Tips for shooting diving Osprey

[tigger4t]

I've had two sessions in an Osprey hide recently and while I can get tack sharp shots before the dive and when the bird comes out of the water, sharp focus of the actual dive has eluded me 9 times out of 10. The birds are anything from 35 to 80 feet away and I'm shooting with a D850 and 300mm PF set-up and I hope used according to Steve's excellent Nikon AF book - I am using Group AF rather than single point to make tracking a little easier and have the focus range of the lens limited. Blocked Shot AF Response is set to 3 and Subject Motion is in the middle.

I do actually practice on other BIF before each shoot but geese, ducks and cormorant are not in the same speed bracket as a diving Osprey.

Does anyone have any shooting tips for this particular scenario please? For example, should I pump BBAF as it dives or perhaps use a 70-200 to get a slightly wider perspective to track the bird (the Ospey's wingspan actually fills the frame with a 300PF if they are diving close so buying a 70-200 is a definite possibility anyway).

 

[SoCalRick]

I did a lot of Osprey photography with my D850, and the dive to the water was always tricky. For best results you want to keep the subject centered in the frame, which is often easier said than done. I typically would use Group AF for this and would pump the AF button whenever the bird didn't look sharp to me in the viewfinder.

What shutter speed and fps are you using?

Obviously the Z9's subject tracking, additional focus points and higher frame rates give it a huge advantage over the D850, which is why I hardly every use my D850 any more. If this is something you are interested in spending a lot more time on in the future, you may want to consider upgrading. Maybe the anticipated upcoming Z8 announcement is just what you have been waiting for.

 

[Warren D]

Welcome to my ultimate frustration! I've been trying to photograph osprey (and their dives) for about 10 years. I've used everything from a D300 to a Z9 and lenses from 70-200's to 600EFL with a tc and 800pf.
The best advice I have is practice. It's a numbers game, the more opportunities you get the better your chances of getting the shot. That said, you can improve your odds a bit. Watch your backgrounds, if the subject to BG distance is close to or less than the camera to subject distance, the af is going to like going to the BG. You don't say what happens to your focus point during the dive, here it is helpful to study the photos. Does it grab the BG? Where does the focus go to? That can provide insight that can help determine what is happening so you can try to correct it. In general, with the D850, I found group af to be the best, the toughest part is staying on the bird as it dives. As you have observed, not only are they fast, but they can also be erratic as they make last minute corrections to hit their target.
If you are having trouble staying on them, a slightly wider angle might help, once you start getting the hang of it, you can increase your focal length. As you have found, practice with other birds doesn't work well, though I have found Terns to be of a similar level of difficulty. I would not advise pumping the af unless you wander off the subject, let the tracking do it's thing.
One other thing to consider, a diving osprey will usually pick up speed in the last 20 feet above the water. If you don't increase your vertical pan rate, you'll see the osprey drop farther to the bottom of the frame with each shot.
I assume you are using a grip, a fast frame rate will increase your odds.

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

I've had two sessions in an Osprey hide recently and while I can get tack sharp shots before the dive and when the bird comes out of the water, sharp focus of the actual dive has eluded me 9 times out of 10. The birds are anything from 35 to 80 feet away and I'm shooting with a D850 and 300mm PF set-up and I hope used according to Steve's excellent Nikon AF book - I am using Group AF rather than single point to make tracking a little easier and have the focus range of the lens limited. Blocked Shot AF Response is set to 3 and Subject Motion is in the middle.

I do actually practice on other BIF before each shoot but geese, ducks and cormorant are not in the same speed bracket as a diving Osprey.

Does anyone have any shooting tips for this particular scenario please? For example, should I pump BBAF as it dives or perhaps use a 70-200 to get a slightly wider perspective to track the bird (the Ospey's wingspan actually fills the frame with a 300PF if they are diving close so buying a 70-200 is a definite possibility anyway).

I find shooting Osprey from inside a hide (most often in Aviemore) the first one knows about it is when the bird has hit the water. One then "finds" is that the bird most often tries to take off into the wind - and it is muggins chance is your hide is in the best location for the bird that has just splashed down in front of you. In my last trip - we had ONE birds dive and catch in a whole DAY. You can see some images HERE: 2022 08 15 Osprey and a Heron shoot

If you are shooting from a hide -- you must have someone acting as a spotter on a radio to tell you when a bird is approaching and "stooping" which precedes a dive.

