Well Sh*t just got real...now what to do?

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DavidT

DavidT

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With the announcement of the Sony a1 which appears on paper to be a wildlife photographers dream it has made future decisions harder.

Talking through this to myself I have the following thoughts:

If we are to assume they took everything great about the a9II and amped it up with better EVF, MP, FPS, bird eye AF, animal eye AF there really isn't anything to not like (well we can still likely complain about the menus, at this point if it delivers on the above who cares).

I am a Nikon shooter and been happy with my D850, not happy with my Z6 which has hardly been used and I need to get around to selling it. I have planned on buying a D6 in a couple of weeks and adding a 600 F4 to my kit in May.

While the D6 has been the plan in the back of my mind I have considered not buying the D6 and rather buy an a9II with a 200-600 to try out since this combo with a grip is essentially the same cost as a D6. This would give me some experience with Sony and if I believe it is better then maybe investing in a Sony 600 rather than Nikon in May might be smarter.

I do believe at some point in the near future Nikon will come out with a pro camera to offer similar performance of the a9II but with the announcement of the new a1 I am now wondering if Nikon is the right path forward for me.

I love my 500pf, I love how Nikon DSLR feel, I love the other trinity lenses and am impressed the Z mounts are even better which has given me hope and staying the path of Nikon by being patient. I do believe that Nikon Z trinity lenses are better than Sony and if this continues the Nikon 600 Z lens should be mind blowing but the Z cameras seem to be a couple of years behind Sony.

I also wonder since Nikon uses some Sony sensors if this will also keep them 1-3 years behind Sony.

One of the pros for sticking with Nikon has been the available used F mount lenses especially the super tele primes such as 400 2.8, 600 F4 etc. This has allowed me to have some awesome glass that I couldn't afford as quickly if buying new Sony glass. Nikon also has F mount lenses that Sony doesn't make which is attractive.

But with all that being said the new a1 really has me second guessing buying a D6 and for that matter even staying with Nikon. This level of gear is expensive and sadly money doesn't grow on trees so deciding how to spend the money we have is a real struggle.

The negatives I see with the a1 is they are using SD-UHS-II and CFexpress A. The only CFexpress A cards B&H has is 80GB at $198 and 160GB and $398 and they are less than have the speed of CFexpress type B! I have got to believe at 30fps and 50MP 160 gig isn't going to last long, not to even mention 8K video which I don't do video now but who knows about the future. I could see a crap ton of money being spent on new cards that are slower than what I currently have. I have to wonder how much buffer Sony is providing since their other cameras take a while to clear and aren't doing 30fps at 50MP so this could be a big bottle neck.

New very expensive cards, new card readers, new batteries, all new lenses to switch (yes I know going all Z in the future would be new lenses at some point but could be a slower migration and still have some special, lower use lenses could stay F mount with the adapter).

Is it worth it? Is it smart to buy a D6 and keep marching on with the gear I have or is the a1 the camera that makes sense to pause on the Nikon gear and begin a transition to Sony?

Ugh sometimes having choices is enough to make one crazy!
 
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Leaving the other points aside, I do want to make a comment on 'Nikon uses Sony sensors' and its impact. Sony essentially runs a bespoke-design fab in addition to making their own chips, much as Samsung and TSMC do - in other words they manufacture others' designs for them, something that's becoming more common these days (Intel is even using TSMC to fab some of their chips now). It looks like Nikon does a lot of original research on sensors, some of which they share with Sony and some of which they don't. The D850 sensor and the A7r 42mp sensors are quite different. More to the point would be whether Sony has the spare manufacturing capacity. Nikon could always use TSMC :)
 
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I saw those specs too...and they’re mighty impressive... it it’s $6500 and that’s before you buy top end glass for it...so with extra batteries and long primes and such you’re looking atprobably 15 to 20K for a system...and unless you’re making a lifing with it or independently wealthy one has to ask if the bang for t(e buck is there. It is not for me so looking t systems that $$ doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Also...unless your technique and skills are very high end it is unlikely that one could take advantage of it...mine aren’t tht good, and I’m not making money with it...and while I actually could easily afford to drop 20K on a system (even though I’m not independently wealth) it’s just not worth it.
 
