Z8 vs Z9 firmware divergence going forward?

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MarkG

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I know that some of this has been discussed before, but I am considering a used Z8 immediately after (or IF) they release pre-capture RAW.

Z9 is simply too large/heavy for me. I'm a bit concerned that Nikon will be "dialing down" Z8 with respect to Z9.

Z9 already has 4.10 with improved Bird AF, Z8 does not have an equivalent and it's not guaranteed it ever will.

Does it seem likely that Nikon will position Z9 higher with better FW, more features, more frequent updates etc.? Or, will it get the same features, only later?
 
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MarkG said:
I know that some of this has been discussed before, but I am considering a used Z8 immediately after (or IF) they release pre-capture RAW.

Z9 is simply too large/heavy for me. I'm a bit concerned that Nikon will be "dialing down" Z8 with respect to Z9.

Z9 already has 4.10 with improved Bird AF, Z8 does not have an equivalent and it's not guaranteed it ever will.

Does it seem likely that Nikon will position Z9 higher with better FW, more features, more frequent updates etc.? Or, will it get the same features, only later?
Click to expand...

In addition to marketing considerations, there are three important hardware differences that may limit some features on the 8: storage, battery and heat dissipation. My guess is that the 9 can handle more data and faster rates, especially when shooting video.
 
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I believe Nikon has said it will bring the Z9’s bird ID AF subject detection to the Z8 sometime in the first half of 2024. There are other differences too. (And there are a few things the Z8 has that the Z9 does not.).

As someone who uses both a Z9 and a Z8, I’d love to see the firmware kept as similar as possible, understanding there are physical differences that prevent 100% similarity.
 
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MarkG said:
I know that some of this has been discussed before, but I am considering a used Z8 immediately after (or IF) they release pre-capture RAW.

Z9 is simply too large/heavy for me. I'm a bit concerned that Nikon will be "dialing down" Z8 with respect to Z9.

Z9 already has 4.10 with improved Bird AF, Z8 does not have an equivalent and it's not guaranteed it ever will.

Does it seem likely that Nikon will position Z9 higher with better FW, more features, more frequent updates etc.? Or, will it get the same features, only later?
Click to expand...
Honestly, the z8/9 are some of the best cameras out there, even if the 8 doesn't get all the features.

Don't buy cameras based on what could be, buy them based on what you know they have now.
 
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MarkG said:
Z9 already has 4.10 with improved Bird AF, Z8 does not have an equivalent and it's not guaranteed it ever will.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Many of the Z9 v4.1 firmware release articles specifically cited Nikon as saying they'll introduce a dedicated bird AF subject detection mode to the Z8 in 2024 and it's already in the Zf. Here's one reference to that: https://www.dpreview.com/news/59185...ved-birding-performance-z8-users-have-to-wait

The fact that Nikon has included a dedicated Bird subject detection mode in the less expensive Zf makes it hard to believe they wouldn't include it in a Z8 update.

MarkG said:
Does it seem likely that Nikon will position Z9 higher with better FW, more features, more frequent updates etc.? Or, will it get the same features, only later?
Click to expand...
I suspect it will get many if not most of the Z9 features eventually though of course not those limited by hardware design like built in GPS, dual CFE slots, thermal issues, battery life and the like.
 
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I wouldn't worry too much about the divergence issue and suspect that Nikon will likely tweak where they can. As long as the Z8 shares in the AF improvements, it's a home run in my book even if the body can't (or Nikon won't) add some of the anticipated other features.
 
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Doubtful. Nikon will introduce something's the Z9 will get bit certainly not all. I feel Nikon is going to have to differentiate the 2 to keep the Z9 sales going and also there is a reason one is called The flagship.

There is heat issues even in stills mode with the Z8. This would lead me to believe 30fps raw and PreCapture Raw are 2 things not likely to be added to the Z8.

I also don't understand how people expect the Z8 to get the same updates and features as the flashing Z9. Just doesn't make and sense unless these people are ones that bought a Z8 expecting the updates
 
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I think people talking about the two cameras tend to underestimate the physical limitations imposed by a smaller body. Even the common processor does not mean they are able to process at the same speed. Nikon has almost always gotten faster operation in flagship batteries with the more powerful battery. It's not just a matter of storage capacity - the EN-EL18 batteries have higher output which translates into faster focus, faster image processing, faster write speed, etc. If they design to the limits of the Z9, it's beyond the capability of Z8 hardware.

It's one thing to write software, but another thing altogether to make sure the software operates within the capacity of the hardware without overheating or causing tripping over other concurrent operations. If more processing power is required for advanced focus, what are the implications on image processing and write speed. Does the extra processing for focus mean image processing takes longer and generates even more heat? Those kinds of issues require developers and engineers to work very closely - and complicate the testing. They have to know it performs as required - not test it and see if it breaks something. Rather than pushing the limits with lots of new features via software, Nikon likely designs software enhancements within known frameworks or limitations around processor speed, data movement, etc.