The LENS and settings you need depend on your distance to the likely place the bird will fish for my trip I used a 400mm and it worked great on a Z9. As to settings - this depends on the available light - but I used ¹⁄₁₆₀₀ sec at ƒ - 4.0 - ISO 500 - 0 EV

Most shooters who catch a bird diving are not in a hide (look at Mark Smith's videos on YouTube)

When I shoot Birds of Prey Diving you have to catch them when they Stoop (or Hover) just before they dive and then track them down saving your shots until they are close to their target or the water.

 

[tigger4t]

Welcome to my ultimate frustration! I've been trying to photograph osprey (and their dives) for about 10 years. I've used everything from a D300 to a Z9 and lenses from 70-200's to 600EFL with a tc and 800pf.
The best advice I have is practice. It's a numbers game, the more opportunities you get the better your chances of getting the shot. That said, you can improve your odds a bit. Watch your backgrounds, if the subject to BG distance is close to or less than the camera to subject distance, the af is going to like going to the BG. You don't say what happens to your focus point during the dive, here it is helpful to study the photos. Does it grab the BG? Where does the focus go to? That can provide insight that can help determine what is happening so you can try to correct it. In general, with the D850, I found group af to be the best, the toughest part is staying on the bird as it dives. As you have observed, not only are they fast, but they can also be erratic as they make last minute corrections to hit their target.
If you are having trouble staying on them, a slightly wider angle might help, once you start getting the hang of it, you can increase your focal length. As you have found, practice with other birds doesn't work well, though I have found Terns to be of a similar level of difficulty. I would not advise pumping the af unless you wander off the subject, let the tracking do it's thing.
One other thing to consider, a diving osprey will usually pick up speed in the last 20 feet above the water. If you don't increase your vertical pan rate, you'll see the osprey drop farther to the bottom of the frame with each shot.
I assume you are using a grip, a fast frame rate will increase your odds.

Many thanks - I'm shooting at 1/2500th, f4 with Auto-ISO. AF isn't grabbing the background as the whole frame is out of focus - it's as if the AF can't lock on.

 

[tigger4t]

I find shooting Osprey from inside a hide (most often in Aviemore) the first one knows about it is when the bird has hit the water. One then "finds" is that the bird most often tries to take off into the wind - and it is muggins chance is your hide is in the best location for the bird that has just splashed down in front of you. In my last trip - we had ONE birds dive and catch in a whole DAY. You can see some images HERE: 2022 08 15 Osprey and a Heron shoot

If you are shooting from a hide -- you must have someone acting as a spotter on a radio to tell you when a bird is approaching and "stooping" which precedes a dive.

The LENS and settings you need depend on your distance to the likely place the bird will fish for my trip I used a 400mm and it worked great on a Z9. As to settings - this depends on the available light - but I used ¹⁄₁₆₀₀ sec at ƒ - 4.0 - ISO 500 - 0 EV

Most shooters who catch a bird diving are not in a hide (look at Mark Smith's videos on YouTube)

When I shoot Birds of Prey Diving you have to catch them when they Stoop (or Hover) just before they dive and then track them down saving your shots until they are close to their target or the water.

Many thanks - it's a professional setup with a dedicated hide and a spotter. On the first trip we had one dive in 4 hours and on the second, 8 dives over the same time. Most of the birds have perched in a tree before fishing although one or two went straight in without much warning. Thanks for the tip about the 'stoop'.

 

[tigger4t]

I did a lot of Osprey photography with my D850, and the dive to the water was always tricky. For best results you want to keep the subject centered in the frame, which is often easier said than done. I would pump the AF button whenever the bird didn't look sharp to me in the viewfinder.

What shutter speed and fps are you using?

Obviously the Z9's subject tracking, additional focus points and higher frame rates give it a huge advantage over the D850, which is why I hardly every use my D850 any more. If this is something you are interested in spending a lot more time on in the future, you may want to consider upgrading. Maybe the anticipated upcoming Z8 announcement is just that you have been waiting for.

Thanks - unfortunately upgrading to a Z9 isn't an option at the moment. I'm using 1/2500th and 9 fps.

 

[Warren D]

If you can see the perched birds from the blind, they sometimes poop before they dive. Otherwise just watch for the head bob, it can signal a dive is immenant. If they bend forward, tail up can sometimes signal a dive. Sounds like you may not be getting AF lock to begin with. It's hard to start a pan when they move so fast. The biggest help is to watch them and learn their behaviors. I've spent 100's of hours watching and waiting just in the last 5-6 weeks and other than one 1.25 hour dive fest (with over 50 birds and 100 dives!) I've seen maybe a dozen dives. As I watch, I'm watching for behaviors, any little sign of impending activity. In one location, the head bob is a fairly reliable giveaway. After 10 years I still have a lot to learn about them.....
The shot I posted above was with a D850 with 600 efl and 1.4 hand held so it can be done.