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Neil Laubenthal said:
I saw those specs too...and they’re mighty impressive... it it’s $6500 and that’s before you buy top end glass for it...so with extra batteries and long primes and such you’re looking atprobably 15 to 20K for a system...and unless you’re making a lifing with it or independently wealthy one has to ask if the bang for t(e buck is there. It is not for me so looking t systems that $$ doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Also...unless your technique and skills are very high end it is unlikely that one could take advantage of it...mine aren’t tht good, and I’m not making money with it...and while I actually could easily afford to drop 20K on a system (even though I’m not independently wealth) it’s just not worth it.
Click to expand...
All has crossed my mind as well.

I built a B&H cart and I am at $20,739. This replaces my current set of lenses minus the 500PF but adds the 100-400 and 600mm F4.

90mm Macro
600f4
1.4tc
100-400
70-180 2.8
14-24 f2.8
24-70 2.8

All the lenses I really need. I already have budgeted $13K for Nikon 600 and $6,500 for D6. So the 600 is a wash and the D6 is a wash with the a1.

Fortunately I bought most of my current gear either used or on sale, not an early adopter fee on any of my gear.

So doing the math if I sell what I have and replace with the above with the lenses and 2 a1 I would be about $4k out of pocket not including the 600 and one body I already have budgeted to buy over the next 90 days. So I could swap systems minus cards, card reader and some batteries for about $4k. That has me thinking! I would lose about $1,200 on my gear vs what I paid and what it is worth. That isn't that big of a stretch for a big leap forward.
 
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I, too, really like the specs "on paper" of this new camera and have no doubt it is going to be a beast. But as has already been mentioned, switching from Brand Z to Brand S is not for the faint of heart or light of wallet. In fact, even if one were a professional making a living with his / her camera, that kind of investment is not something to be made lightly. Fact is, before I retired, many times I was more careful with my business money than my personal money. What is spent on a hobby one can factor in entertainment/enjoyment into the value equation. In a business, every expenditure needs to result in income greater than the expenditure. Nobody stays in business very long by breaking even or losing money.

Unfortunately, as a retired guy, $6,500 for a new camera body puts it outside my price range so it's all an academic discussion for me. Even if it was a Nikon product and I could use all my current lenses, I just could not afford that kind of cash and even if I were in business the total investment picture (depreciation, initial outlay, any ongoing costs such as batteries etc.) would have to increase my income enough to justify it.
 
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dtibbals said:
All has crossed my mind as well.

I built a B&H cart and I am at $20,739. This replaces my current set of lenses minus the 500PF but adds the 100-400 and 600mm F4.

So doing the math if I sell what I have and replace with the above with the lenses and 2 a1 I would be about $4k out of pocket not including the 600 and one body I already have budgeted to buy over the next 90 days. So I could swap systems minus cards, card reader and some batteries for about $4k. That has me thinking! I would lose about $1,200 on my gear vs what I paid and what it is worth. That isn't that big of a stretch for a big leap forward.
Click to expand...

My used Nikon gear would not get me near enough to bring that down to a reasonable number...although with my upcoming 7II and 500PF planned nand budgeted purposes I would be in the 8K or so range for used...but that’s still another 12K to switch. The 7 pounds for the 600/f4 would (along with the price) make it out of my ‘worth it’ range. The 100-400 and TC would be in that range and with 50MP would replace the pixels on target loss I would get on FF vs DX. I would also need a walking around/travel lens...probably the 24-220 and that would end up just a few K new investment after deducting the previously planned 7II and 500PF which I would not get if I was switching.

