What do I need to go back to Nikon?

[Tom Reynolds]

Yes, I am basically a Nikon puke. D-200, D-300, D-7200, D-500 before abandoning Nikon in a snit about having neither a D-500 mirrorless replacement not a lightweight zoom lens.

No, I did not go to the "Dark Side" (Canon) or even Sony. I purchased a little toy camera called the OM Systems OM-1.

What that camera taught me is what I would need to go back to Nikon assuming, that is, that I want birds-in-flight shots and, specifically action shots.

Consider this scenario.

You are in a boat. Dick Vautrinot is driving around the lake waiting for an Osprey to dive for a fish. What mode do you want to be in? Let me tell you: pre-capture, 50 f/s. Why? You want to capture the sequence when the bird hits the water, snatches the fish and struggles to lift off. You want the camera to focus on every frame because the boat is moving and the distance and angle to the subject is also. You want as many poses and backgrounds as possible to get the best shot in that sequence and 25 f/s won't get it and neither will a pre-capture mode that only focuses once.

Cool shot, yes, but that is not the shot you want.

You better be still tracking that bird in pre-capture as it lifts off with the fish, and you better not have tried to fill the frame because here comes the eagle to snatch that fish and your frame better have room for the action. That is the shot you want. You better have at least 45mp because you will need to crop, and your pre-capture buffer better have enough space to capture 1-2 seconds of the Osprey snagging the fish and still be able to track the bird in pre-capture mode until the eagle appears and have another 1-2 seconds of buffer left for the eagle vs. osprey action. That's the shot you want, the eagle stealing the fish from the Osprey.

Now the Z-8 with a 600pf lens would be the perfect rig to attempt that shot once it has pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s and at least 5 seconds (250 frames) of buffer. How do I know this? Well, my OM-1 mark 2 with my 300f4 will shoot a 50 f/s, focusing every frame for 250 images in pre-capture mode. Unfortunately, what it doesn't have is a 45mp sensor, and 20mp simply won't get it.

The secret that I have found is to always shoot in pre-capture @ 50 f/s because one never knows what is going to happen.

Another scenario:

I am at Point Reyes National Seashore with Dan and am shooting a Western Bluebird sitting on a perch with a beautiful creamy background-when the bird takes off and flies right toward me. I was not in pre-capture and my shutter speed was too slow for the Bluebirds wings, so I obtained a great shot of the bird on the perch but not an awesome shot of the bird flying towards me. I learned my lesson, always in pre-capture, always at a BIF shutter speed because you never know.

So, my requirements for my mythical Z-8 ii

1-Pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s
2-250 image buffer
3-Ability to institute a subsequent pre-capture before the buffer has cleared
4-45mp

Yep, do that Nikon and I will be back.

Tom

 

[arbitrage]

The Sony A1II will almost certainly meet all your requirements based on the A9III already doing all that at 24MP/120FPS, the A1II should be able to do it at 60FPS. The only thing is the buffer may be a little less than 250...Sony cameras typically have around 210 regardless of the MPs.
Nikon? Who knows....the Z9II may be able to do all that but it remains to be seen.

A1II and 300/2.8GM with 2xTC will get you 50MP at 600mm at f/5.6 with the best AF in the business and a flawless implemenation of the pre-capture feature based on what the A9III can do.

I should add that during my time with the A9III I also migrated to running the camera with pre-capture engaged all the time at either 30 or 60FPS. 120FPS was best left to specific scenarios but I found running it at 30 or 60 gave me lots of shots my reaction time would have missed. Even just raising the camera to my eye to initiate acquisition of a BIF, the precapture got me shots I'd have missed as I always wait till I see the AF has acquired before triggering the shutter...well the reaction time for my brain to say "yes it has acquired...then fire" misses some shots and the always-on precapture got those shots. You can certainly do another pre-capture burst before the buffer clears.

 

[ajrmd]

Glad the OM system is working for you and producing the results you're trying to achieve. Hopefully, in the next few years as the technology continues to evolve, the majors will be able to produce similar RAW pre-capture. In the interim, I have to accept the state of affairs and focus on what I can capture.