Keep in mind many enhancements impact more than one aspect of hardware - frame rate impacts AF speed, processor speed, cache size and speed, compression, file size, bus speed for the memory card/cards, heat generation, heat shedding, etc. Any of these aspects may work fine in unit testing, but fail when you operate at 30 or 60 fps and concurrently generate larger files. If the person working on AF performance uses more processor capacity for more complicated AF subject recognition, it may limit the processor speed used for processing the file or cause overheating.
 
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MarkG said:
I know that some of this has been discussed before, but I am considering a used Z8 immediately after (or IF) they release pre-capture RAW.

Z9 is simply too large/heavy for me. I'm a bit concerned that Nikon will be "dialing down" Z8 with respect to Z9.

Z9 already has 4.10 with improved Bird AF, Z8 does not have an equivalent and it's not guaranteed it ever will.

Does it seem likely that Nikon will position Z9 higher with better FW, more features, more frequent updates etc.? Or, will it get the same features, only later?
Click to expand...
I think the firmware will eventually merge in capabilities except for things that the hardware of the Z9 provides…and that the Z9 will continue to be the flagship but the Z8 will be the almost as good little brother (and actually just as good for most scenarios and situations).
 
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I have been using the z8 since release exclusively for birds and birds in flight. Mostly between 15-20 fps and there are no buffer problems when shooting raw using the fast cf express cards. I too have read that the upgrade for birds Subject detection is coming. This was an upgrade from my D500 and I'm loving it for wildlife. I held off for the z8 because for me the price/features was not worth the price difference. Battery life is not a problem when using power economy techniques discussed by Steve Perry.
 

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Date the camera marry the glass.

The Z9 is overdue for a update physically, the Z8 is in my mind still a interim stop gap model and a D850 conversion model.

The 24mp power house speed demon coming from Nikon to compete with ? the A9 III ? is going to be interesting i hear.

Like phones more frequent models generates sales.

The hopeful ZF in 45 or more pixels will be interesting its the Z7II replacement i assume ?

The current ZF is the Z6II replacement its fair to assume.

Only Nikon knows how much head room they have in the Z8, Z9, the market will dictate what comes next.


Only an opinion
 
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DRwyoming said:
I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Many of the Z9 v4.1 firmware release articles specifically cited Nikon as saying they'll introduce a dedicated bird AF subject detection mode to the Z8 in 2024 and it's already in the Zf.
Click to expand...
FYI, Bird subject detection is not available in the firmware v1.1 on the Zf. DP Review was wrong about that.
 
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O said:
Date the camera marry the glass.

The Z9 is overdue for a update physically, the Z8 is in my mind still a interim stop gap model and a D850 conversion model.

The 24mp power house speed demon coming from Nikon to compete with ? the A9 III ? is going to be interesting i hear.

Like phones more frequent models generates sales.

The hopeful ZF in 45 or more pixels will be interesting its the Z7II replacement i assume ?

The current ZF is the Z6II replacement its fair to assume.

Only Nikon knows how much head room they have in the Z8, Z9, the market will dictate what comes next.


Only an opinion
Click to expand...
I agree with almost everything you say above except for the Zf being a Z6II replacement. There are too many functionality differences and photographers will still want the Z6 format so I think theres still room for Z6III even if internals are the same between. Some even think the 24MP powerhouse may even be the Z6III, but powerhouse and Z6/Z7 don't really align so that would be a bit of a surprise. But Nikon is running out of Zx numbers so not sure what they're going to do.

All that said - marry the glass is right, the bodies come and go but glass remains pretty constant with some surprises here and there.
 
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O said:
The 24mp power house speed demon coming from Nikon to compete with ? the A9 III ? is going to be interesting i hear.

Like phones more frequent models generates sales.

The hopeful ZF in 45 or more pixels will be interesting its the Z7II replacement i assume ? The current ZF is the Z6II replacement its fair to assume.
Click to expand...
The ZF is far from the kind of camera you would have by upgrading the Z7ii or Z6ii. It's a niche camera to a retro market. Some of the technology is new, but the configuration, controls, and body style does not fit Nikon's normal product line. The future camera(s) are still expected in 2024.

Nikon has a schedule for updates. They tend to follow major updates with minor updates, then come back with a major update in the next iteration. Things like the EXPEED Processor and major technical advances alternate generations. But there is a fine line for camera companies. They don't want to have to continue to support too many cameras aimed at the same customer profile.

The phone comparison is good, but the volumes and price points are very different. Smartphones are consumer products with some niche items for prosumers or professionals. The volumes are 2000 times the number of cameras sold - and that's including point and shoot cameras. Smartphone sales in units are much higher, so the constant iteration is also part of manufacturing for large volumes.
 
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