Might be something to consider...have to think on it. OTOH...I’m just a retired mostly travel and wildlife/landscape shooter that uses my images almost exclusively on the web...and I already barely justified my planned upgrades to myself...so this is probably all just wishful thinking.
 
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Buying the latest camera is like buying the latest computer, phone, tablet, what have you. There is always something better on the horizon! I have fallen prey to that in the past, and I still find it very tempting! I thought about Sony several cameras ago, but decided it was too expensive to change systems. I have not regretted that decision. I find I still need to learn to be more proficient with the gear I have.
 
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Agreed. Are we reaching 'good enough' on camera bodies? I can print the 16x20 and 20x24's that I need (I'm shooting a D850 and Z7 and don't see a need for more pixels). I don't shoot video and I don't need 20fps. Focus capability seems adequate. I'd like smaller/lighter gear as I get older, but lenses interest me a lot more now than new camera bodies.
 
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I'm already on a list or two to get one :)

The truth is, this is the wildlife camera I've talked about having since the D3x (not a typo - it's been that long). I've always wanted a pro body that could deliver high res, killer AF, huge buffer, and a fast frame rate. Every single camera has come up short in some area - until now. The A1 checks every single box with the possible exception of ISO performance (I have yet to see any higher ISO samples - or any samples, but I am confident).

Still, it think for now the a1 will become my primary camera along with my a9ii. I feel like this is a camera I can easily have in my bag for the next 5 years. I had thought of my Sony outfit as a secondary system, but right now Nikon just doesn't have an answer to this and I doubt we'll see anything even this year (I'd love to be wrong though). Don't worry though - my Nikon gear isn't going anywhere (well, most of it's not :D )

As for swapping systems, consider this. If you're moving towards mirrorless - and the truth is if you are moving that's about the only direction we have open at this point - you're likely going to want all native lenses. Since every brand tossed out a new mount, you have to re-purchase everything anyway. With adapters you can get by with old gear for a time, but eventually you'll pull out your wallet for the native glass. Since this is going to happen anyway, now's the time to switch if you want to.
 
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dtibbals said:
With the announcement of the Sony a1 which appears on paper to be a wildlife photographers dream it has made future decisions harder.

Talking through this to myself I have the following thoughts:

If we are to assume they took everything great about the a9II and amped it up with better EVF, MP, FPS, bird eye AF, animal eye AF there really isn't anything to not like (well we can still likely complain about the menus, at this point if it delivers on the above who cares).

I am a Nikon shooter and been happy with my D850, not happy with my Z6 which has hardly been used and I need to get around to selling it. I have planned on buying a D6 in a couple of weeks and adding a 600 F4 to my kit in May.

While the D6 has been the plan in the back of my mind I have considered not buying the D6 and rather buy an a9II with a 200-600 to try out since this combo with a grip is essentially the same cost as a D6. This would give me some experience with Sony and if I believe it is better then maybe investing in a Sony 600 rather than Nikon in May might be smarter.

I do believe at some point in the near future Nikon will come out with a pro camera to offer similar performance of the a9II but with the announcement of the new a1 I am now wondering if Nikon is the right path forward for me.

I love my 500pf, I love how Nikon DSLR feel, I love the other trinity lenses and am impressed the Z mounts are even better which has given me hope and staying the path of Nikon by being patient. I do believe that Nikon Z trinity lenses are better than Sony and if this continues the Nikon 600 Z lens should be mind blowing but the Z cameras seem to be a couple of years behind Sony.

I also wonder since Nikon uses some Sony sensors if this will also keep them 1-3 years behind Sony.

One of the pros for sticking with Nikon has been the available used F mount lenses especially the super tele primes such as 400 2.8, 600 F4 etc. This has allowed me to have some awesome glass that I couldn't afford as quickly if buying new Sony glass. Nikon also has F mount lenses that Sony doesn't make which is attractive.