 

[Doomrider74]

Thanks - unfortunately upgrading to a Z9 isn't an option at the moment. I'm using 1/2500th and 9 fps.

Personally, I'd go with 1/3200 as a minimum, at least until you get good enough with your tracking to use slower speeds: those guys are fast when diving.

 

[JoelKlein]

Great advice here.
My last year’s trip to Florida, I had a hard time finding ospreys fishing, and when I did catch it, the osprey missed!
But pelicans dove constantly, They also dive full speed, it was good practice for me.
Z9 prior to ver. 2 with 500pf

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[tigger4t]

If you can see the perched birds from the blind, they sometimes poop before they dive. Otherwise just watch for the head bob, it can signal a dive is immenant. If they bend forward, tail up can sometimes signal a dive. Sounds like you may not be getting AF lock to begin with. It's hard to start a pan when they move so fast. The biggest help is to watch them and learn their behaviors. I've spent 100's of hours watching and waiting just in the last 5-6 weeks and other than one 1.25 hour dive fest (with over 50 birds and 100 dives!) I've seen maybe a dozen dives. As I watch, I'm watching for behaviors, any little sign of impending activity. In one location, the head bob is a fairly reliable giveaway. After 10 years I still have a lot to learn about them.....
The shot I posted above was with a D850 with 600 efl and 1.4 hand held so it can be done.

Thanks again - that's a stunning image. My shot of the same pose by comparison was out of focus and in the bottom right corner of the frame with the tips of its claws out of shot. I had started to notice that one particular bird raised its tail before leaving the perch - as you say, a lot to learn but an enjoyable way to learn.

 

[tigger4t]

Personally, I'd go with 1/3200 as a minimum, at least until you get good enough with your tracking to use slower speeds: those guys are fast when diving.

Thanks - I started at 3200 but Auto ISO was at the D850's limit (I had already raised it from my normal 6400 max) and the images were too grainy even for Topaz AI - I went down to 2500 or 2000 as the light was so poor and realise that it was a compromise but I did get some sharp shots of the birds emerging from the water, trout in claws.

 

[Rjdane2]

I've had two sessions in an Osprey hide recently and while I can get tack sharp shots before the dive and when the bird comes out of the water, sharp focus of the actual dive has eluded me 9 times out of 10. The birds are anything from 35 to 80 feet away and I'm shooting with a D850 and 300mm PF set-up and I hope used according to Steve's excellent Nikon AF book - I am using Group AF rather than single point to make tracking a little easier and have the focus range of the lens limited. Blocked Shot AF Response is set to 3 and Subject Motion is in the middle.

I do actually practice on other BIF before each shoot but geese, ducks and cormorant are not in the same speed bracket as a diving Osprey.

Does anyone have any shooting tips for this particular scenario please? For example, should I pump BBAF as it dives or perhaps use a 70-200 to get a slightly wider perspective to track the bird (the Ospey's wingspan actually fills the frame with a 300PF if they are diving close so buying a 70-200 is a definite possibility anyway).

I shoot a lot of diving ospreys due to every time I go out there are so many at my local small lake. I don’t use a hide as ospreys are usually not bothered by people at all in New Jersey. I shoot with 600mm f4 on a tripod or sometimes handheld. I now use a z9 but used a d850 for years doing the same. My settings for this are usually 1/2500 f4 auto iso using exposure compensation as needed. With my d850 I used group autofocus set to lock on 5. The trick is to keep the ospreynin the lower portion of the group autofocus so the water doesn’t get hit first and the focus jump to that. Now with the z9 I’ll use wide area or auto af with animal detection. If you look at my instagram ( rjdanegerous ) all those ospreys were shot with the above settings.

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[JoelKlein]

Where in NJ is that location?

 

[Whiskeyman]

Practice. Patience. Persistance. Repeat.

 

[Kip Cotter]

I'd consider turning stabilization off on the lens, and just to test it, consider trying a cycle or two in DX mode. The enlarged osprey in the frame (assuming you have room) may provide for better focus (some of which may be you staying on the bird better, some being the camera 'seeing' it better). 1/3200+ and sunshine sure wouldn't hurt; out of your control I know.

Edit : I see now you mentioned that they are already filling the frame - so DX is a no-go at that rate.

 

[Ralph]

Everyone above is giving great advice. I would go with upping the Lock-on to 5 , pumping the af button if you lose focus but not before you have the group icon on the bird, and maintaining the group focus on subject before firing away which does require practice. I don’t think I would limit focus range, but that’s me. If you have VR on put it on sport not normal.

