Stevie n
Well-known member
Is under exposing the solution and if so by how much?
White Fur, White Feathers, Anything White what is the best solution to burned out whites?
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I wouldn't say 'under exposure' is the answer, but some negative exposure compensation that yields acceptable exposure is one good answer. Another approach would be metering some mid tones in the same light and shooting in manual exposure mode until the light changes.
But if you're shooting in an automated exposure mode (including Manual Mode/Auto ISO) then dialing in some negative exposure compensation is one way to go and what I often do. How much negative exposure comp you dial in depends on how large the white areas of the bird are in the overall frame and the tone of the background. The larger the bird is in the frame the less negative exposure comp you'll want to the point where if the bird or other white subject fills the entire frame you'd actually want positive exposure compensation to keep the brights bright.
IOW, there's no simple answer but generally speaking if I have birds or other subjects with bright white areas against a dark background and the subject (or white areas) are small in the frame I might dial in a stop or two of negative exposure compensation. If the subject (or white areas) takes up more than a third of the frame area I might only dial in a third to two thirds stop of negative exposure compensation. And if the bright areas take up more than half the frame I won't dial in any exposure compensation or even dial in positive exposure compensation if the background is also a bright tone.
Arthur Morris used to sell a clever glossy fold out guide outlining exposure compensation for birds under different lighting and background vs subject tones. This was back in the film days before we had instant histograms in our cameras and though it was a very good guide we have tools today that make it simpler. These days it's pretty easy to take a shot or two and check your histogram and dial in enough negative or positive exposure compensation to avoid clipping your whites or blacks as shown on the histogram. Alternatively, if clipping highlights is your challenge then check your blinkies and dial in just enough negative exposure comp to stop the blinkies knowing that raw files give a bit more exposure latitude and a little more room for highlight recovery in post than the in camera jpeg used to produce those blinkies and histogram assuming you're shooting raw.
There is no simple answer, though if the light is steady but backgrounds change a lot (e.g. panning on a flying bird past bright sky and then dark backgrounds) one easy way is to shoot in full manual mode after first metering on a mid tone area like green grass, fix your exposure and start shooting until the light changes. It's still a very good idea to check your first set of captures of any subjects with bright white to make sure you're not clipping highlights based on the histogram or blinkies. But fixing the exposure against a mid tone in the same light as your subjects eliminates problems with changing backgrounds, changing subject size and their impact on metering and automated exposure modes. Just keep an eye on the light and if it's changing then go through the mid tone metering again. This method doesn't work very well on days where clouds roll across the sky creating rapidly changing light levels.
Bottom line, no slam dunk easy answer like 'dial in exactly 1 stop of negative exposure comp for all white birds' as it really depends on the bird, the size in frame and the background when relying on automatic exposure modes. And relies on steady light levels and your subject being in the same light as what you used for mid tone metering in full manual exposure mode. So like many things.... it depends
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Yeah what Dave said, he pretty much covered all the bases.
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pochito
Active member
I usually try to spot meter these whites. This should give me the values for middle gray.
Then I add two or three stops to this, putting the whites in "White with detail"
I use this as long as the light doesn't change.
Something similar as previsualizing the whites in Zone VII or VIII
And I check the blinkies. Just in case
Then I add two or three stops to this, putting the whites in "White with detail"
I use this as long as the light doesn't change.
Something similar as previsualizing the whites in Zone VII or VIII
And I check the blinkies. Just in case
Warren D
Well-known member
Basically what Dave said. Experience is the best teacher. Over time if you shoot the same subject matter you'll get better at the amount of exp comp to apply in a given situation. Technology is very good these days but should not replace what's 3" behind the viewfinder.
Very well said.I wouldn't say 'under exposure' is the answer, but some negative exposure compensation is one good answer. Another approach would be metering some mid tones in the same light and shooting in manual exposure mode until the light changes.
But if you're shooting in an automated exposure mode (including Manual Mode/Auto ISO) then dialing in some negative exposure compensation is one way to go and what I often do. How much negative exposure comp you dial in depends on how large the white areas of the bird are in the overall frame and the tone of the background. The larger the bird is in the frame the less negative exposure comp you'll want to the point where if the bird or other white subject fills the entire frame you'd actually want positive exposure compensation to keep the brights bright.