But with all that being said the new a1 really has me second guessing buying a D6 and for that matter even staying with Nikon. This level of gear is expensive and sadly money doesn't grow on trees so deciding how to spend the money we have is a real struggle.

The negatives I see with the a1 is they are using SD-UHS-II and CFexpress A. The only CFexpress A cards B&H has is 80GB at $198 and 160GB and $398 and they are less than have the speed of CFexpress type B! I have got to believe at 30fps and 50MP 160 gig isn't going to last long, not to even mention 8K video which I don't do video now but who knows about the future. I could see a crap ton of money being spent on new cards that are slower than what I currently have. I have to wonder how much buffer Sony is providing since their other cameras take a while to clear and aren't doing 30fps at 50MP so this could be a big bottle neck.

New very expensive cards, new card readers, new batteries, all new lenses to switch (yes I know going all Z in the future would be new lenses at some point but could be a slower migration and still have some special, lower use lenses could stay F mount with the adapter).

Is it worth it? Is it smart to buy a D6 and keep marching on with the gear I have or is the a1 the camera that makes sense to pause on the Nikon gear and begin a transition to Sony?

Ugh sometimes having choices is enough to make one crazy!
Click to expand...
For mine. I will stick with Nikon. If I had bought into the Sony, Canon, Fuji or whatever other brand I would stick with that brand. The fact is that the camera makers leap frog each other ad nauseam and will continue to do so. It would drive me absolutely crazy if I was to try and keep up with advances made by each maker. Nikon will catch up and surpass then Sony/Canon will catch up and surpass and on it goes. I will just keep on shooting.
 
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dtibbals said:
I also wonder since Nikon uses some Sony sensors if this will also keep them 1-3 years behind Sony.
Click to expand...

Note the A9 was announced on 4/19/2017. That's 3 years and 9 months ago. Nearly 4 years and still Nikon has no mirrorless body to compete with the A9.

And yet, personally I would wait until Nikon announces their "high performance" Z body to make a decision. Hopefully it will be designed to compete against the R5 and even the A1, not the 4-year-old A9.

Cliche but true: “Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been.” Hopefully Nikon is doing so.
 
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"As for swapping systems, consider this. If you're moving towards mirrorless - and the truth is if you are moving that's about the only direction we have open at this point - you're likely going to want all native lenses. Since every brand tossed out a new mount, you have to re-purchase everything anyway. With adapters you can get by with old gear for a time, but eventually you'll pull out your wallet for the native glass. Since this is going to happen anyway, now's the time to switch if you want to."

In a perfect world I think I'd agree, but both Canon and Nikon have gone to great lengths to ensure that their huge array of older glass works on their new mirrorless cameras. If a new lens is introduced exclusively for mirrorless, like the new Canon fresnel lenses or the stellar Nikon Z lenses, then there's a compelling reason to purchase them. But it seems to me that there's no reason to 'switch' now when you can still use great lenses like the Canon and Nikon telephotos (used) at a fraction of the new Sony cost. I can see why Sony would like to equalize the Canon/Nikon lens history, since they have nothing comparable. When I can get long Sony glass at a 50-70% discount... I'm keeping feet in both camps for now. :)
 
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eaj101 said:
"As for swapping systems, consider this. If you're moving towards mirrorless - and the truth is if you are moving that's about the only direction we have open at this point - you're likely going to want all native lenses. Since every brand tossed out a new mount, you have to re-purchase everything anyway. With adapters you can get by with old gear for a time, but eventually you'll pull out your wallet for the native glass. Since this is going to happen anyway, now's the time to switch if you want to."

In a perfect world I think I'd agree, but both Canon and Nikon have gone to great lengths to ensure that their huge array of older glass works on their new mirrorless cameras. If a new lens is introduced exclusively for mirrorless, like the new Canon fresnel lenses or the stellar Nikon Z lenses, then there's a compelling reason to purchase them. But it seems to me that there's no reason to 'switch' now when you can still use great lenses like the Canon and Nikon telephotos (used) at a fraction of the new Sony cost. I can see why Sony would like to equalize the Canon/Nikon lens history, since they have nothing comparable. When I can get long Sony glass at a 50-70% discount... I'm keeping feet in both camps for now. :)
Click to expand...

