What if: Vello Z extension tubes on a Z100-400

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Michael H
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If I put Vello Extension Tubes on the Z100-400 or 70-200 what happens - MFD goes down? Need more light? What else? Does this even make sense or has anyone tried it?

I have never used tubes, do I understand correctly that I would have to move closer to the subject to get benefit?
 
If I put Vello Extension Tubes on the Z100-400 or 70-200 what happens - MFD goes down? Need more light? What else? Does this even make sense or has anyone tried it?

I have never used tubes, do I understand correctly that I would have to move closer to the subject to get benefit?
Yeah, you reduce the MFD and you lose the ability to focus at far distances or infinity. The light loss is minor for commercial tubes but yeah, there's some light loss.

Things can get tricky when using extension tubes with zoom lenses. The amount that focusing changes (both far focus and MFD) is dependent on both the focal length in use and the length of the extension tube. So focus gets shifted more for the 70-200mm lens with say a 20mm tube added at 70mm than it does for the same combo at 200mm. I've used extension tubes with zoom lenses but I tend to choose a focal length and stick with it rather than zoom in and out while close focusing with the tube in place. Basically you can end up chasing your tail in near macro situations where you focus, change zoom which throws the focus way out, focus again which can change the framing, so you reframe and now focus is out again. Much easier to keep the focal length constant in those situations once you add macro tubes into the mix.
 
If I put Vello Extension Tubes on the Z100-400 or 70-200 what happens - MFD goes down? Need more light? What else? Does this even make sense or has anyone tried it?

I have never used tubes, do I understand correctly that I would have to move closer to the subject to get benefit?
MFD goes down, you'll need more light (how much depends on the focal length and length of extension), and you will not be able to focus to infinity. Odds are quite good that the image quality will suffer, how much depends on the lens and the length of the extension.
 
The general formula is divide the extension tube length by the focal length and add back in the lenses native magnification at that focal length. So you get less benefit using longer focal length lenses. Say a lens has native magnification of .15 at 100 mm and you use a 25mm tube. 25/100 is .25 plus the .15 native gives you .4 magnification. With a 400mm lens it would be 25/400 which is .06 plus whatever the native magnification is.
 
The general formula is divide the extension tube length by the focal length and add back in the lenses native magnification at that focal length. So you get less benefit using longer focal length lenses. Say a lens has native magnification of .15 at 100 mm and you use a 25mm tube. 25/100 is .25 plus the .15 native gives you .4 magnification. With a 400mm lens it would be 25/400 which is .06 plus whatever the native magnification is.
This is complicated by the reduced focal length of many lenses at native MFD.
 
Ok so let's play out my actual use case.

I have the 105Z so not worth it at 100mm.
I have the Plena probably not worth it.
So at a lets say 300mm, is there any chance I can stay as distant as the 105 and get the same or larger magnification.

We have a lot of nasty things in AZ including tarantula hawks (big wasps that sting tarantulas) whose sting is one of the worst in the world. I want to keep a distance.
 
Ok so let's play out my actual use case.

I have the 105Z so not worth it at 100mm.
I have the Plena probably not worth it.
So at a lets say 300mm, is there any chance I can stay as distant as the 105 and get the same or larger magnification.

We have a lot of nasty things in AZ including tarantula hawks (big wasps that sting tarantulas) whose sting is one of the worst in the world. I want to keep a distance.

- The 105 macro lens is a stock 1:1 macro lens. Add say a 20mm tube and it becomes roughly a 1:0.83 macro lens(something 0.83x the sensor size will fill the frame so for a FF sensor something roughly 30mm x 20mm will completely fill the frame) but of course you have to get very close to see that magnification. Pretty cool for static macro subjects but not as useful for live subjects that fly or scurry away if you get too close.

- Say that 300mm was a 300mm f/4 PF F mount lens with its native 0.24 magnification(roughly 1:4). Add the same 20mm tube and the magnification only increases to roughly (1:3.3) That's a small improvement in magnification at the new MFD of the combo but not a huge change though a lot more working distance than the 105mm macro lens.

But you won't be able to work nearly as close with the 300mm PF plus tube combo as you could with the native 105mm macro. For live pseudo-macro subjects like amphibians, butterflies, dragonflies, some small snakes and the like that larger working distance is a very good thing but for pure macro magnification on static or very cooperative subjects you'd need a roughly 230 mm long bellows to get the 300mm lens to focus as close as the 105mm macro with its native 1:1 macro ratio and that's more of a studio solution and not very practical in the field. You'd also likely run into image quality problems if you tried that much extension as the lens was never designed to be focused that close.

Realistically I use tubes on telephoto lenses but then it's not a question of macro ratios but just reducing relatively long MFD to something better for the situation. I've often used a 36mm macro tube on my 600mm f/4 E-FL when working small birds from blinds or otherwise at very close distances that would otherwise be too close for that lens. I've also used tubes on the 300mm for pseudo-macro subjects like those described above, often with a 1.4x TC which doesn't shorten the MFD but does increase the effective focal length without changing MFD which is another way to increase magnification.

FWIW, the 100-400mm Z lens focuses very close to yield a 0.38x magnification ratio (roughly 1:2.6 so something 2.6 times the width and height of your sensor would completely fill the frame) which is pretty good for a lot of live subjects though not nearly a 1:1 macro lens which is great for the smaller subjects.... if you can get close to them.

But getting back to the thread title, an extension tube could definitely be used with the Z 100-400mm lens and help improve its already good close focusing distance. I don't know at which focal length the 0.38x macro ratio is defined but for the sake of discussion if you can achieve that at 400mm then adding say a 36mm tube would increase its macro ratio to roughly 0.47. If the lens is spec'd for its 0.38x at 300mm then add a 36mm tube and you'd be roughly 0.5x or 1:2 macro ratio.

The caveat posted above about focus breathing and whether the 100-400mm lens is true to focal length at MFD still applies so those numbers above are just estimates.
 
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