 

[Rjdane2]

Everyone above is giving great advice. I would go with upping the Lock-on to 5 , pumping the af button if you lose focus but not before you have the group icon on the bird, and maintaining the group focus on subject before firing away which does require practice. I don’t think I would limit focus range, but that’s me. If you have VR on put it on sport not normal.

I agree when you lose focus to let go and hit the button again, having lock-in set to 5 may hold the af on whatever you jumped focus to accidentally longer than you want. By letting go and pressing it again (pumping) will get you back on track faster. I have fast glass so I leave the af at full because sometimes they come close but if I’m using my 200-500 for some reason I limit it due to it being slower.

 

[Ralph]

I agree when you lose focus to let go and hit the button again, having lock-in set to 5 may hold the af on whatever you jumped focus to accidentally longer than you want. By letting go and pressing it again (pumping) will get you back on track faster. I have fast glass so I leave the af at full because sometimes they come close but if I’m using my 200-500 for some reason I limit it due to it being slower.

Hi John,
I live in the area . Just wondering what part of NJ do you love. I’m originally from ASbury but now live in the Ramtown section of Howell off of exit 91.

 

[Rjdane2]

Hi John,
I live in the area . Just wondering what part of NJ do you love. I’m originally from ASbury but now live in the Ramtown section of Howell off of exit 91.

Morning Ralph, I live and shoot in Monmouth County.

 

[JoelKlein]

Morning Ralph, I live and shoot in Monmouth County.

Thank you.
Any more specific locations? Time of year? I would love to photograph them without traveling to Florida

 

[arbitrage]

Shooting from a hide probably restricts your view and your range of motion to do a smooth pan down with the osprey. Being that close with filling the wingspan at 300mm on FF is also going to make things way more difficult.
In N. America hides are a rare thing and certainly no one uses hides to shoot Osprey as the birds don't give a damn about people. I have them hovering over me as I stand on the shoreline of our local salt water lagoon. Maybe this is different in the UK/EU? Would the Osprey just leave if you were to stand outside the hide?

Personally I almost always used Auto AF on D500/D850 for BIF and especially the faster ones. The system really seemed to prioritize whatever was moving and closest to the camera and it is easier to keep the larger Auto AF area over the fast bird than it is the Group AF diamond.

I also would consider trying the 70-200/2.8. If you have wings filling the frame at 300mm then 200mm would be plenty to crop and get a nice shot while making tracking much easier. Also with bird so large in the frame your DOF is very narrow and just slight focus shifts can render part of the bird OOF. The f/2.8 over the f/4 would also get you lower ISO or double the SS for any given lighting conditions.

 

[Warren D]

...... as the birds don't give a damn about people.

Not always, it depends on the location and the individual bird. I've seen some who don't care and others who will move to a different area.

 

[LTK]

If its the river Gwash hide at Rutland UK I can confirm its really tricky there. Its a working Trout farm , they have an Osprey or two visit there every year after the Trout . The visits from the birds can vary and you only get a few hours early morning or evening in this paid for hide . Sometimes you may only get one bird visit and one dive during your visit , also they may come in and dive from behind the hide depending on the wind direction. The hide opening viewing window is small and awkward ,its extremely difficult to follow the bird in such restricted conditions and you often get little chance to manoeuvre the lens in time . Its also in a valley so lighting can be bad , last time I went I was at ISO8000-12800 1/1000-1600 with my A1 200-600 , I also took my D850 300mm f2.8 but the A1 was much better suited for it despite the much slower lens .
Best I got with the D850 was auto AF , it missed quite a few but I thought it did better than group , anyway good luck.

 

[tigger4t]

If its the river Gwash hide at Rutland UK I can confirm its really tricky there. Its a working Trout farm , they have an Osprey or two visit there every year after the Trout . The visits from the birds can vary and you only get a few hours early morning or evening in this paid for hide . Sometimes you may only get one bird visit and one dive during your visit , also they may come in and dive from behind the hide depending on the wind direction. The hide opening viewing window is small and awkward ,its extremely difficult to follow the bird in such restricted conditions and you often get little chance to manoeuvre the lens in time . Its also in a valley so lighting can be bad , last time I went I was at ISO8000-12800 1/1000-1600 with my A1 200-600 , I also took my D850 300mm f2.8 but the A1 was much better suited for it despite the much slower lens .
Best I got with the D850 was auto AF , it missed quite a few but I thought it did better than group , anyway good luck.

Yes, it's the Gwash River Hide - I've shot them over Rutland Water a few times too but they are generally too distant