I certainly see your point with the older glass, but I guess I'm thinking long term. In a few years, Nikon and Canon will have a selection of native glass that will accommodate most shooters - and can be used without adapters (I dislike that FTZ adapter a little more every day LOL). However, I know that also means the used market will probably see a flood of newer "older" glass, so if you don't mind the adapters, it may be a good way to save some cash. I think it really depends on your priorities and budget. In this context, the OP was juggling a pair of $6500 cameras and a 600mm :)

Also, Nikon's AF speed does take a hit with an adapter attached (with most lenses - lenses that are slow to start with seem about the same). Also, just recently we had a member who's adapter refused to release and required repair - just something else to keep me up at night when I'm planning what gear to take on trips LOL! At any rate my point is that I think (and readily agree it's a wild guess on my part) there's a large segment of shooters that will likely want to transition to dedicated native glass sooner rather than later.

I agree with keeping a foot in both camps for sure. I'm still optimistic Nikon will release a drool-worthy pro mirrorless camera eventually. (y)
 
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kimball said:
Note the A9 was announced on 4/19/2017. That's 3 years and 9 months ago. Nearly 4 years and still Nikon has no mirrorless body to compete with the A9.

And yet, personally I would wait until Nikon announces their "high performance" Z body to make a decision. Hopefully it will be designed to compete against the R5 and even the A1, not the 4-year-old A9.

Cliche but true: “Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been.” Hopefully Nikon is doing so.
Click to expand...

Agree - I think if waiting is an option it's a good idea. I don't think we'll know for sure which company - or companies - are the "best" for whatever type of photography we do for a year or two.

Of course, since I already have a selection of Sony glass, I'm personally very interested in getting the new a1 :)
 
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Steve said:
Agree - I think if waiting is an option it's a good idea. I don't think we'll know for sure which company - or companies - are the "best" for whatever type of photography we do for a year or two.
Click to expand...
100%. Unless your current setup is broken or totally unsuitable, the smart move is to wait.

Peak "announcement hype" is not a good time to make a buying decision.

Then later, peak "initial first-looks hype" is not a good time to make a buying decision.

Then even later, peak "sponsored full review hype" is definitely not a good time to make a buying decision.

Finally, "real world review" from trusted sources is a great time to make a buying decision. In other words, wait for Steve's review. ;-)

Of course, since I already have a selection of Sony glass, I'm personally very interested in getting the new a1 :)
Click to expand...
Not to mention you're well-positioned to have the most authoritative A1 review on the internet for wildlife usage!
 
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The greatest advantage of being retired is I have all the time I need to go out in nature with my camera and take photos. My wife and I head to the field 3-4 times a week all year around (even during our gray cold Kentucky winters). The greatest disadvantage is money is harder to come by and the decision on what to spend that money on becomes all the more difficult and the need to hold onto personal luxury items like camera bodies and lenses (I'm a hobbyist mainly. Sell a few prints here and there and we have an annual calendar but we don't even break even with this stuff) for even longer than would be considered frugal.
Jeff
 
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kimball said:
100%. Unless your current setup is broken or totally unsuitable, the smart move is to wait.

Peak "announcement hype" is not a good time to make a buying decision.

Then later, peak "initial first-looks hype" is not a good time to make a buying decision.

Then even later, peak "sponsored full review hype" is definitely not a good time to make a buying decision.