 

[EricKlees]

Lol your first issue is hanging with Dick V.

But in your scenario that you've given I don't have a problem with getting all of my frames in focus at 20 frames a second shooting raw he* using Auto area AF mode with the new bird subject detection. My hit rate is usually 90 to 95%

 

[Tom Reynolds]

When I shoot pre-cap at 25 f/s I often get 0-1 frames with the bird clear of the perch but completely in the frame. At 50 f/s I usually get 2 or more. With a large slow Osprey 20 might be ok but probably not with the Western Bluebird.

 

[Calson]

The limitations of the OM-1 are a problem only when producing 20x30 or larger prints to hang on the wall. For images to post on the web or for video the 20MP is more than enough. Not mentioned is that pre-capture with the Nikon cameras is JPG only and not Raw as with the OM-1 camera.

There is also the matter of cost which matters to some photographers. The OM-1 II camera sells new for $2,400 as compared to the Z8 at $3,500. With MFT lenses the size, weight, and cost is half that of comparable full frame lenses. I have used the Olympus 300mm f/4 on the EM-1 camera with the view angle of a 600mm f/4 lens and shot hand held at 1/10s and had perfectly sharp pictures. Pictures I never could have gotten at that shutter speed with the D850 or D5 cameras that I owned at the time.

Compare the cost for the Nikon 100-400mm f/5.6 with the Olympus equivalent, its 40-150mm f/2.8 (constant aperture) that provides 4 times as much light to the camera sensor. The Z8 needs to use 4x the ISO setting with the slower glass and that negates a good part of the noise differences.

With products like Topaz Photo AI the noise can be removed and the image size increased in a manner that produces great prints or web images so the differences are much less compared to a full frame camera's output from 8 years ago when the D500 was released in 2016.

 

[ricardo00]

The secret that I have found is to always shoot in pre-capture @ 50 f/s because one never knows what is going to happen.

Tom

If you always shoot that way, you must have a phenomenal number of pics to sort through every time you go out to shoot? I went to the Pacifica falcon nest to shoot with an OM-1 user (he had the 300mm f/4 lens) and we were very lucky, had the in air handoff of food from the mama to the chick (first time either of us had gotten that shot). The pictures were not comparable, my Z8/800mm PF was so much better. I keep thinking of switching to the OM system (my 800mm pushes my limit of what I can carry and shoot handheld) but so far, have not been convinced. Maybe if you are in the SF Bay area we can get together and go out and shoot together (ie. at Pt Reyes, etc).

 

[Tom Reynolds]

"The limitations of the OM-1 are a problem only when producing 20x30 or larger prints to hang on the wall"

True except when you need to significantly crop. Unfortunately, "fill the frame" is not indicated in pre-capture because you want room for action if it occurs and room for the bird to fly across the frame so you can get multiple positions.

I think with modern post processing an action shot starting with even 4-5mp after crop is OK because with an action shot, the action is what draws the viewer, not feather details BUT sometimes I need to crop even more. That's why I want a 45MP sensor.

The Z-8/600pf is a close match with an OM-1 m2/300f4. It is more expensive but not outragously so. I have actually delayed purchasing an OM-1 150-400 so that I can actually go back to Nikon if the Z-8 goes where I want it. i will not, however, give up my OM/100-400 because I love the sub 4# weight for hiking.

Tom

 

[Chris K]

If everything hinges on RAW pre-capture, you might end up waiting for a Z8II.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

I think that is my point. Once you have pre-capture in RAW you can't do without. I have heard the same with 45mp vs 20mp.

 

[TNTphotos]

I went to the Pacifica falcon nest to shoot with an OM-1 user (he had the 300mm f/4 lens) and we were very lucky, had the in air handoff of food from the mama to the chick (first time either of us had gotten that shot). The pictures were not comparable, my Z8/800mm PF was so much better. I keep thinking of switching to the OM system (my 800mm pushes my limit of what I can carry and shoot handheld) but so far, have not been convinced. Maybe if you are in the SF Bay area we can get together and go out and shoot together (ie. at Pt Reyes, etc).

