S with the Z9.


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Hi Bruce. Thanks for sharing those images. It reminds me of a few hours at Conowingo Dam recently: lots of very cold air, mist, and few keepers. 😢

Anyway, I’m posting here about the Zf /180-600 pairing. I’ve tried it for shooting BIF and it was tough to manage handheld. The lens isn’t balanced well with the small Zf body. I had better success with it on a monopod. The Zf autofocus is significantly better than the Z7 II and somewhat better than the Z8, although I expect the upcoming Z8 firmware update to solve that problem.
 
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JAJohnson said:
Hi Bruce. Thanks for sharing those images. It reminds me of a few hours at Conowingo Dam recently: lots of very cold air, mist, and few keepers. 😢

Anyway, I’m posting here about the Zf /180-600 pairing. I’ve tried it for shooting BIF and it was tough to manage handheld. The lens isn’t balanced well with the small Zf body. I had better success with it on a monopod. The Zf autofocus is significantly better than the Z7 II and somewhat better than the Z8, although I expect the upcoming Z8 firmware update to solve that problem.
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Thanks for the note... It is very difficult to shoot through river mist, especially on a cold day.
I agree that the Zf and 180-600 are not a balanced pair, however the Zf and Z6II feel similar in that regard. The Z8 and 180-600 play well together, I just don't want to spend that much money of a 2nd body... the Z9 is my primary camera and the addition of a Z8 at $4000 is a bitter pill for me at this moment.

cheers,
bruce
 
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I have two Z9 bodies and I went with a Z8 for a smaller body. I tried a Z7ii but just didn't like the different button layout and menus. It lacked a lot fo the features I use on the Z9.

The Z8 does the job. Very similar for all major functions, muscle memory doesn't need a reset and it is smaller than the Z9. I may end up selling one of the Z9's coming year.
So I would go for similar layout and functions and suggest the Z8 over the Zf.
 
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BLev65 said:
Funny, I just wrote up my experience with the Zf as a back-up body on the FM forum... I'm pasting a copy of my post here.
Before I paste the post, I want to offer a backstory. One month ago I was using a Z9/Z8/Z6II w/ 24-120, 180-600, 400 f4.5, 800PF. The opportunity to buy my dream lens... the Z 400mm f2.8S appeared, so I sold the Z8, 400 f4.5, and 800PF. I wish this equaled my lens, but I also through a fair amount of money into the deal. This left me with a Z9/Z6II combo platter and I was using the Z9 with the 400 f2.8S and Z6II with the 180-600. At Bosque del Apache, I became frustrated with the AF limitations on the Z6II... enter my decision to sell that and buy the Zf... FM... comments to follow:

I live in the world of the polar vortex and the sub-arctic air has settled on my home range. This morning it was -6 degF (-21C), and if you include the wind, it was a balmy -20 degF (-29 degC +/-). My wildlife subjects are cold just like their photographer. Finding wildlife is a challenge and sitting with them on an icy lake is equally difficult. In the end, I managed to make only two keepers (see below). The shots were taken with the Nikon Zf. In general, I plan to use the 180-600 with the Zf and my 400 f/2.8S with the Z9.

I've been adding my thoughts to the Zf discussion as well as one related to using a Zf w/ a 600PF. For those of you looking for a second body, I'd argue that this is your best option after the Z9/Z8. Please note, the Zf is not without its faults... in fact, I'd argue that ergonomically, it's not the better than the Z6/Z7 series, but the AF and viewfinder refresh rate is worth the ergonomic limitations. Of course, if you're a street photographer using manual focus lenses, the Zf is the right camera. For a nature shooter like me, I ignore the "old school" dials and programed the two comman dials to match my Z9. I've set the AEL button on the back to back-button focus, and programmed the one function button to change my AF patch to single point AF.

Finding the command dials with gloves is a little tricky, but this did not prevent me from controlling the camera as I intended. While I wish there was an additonal dedicated back-button focus button, I am making due. The real benefit of the Zf is the AF. The AF is responsive and behaves like my Z9. I shot for about an hour in the cold, and the battery held up just fine. I probably could get 4 hours out of a battery in that weather... I think that's better than what I could do with the Z6. Finally, in addition to the problems of shooting a white bird with a tiny black eye over water on a frigid morning, there was river mist. The AF behaved way better than expected...

Sample picks added.
bruce

View attachment 79221
View attachment 79222
Click to expand...
It just looks cold!
 
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My backups are my D6 and a second Z9 - thanks to major reductions in 2022 and last year, when the Z9 special was almost the same as a new Z8.
However I also suggest a Zf, for backup as well as your general ILC. As you say, a Zf will pair with Z Telephotos etc, and cost significantly less
 
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Larry S. said:
Hey Steven!… Locked on the horns of a dilemma…. Have you considered “renting” a second body? Many retailers can do this for you. I have both the Zf&8. I like both very much. My Z9 has also failed and needed to be returned for a motherboard replacement and defective on/off shutter switch…. Go figure …$6K camera failure. The Zf is 24mp so keep that in mind.
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Hi. Thanks. I should I included the fact that I've rejected the rental option as it would be over $1,500 (with travel time and time on the ice it would need to be a 12 or 13 day rental) and if all goes well I'd expect that to be money spent on gear that won't leave the bag; plus any 'next time' I need a backup (that's not the D6) I'll need to repeat that cost.
 
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BillW said:
I'd consider renting a second Z9 if you don't have another Z body that appeals to you as a purchase now. I certainly agree that you want a backup body and perhaps at times a second body in action.

I can see the attractiveness of the Zf. Two things would hold me back. It does not seem to have many customizable buttons, a feature I use a lot on my Z9 and Z8. And the Zf's viewfinder still sounds like it still has some slide-show issues at the highest frame rates, although it has apparently improved over the Z7II/Z6II viewfinders. But that might matter more for birds than polar bears and arctic foxes.

I used my Z9 and Z7II at Seal River on Hudson Bay in November, 2022. Had both set up and in hand with a 500 mm PF on one body (sometimes with the 1.4x TCIII on it) and the Z 100-400 on the other. We had temps down to -15F and windchills to -35F. Both Z bodies worked very well, with no issues. I did replace the battery on the Z7II most days between morning and afternoon shoots. It wasn't empty, but you get less battery life in very cold temps. The Z9's EN EL 18d got me through most days without replacing it.
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Thanks. Rental too expensive for gear I won't hopefully be using on the trip (unless the Z9 dies). As for use of the camera once I own it, I'd likely rarely if ever use it for wildlife so not so concerned about it's 'shortcomings' compared to the Z9/8. Thanks for sharing the experiences from your trip. Our daytime highs will be -15 to -20 (in "unrelenting wind" :) ) and 5 or 10 degrees colder overnight so while I'm now confident my batteries and (recharging) regime will keep with power, I now worry about my own body working well sleepign in those temps :) Biggest annoyance is waking to find one's drool has frozen your face to the sleeping bag LOL
 
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