Finally, "real world review" from trusted sources is a great time to make a buying decision. In other words, wait for Steve's review. ;-)


Not to mention you're well-positioned to have the most authoritative A1 review on the internet for wildlife usage!
Click to expand...
I must disagree and be the voice of impulse buying. I bought the D500 and the 500mm PF on their announcement days and they were both great purchases. Sometimes you just know its right. The problem I have is that my wife and I talked it over and as far as the outlay to switch to Sony, well, I'm just not worth it. Its better have that money in the bank than to have it out here generating fun, enthusiasm, and happiness.
 
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Charlie Lasswell said:
I must disagree and be the voice of impulse buying. I bought the D500 and the 500mm PF on their announcement days and they were both great purchases. Sometimes you just know its right. The problem I have is that my wife and I talked it over and as far as the outlay to switch to Sony, well, I'm just not worth it. Its better have that money in the bank than to have it out here generating fun, enthusiasm, and happiness.
Click to expand...
Oh for sure. I'm all for fun impulse buying. But I think "smart impulse buying" is an oxymoron. ;)

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be on any high horse. Most of my camera purchases over my lifetime have been incredibly dumb, and yet really fun. :p
 
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Steve said:
I'm already on a list or two to get one :)

The truth is, this is the wildlife camera I've talked about having since the D3x (not a typo - it's been that long). I've always wanted a pro body that could deliver high res, killer AF, huge buffer, and a fast frame rate. Every single camera has come up short in some area - until now. The A1 checks every single box with the possible exception of ISO performance (I have yet to see any higher ISO samples - or any samples, but I am confident).

Still, it think for now the a1 will become my primary camera along with my a9ii. I feel like this is a camera I can easily have in my bag for the next 5 years. I had thought of my Sony outfit as a secondary system, but right now Nikon just doesn't have an answer to this and I doubt we'll see anything even this year (I'd love to be wrong though). Don't worry though - my Nikon gear isn't going anywhere (well, most of it's not :D )

As for swapping systems, consider this. If you're moving towards mirrorless - and the truth is if you are moving that's about the only direction we have open at this point - you're likely going to want all native lenses. Since every brand tossed out a new mount, you have to re-purchase everything anyway. With adapters you can get by with old gear for a time, but eventually you'll pull out your wallet for the native glass. Since this is going to happen anyway, now's the time to switch if you want to.
Click to expand...
Have you heard when this camera is coming out?
I think I’m holding off on the D6 and anymore Nikon equipment right now. I can wait to make a decision until I pick up a 600 which has been planned by May/June. If I need to push that purchase a little I can. I could easily keep the D850 with the wide angles I don’t use much and start to sell off the gear I do use and replace with Sony gear to accommodate the a1.
Steve what lenses for Sony do you have right now other than the 600? Do you like them?
 
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dtibbals said:
Have you heard when this camera is coming out?
I think I’m holding off on the D6 and anymore Nikon equipment right now. I can wait to make a decision until I pick up a 600 which has been planned by May/June. If I need to push that purchase a little I can. I could easily keep the D850 with the wide angles I don’t use much and start to sell off the gear I do use and replace with Sony gear to accommodate the a1.
Steve what lenses for Sony do you have right now other than the 600? Do you like them?
Click to expand...
The release says March.
 
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dtibbals said:
Have you heard when this camera is coming out?
I think I’m holding off on the D6 and anymore Nikon equipment right now. I can wait to make a decision until I pick up a 600 which has been planned by May/June. If I need to push that purchase a little I can. I could easily keep the D850 with the wide angles I don’t use much and start to sell off the gear I do use and replace with Sony gear to accommodate the a1.
Steve what lenses for Sony do you have right now other than the 600? Do you like them?
Click to expand...
Yup, like Charlie says, release is in March.

We have the 100-400 and 200-600. Every one of them has been great. The 600 is (so far) the best I've ever used and I think it takes TCs better than the Nikon as well. (Although, I am very curious about the upcoming Nikon 600mm Z mount lens too).

I think my next lens may be the 16-35 2.8. The consensus from owners say it's incredible.
 
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