The OM-1 would need a 600mm lens to have similar pixel density as your Z8/800mm combo so your comparison above is like comparing your 800mm to a 400mm lens (while shooting at distance). Also, at twice the price, weight and bulk it'd better be twice better.

As for shooting handheld, can you shoot a similar subject, handheld, at the same ISO and SS, or same exposure value as the picture below and post here? (This is SooC JPEG resized to fit, original available if needed.)

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[riseform]

Tom I always enjoy your posts as they are OM-1 related and that's the pathway I've chosen.
That being said, I think you expect too much, and place too much emphasis, on ProCapture as the solution for capturing every possible photographic situation.
The osprey coming out of water with a fish is not a ProCapture situation. Nothing lifts out of the water that quickly and SH2 could have caught that scene easily. In my experience., ProCapture really needs to be focused on the subject before it moves rather than hoping it'll be recognized with bird ID as it enters the viewfinder.
Rather than dreaming of an alternate camera system, I've thought for a long time that you should just invest in the admittedly expensive 150-400 TC. I think it's the best birding lens out there and you can zoom as desired to frame your subject(s). This is particularly true with your OM-1ii which will focus while zooming. I clip some wings now and then, but framing the photo without having to crop is half the fun (and art) or wildlife photography.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

I don't think that SH2 even @ 50f/s would necessarily catch the best frame of the Osprey/Fish encounter although it did catch some of the action, but I am confident it would be unlikely to catch the eagle. Yes, I agree that the 150-400 would be a better choice than the 300 f4 for the reasons that you suggest but framing at the instance that something happens seems above my pay grade.

FYI, my wife hates clipped wings so one will never make our wall.

With the Mark 2 I find no reason to not use ProCapture (pre-capture) except for the additional frames I will need to look at in post. I have two 128gb cards in the camera and rarely need the second card and I have plenty of time between my infrequent trips to sort through images.

In my view the mark 2's focus while zooming and 250 image buffer is a game changer compared to the mark 1. That's what make 100% ProCapture (pre-capture) possible.

 

[Alistair]

Yes, I am basically a Nikon puke. D-200, D-300, D-7200, D-500 before abandoning Nikon in a snit about having neither a D-500 mirrorless replacement not a lightweight zoom lens.

No, I did not go to the "Dark Side" (Canon) or even Sony. I purchased a little toy camera called the OM Systems OM-1.

What that camera taught me is what I would need to go back to Nikon assuming, that is, that I want birds-in-flight shots and, specifically action shots.

Consider this scenario.

You are in a boat. Dick Vautrinot is driving around the lake waiting for an Osprey to dive for a fish. What mode do you want to be in? Let me tell you: pre-capture, 50 f/s. Why? You want to capture the sequence when the bird hits the water, snatches the fish and struggles to lift off. You want the camera to focus on every frame because the boat is moving and the distance and angle to the subject is also. You want as many poses and backgrounds as possible to get the best shot in that sequence and 25 f/s won't get it and neither will a pre-capture mode that only focuses once.

Cool shot, yes, but that is not the shot you want.

You better be still tracking that bird in pre-capture as it lifts off with the fish, and you better not have tried to fill the frame because here comes the eagle to snatch that fish and your frame better have room for the action. That is the shot you want. You better have at least 45mp because you will need to crop, and your pre-capture buffer better have enough space to capture 1-2 seconds of the Osprey snagging the fish and still be able to track the bird in pre-capture mode until the eagle appears and have another 1-2 seconds of buffer left for the eagle vs. osprey action. That's the shot you want, the eagle stealing the fish from the Osprey.

Now the Z-8 with a 600pf lens would be the perfect rig to attempt that shot once it has pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s and at least 5 seconds (250 frames) of buffer. How do I know this? Well, my OM-1 mark 2 with my 300f4 will shoot a 50 f/s, focusing every frame for 250 images in pre-capture mode. Unfortunately, what it doesn't have is a 45mp sensor, and 20mp simply won't get it.

The secret that I have found is to always shoot in pre-capture @ 50 f/s because one never knows what is going to happen.