IOW, there's no simple answer but generally speaking if I have birds or other subjects with bright white areas against a dark background and the subject (or white areas) are small in the frame I might dial in a stop or two of negative exposure compensation. If the subject (or white areas) takes up more than a third of the frame area I might only dial in a third to two thirds stop of negative exposure compensation. And if the bright areas take up more than half the frame I won't dial in any exposure compensation or even dial in positive exposure compensation if the background is also a bright tone.
Arthur Morris used to sell a clever glossy fold out guide outlining exposure compensation for birds under different lighting and background vs subject tones. This was back in the film days before we had histograms and though it was a very good guide we have tools today that make it simpler. These days it's pretty easy to take a shot or two and check your histogram and dial in enough negative or positive exposure compensation to avoid clipping your whites or blacks as shown on the histogram. Alternatively, if clipping highlights is your challenge then check your blinkies and dial in just enough negative exposure comp to stop the blinkies knowing that raw files give a bit more exposure latitude and a little more room for highlight recovery in post than the in camera jpeg used to produce those blinkies and histogram assuming you're shooting raw.
There is no simple answer, though if the light is steady but backgrounds change a lot (e.g. panning on a flying bird past bright sky and then dark backgrounds) one easy way is to shoot in full manual mode after first metering on a mid tone area like green grass, fix your exposure and start shooting until the light changes. It's still a very good idea to check your first set of captures of any subjects with bright white to make sure you're not clipping highlights based on the histogram or blinkies. But fixing the exposure against a mid tone in the same light as your subjects eliminates problems with changing backgrounds, changing subject size and their impact on metering and automated exposure modes. Just keep an eye on the light and if it's changing then go through the mid tone metering again. This method doesn't work very well on days where clouds roll across the sky creating rapidly changing light levels.
Bottom line, no slam dunk easy answer like 'dial in exactly 1 stop of negative exposure comp for all white birds' as it really depends on the bird, the size in frame and the background when relying on automatic exposure modes. And relies on steady light levels and your subject being in the same light as what you used for mid tone metering in full manual exposure mode. So like many things.... it depends
Stevie n
Well-known member
When in manual if I dial in -0.7 compensation or just under expose -0.7 on the metre in view finder is there a difference?
When you use an automated exposure mode, exposure compensation will work, but you always are tweaking exposure depending on the size of the bird in the frame. This applies to Aperture or Shutter priority, but also to Auto ISO.
If you are comfortable using Manual exposure, you have an alternative. This works if the light is relatively constant. The simple way is you take a photo of the white bird and then adjust your exposure just to the point where blinking highlights are almost eliminated. You can usually recover a small amount of blown highlights.
You can also spot meter a white bird and then add two stops. If you have a bird in the sun, spot meter the brightest part of the bird and the camera will expose for approximately a neutral tone. Add two stops by dropping shutter speed, increasing ISO, or adjusting aperture, and you will be pretty close. Take a test shot to confirm and you should have minimal blinkies and a correct exposure.
Be sure you aware of the role of your Picture Control selection. Standard and Vivid settings are going to increase contrast - which makes your whites brighter. You can pull back to a Neutral or even a Flat exposure to start your post processing and eliminate some of the blown highlights. You can also dial in negative contrast, negative clarity, or similar techniques to reduce overexposed highlights or blacks that are too dark.
You might think about how to increase contrast and texture in white subjects. I want to see feather detail, and that can be hard with a white subject. You can reduce exposure in post and then brighten the whites while dropping the highlights to expand the dynamic range of your white areas. This is best done locally.
If you are comfortable using Manual exposure, you have an alternative. This works if the light is relatively constant. The simple way is you take a photo of the white bird and then adjust your exposure just to the point where blinking highlights are almost eliminated. You can usually recover a small amount of blown highlights.