Another scenario:

I am at Point Reyes National Seashore with Dan and am shooting a Western Bluebird sitting on a perch with a beautiful creamy background-when the bird takes off and flies right toward me. I was not in pre-capture and my shutter speed was too slow for the Bluebirds wings, so I obtained a great shot of the bird on the perch but not an awesome shot of the bird flying towards me. I learned my lesson, always in pre-capture, always at a BIF shutter speed because you never know.

So, my requirements for my mythical Z-8 ii

1-Pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s
2-250 image buffer
3-Ability to institute a subsequent pre-capture before the buffer has cleared
4-45mp

Yep, do that Nikon and

Yes, I am basically a Nikon puke. D-200, D-300, D-7200, D-500 before abandoning Nikon in a snit about having neither a D-500 mirrorless replacement not a lightweight zoom lens.

No, I did not go to the "Dark Side" (Canon) or even Sony. I purchased a little toy camera called the OM Systems OM-1.

What that camera taught me is what I would need to go back to Nikon assuming, that is, that I want birds-in-flight shots and, specifically action shots.

Consider this scenario.

You are in a boat. Dick Vautrinot is driving around the lake waiting for an Osprey to dive for a fish. What mode do you want to be in? Let me tell you: pre-capture, 50 f/s. Why? You want to capture the sequence when the bird hits the water, snatches the fish and struggles to lift off. You want the camera to focus on every frame because the boat is moving and the distance and angle to the subject is also. You want as many poses and backgrounds as possible to get the best shot in that sequence and 25 f/s won't get it and neither will a pre-capture mode that only focuses once.

Cool shot, yes, but that is not the shot you want.

You better be still tracking that bird in pre-capture as it lifts off with the fish, and you better not have tried to fill the frame because here comes the eagle to snatch that fish and your frame better have room for the action. That is the shot you want. You better have at least 45mp because you will need to crop, and your pre-capture buffer better have enough space to capture 1-2 seconds of the Osprey snagging the fish and still be able to track the bird in pre-capture mode until the eagle appears and have another 1-2 seconds of buffer left for the eagle vs. osprey action. That's the shot you want, the eagle stealing the fish from the Osprey.

Now the Z-8 with a 600pf lens would be the perfect rig to attempt that shot once it has pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s and at least 5 seconds (250 frames) of buffer. How do I know this? Well, my OM-1 mark 2 with my 300f4 will shoot a 50 f/s, focusing every frame for 250 images in pre-capture mode. Unfortunately, what it doesn't have is a 45mp sensor, and 20mp simply won't get it.

The secret that I have found is to always shoot in pre-capture @ 50 f/s because one never knows what is going to happen.

Another scenario:

I am at Point Reyes National Seashore with Dan and am shooting a Western Bluebird sitting on a perch with a beautiful creamy background-when the bird takes off and flies right toward me. I was not in pre-capture and my shutter speed was too slow for the Bluebirds wings, so I obtained a great shot of the bird on the perch but not an awesome shot of the bird flying towards me. I learned my lesson, always in pre-capture, always at a BIF shutter speed because you never know.

So, my requirements for my mythical Z-8 ii

1-Pre-capture in RAW @ 50 f/s
2-250 image buffer
3-Ability to institute a subsequent pre-capture before the buffer has cleared
4-45mp

Yep, do that Nikon and I will be back.

Tom

Now we know the camera to get for awesome shots.

 

[Tom Reynolds]

Just to let everyone know that I had a hip replacement 3 months ago and while I now walk a mile daily as exercise, I am quite tired afterward, so the overall weigh of the camera/lens is critical for me whenever I am not in a stationary location, on a boat or in a car.

The result is that I carry my OM-1 m2/100-400f/6.3 on a Black Rapids strap. The lens is light enough that I can delete the tripod collar and hang the rig directly from the camera. The result is a sub 4# rig confirmed on my scale. This rig will only shoot 25 f/s and while it will focus and shoot while zooming, I have enough experience with pre-capture to know I really want a 45mp sensor so that I have enough data after a crop for a decent picture.

Tom