You can also spot meter a white bird and then add two stops. If you have a bird in the sun, spot meter the brightest part of the bird and the camera will expose for approximately a neutral tone. Add two stops by dropping shutter speed, increasing ISO, or adjusting aperture, and you will be pretty close. Take a test shot to confirm and you should have minimal blinkies and a correct exposure.
Be sure you aware of the role of your Picture Control selection. Standard and Vivid settings are going to increase contrast - which makes your whites brighter. You can pull back to a Neutral or even a Flat exposure to start your post processing and eliminate some of the blown highlights. You can also dial in negative contrast, negative clarity, or similar techniques to reduce overexposed highlights or blacks that are too dark.
You might think about how to increase contrast and texture in white subjects. I want to see feather detail, and that can be hard with a white subject. You can reduce exposure in post and then brighten the whites while dropping the highlights to expand the dynamic range of your white areas. This is best done locally.
Dialing in exposure compensation when in full manual mode (i.e. Fixed ISO) will impact the exposure metering but not the actual image unless you change one of the exposure related settings.
Basically that's what exposure compensation does in any mode, it adds a positive or negative offset to how the meter reads. So if you're shooting in full manual mode and dial in -0.7 stops of exposure compensation the meter readings change by +0.7 stops. IOW, with that negative exposure comp dialed in the zero point on the meter is shifted up the same amount so what the meter displays as a neutral (centered) meter reading is appropriate for a -0.7 stop exposure.
So if you set up your camera in manual mode and select: shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings and then dial in -0.7 stops of exposure compensation nothing will change in your exposure as all three setting choices have been made. But if you then glance at your meter and see it's no longer centered and adjust one or more of the exposure settings to re-center the meter then yeah you've changed your exposure and your image will get darker by 0.7 stops relative to the original metering.
So running full manual mode and choosing settings that give you a meter reading of -0.7 stops is the same as running full manual mode, dialing in -0.7 stops of exposure compensation and then choosing settings that center the exposure meter seen in the viewfinder. FWIW, when I run full manual mode I don't use exposure compensation and just look at the meter to see how far I've pushed the exposure up or down depending on the tones in the scene.
Stevie n
Well-known member
Thank you Dave i think that's the way to go because it eliminates forgetting that darn exposure meter re-zeroing Thank you all for your very useful input.
Thank you all for your very useful input.
Just keep an eye on changing light levels if you shoot in full manual mode...Thank you Dave i think that's the way to go because it eliminates forgetting that darn exposure meter re-zeroing
But in some ways, shooting fully manual mode and keeping an eye on the camera's meter can be the simplest approach. If you want the overall scene in the viewfinder to be darker than midtone then the meter should read below center, if you want the overall scene brighter than midtone then the meter should read above center. And if you do that and some highlights blow out then change settings to make the meter read even further below center.
Would highlight-weighted metering mode help?
If you get home and discover you have some small blown out areas, you can always cut/paste over those areas from another part of the image. I did this on my post of a Sandhill Crane portrait. Here is the original and the edited version. I tried to clone the blown area but as the detail came in, so did a bluish color.
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Good info and explanation, Dave!
This thread has sent me running back to Steve’s book on auto exposurre. But one question. If I’m running in manual mode with a floating ISO and need to keep my shutter and f stop constant. But need to add some exposure compensation, can I get that result by pressing the ISO button and adjusting ISO up or down, according to my needs, and watch the exposure meter, or am I just lost in the dark?
You don't have to do what you just described; EC changes the ISO (if auto ISO is selected) until it reaches whatever max ISO you have set ... it will not set an ISO higher than that.
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Calson
Well-known member
The other approach is to photograph such subjects earlier or later in the day or on an overcase day when the dynamic range is much less.
Water or sand can be a great reflector and add light to the birds to make them even easier to overexpose. This reflected light will also be much less when shooting early or late in the day.
Water or sand can be a great reflector and add light to the birds to make them even easier to overexpose. This reflected light will also be much less when shooting early or late in the day.
You're looking at the problem incorrectly. You would be exposing for the part of the picture that is important. If the BIF is properly exposed, who cares how bright the sky is. On the other hand, if you want the sky to be properly exposed - the bird will probably be under exposed ... Your Choice.