Z9 (and now Z8) Bird AF + 800PF - a revelation

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Ben C

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I just returned from a long weekend in Panama for a quick nature fix and bird photography. I've had the 800PF since last summer but hadn't had the opportunity to do any bird photography since Nikon released the latest Z9 firmware with the bird-specific subject detection. Prior to that, my experience in using my Z9 (and Z8) for shooting birds had been a bit frustrating. Specifically, shooting warblers and other small songbirds in trees, bushes and other busy backgrounds would often result in the camera being unable to acquire focus without manual assistance, causing me to miss a LOT of shots. Steve and others have stated that this is in part a characteristic of the phase detect type of AF native to mirrorless cameras versus contrast detection, although I don't remember the specifics.

Before leaving for my trip I actually remembered to update the firmware on my cameras, and on my flight down to Panama I spent some quality time with Steve's books to optimize my camera setup for the latest AF tweaks to address past frustrations, and to drill into my brain the strengths and weaknesses of the various AF modes. I also enabled the new bird AF mode, of course. I was confident I would be able to handle the camera better but I was still wary of how well the AF would work with small birds in dense vegetation in a dark rainforest.

I am happy to report that whatever Nikon did, whether it was the bird-specific subject detection mode specifically, some of the other less specific AF enhancements, or more likely the combination thereof, the focusing capability of my Z9+800PF combo on this trip was an absolute revelation. I was able to nail focus on the eye of small tanagers and flycatchers from 30 meters or more in dense, dark vegetation with very few whiffs. Of course it wasn't perfect and there were shots I missed, but not because the lens would hunt focus. The biggest issue was just being able to locate the bird in frame sometimes with such a narrow angle of view. The fact that I was able to get so many shots in sharp focus from such a distance, while mostly handholding an 800mm lens, sometimes even in DX mode, was just amazing to me. It made the trip FUN rather than frustrating. The biggest problem now is going to be culling and processing thousands of shots when so many are sharp. :cool:

It's great to see that Nikon just added bird AF to the Z8 and will be updating that camera shortly so it matches my Z9's performance. I'm really excited to use this kit even more as the spring migration passes through the upper Texas coast here in a couple months. Kudos to Nikon for constantly improving these cameras in such meaningful ways, and for releasing a "relatively" affordable super telephoto lens like the 800PF and making it hand-holdable. We are truly in a golden age for wildlife photography and I am here for it!
 
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Glad to hear about your positive experience. Wondered if you can share what focus modes you found most useful for grabbing focus on the birds? And under which conditions (ie. birds in heavy brush, etc).
 
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Thanks. I primarily used the Wide Area AF mode. Whether I used large, small or a custom size depended on the size of the subject in frame and the background. I tended to use large when the shot was cleaner but a smaller one when there were lots of twigs or leaves covering portions of the bird as those would definitely confuse the AF system, although again, I was quite impressed at how much more frequently the system ignored those and found the eye than it used to. I would also use the 3D AF mode on occasion but I rarely used others. Seems like the other modes (Dynamic and Auto Area AF) are better for BIF but I was mostly shooting small to medium-sized songbirds so I didn't do any BIF work.

Also, on the rare occasion when I was shooting something other than a bird, such as when we came across some Geoffrey's Tamarins or a sloth, it definitely made a difference to switch from Bird to Auto Subject Detection. At first I was wondering why it all of a sudden wasn't focusing properly till I remembered I needed to switch back. I guess all eyes are not created equal!

One more observation - I also have an OM-1 which I carried with me in case I ran into a subject that was too close for the 800 (which definitely happens given the long MFD of the PF lens). Previously, the OM-1 just focused better and faster than my Z8-Z9, but finally my Z9 has surpassed the OM-1 and I presume the Z8 has as well. Still, the OM-1 is a great camera in its own right.
 
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Ben C said:
I just returned from a long weekend in Panama for a quick nature fix and bird photography. I've had the 800PF since last summer but hadn't had the opportunity to do any bird photography since Nikon released the latest Z9 firmware with the bird-specific subject detection. Prior to that, my experience in using my Z9 (and Z8) for shooting birds had been a bit frustrating. Specifically, shooting warblers and other small songbirds in trees, bushes and other busy backgrounds would often result in the camera being unable to acquire focus without manual assistance, causing me to miss a LOT of shots. Steve and others have stated that this is in part a characteristic of the phase detect type of AF native to mirrorless cameras versus contrast detection, although I don't remember the specifics.

Before leaving for my trip I actually remembered to update the firmware on my cameras, and on my flight down to Panama I spent some quality time with Steve's books to optimize my camera setup for the latest AF tweaks to address past frustrations, and to drill into my brain the strengths and weaknesses of the various AF modes. I also enabled the new bird AF mode, of course. I was confident I would be able to handle the camera better but I was still wary of how well the AF would work with small birds in dense vegetation in a dark rainforest.

I am happy to report that whatever Nikon did, whether it was the bird-specific subject detection mode specifically, some of the other less specific AF enhancements, or more likely the combination thereof, the focusing capability of my Z9+800PF combo on this trip was an absolute revelation. I was able to nail focus on the eye of small tanagers and flycatchers from 30 meters or more in dense, dark vegetation with very few whiffs. Of course it wasn't perfect and there were shots I missed, but not because the lens would hunt focus. The biggest issue was just being able to locate the bird in frame sometimes with such a narrow angle of view. The fact that I was able to get so many shots in sharp focus from such a distance, while mostly handholding an 800mm lens, sometimes even in DX mode, was just amazing to me. It made the trip FUN rather than frustrating. The biggest problem now is going to be culling and processing thousands of shots when so many are sharp. :cool:

It's great to see that Nikon just added bird AF to the Z8 and will be updating that camera shortly so it matches my Z9's performance. I'm really excited to use this kit even more as the spring migration passes through the upper Texas coast here in a couple months. Kudos to Nikon for constantly improving these cameras in such meaningful ways, and for releasing a "relatively" affordable super telephoto lens like the 800PF and making it hand-holdable. We are truly in a golden age for wildlife photography and I am here for it!
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My experience with the 800PF resembles yours exactly, it has been a challenge to use on small birds in brushy/branchy/leafy scenes, often times just completely missing even if the bird was under the AF point but slightly OOF. More so noticed it at closer to MFD. Ended up having to be very careful and deliberate when using the lens.

Updated my Z8 this morning with FW2.0, the first lens I tried out was the 800, and the difference in AF capability was immediately noticeable. I want to get some more time with it just to make sure, but if it works like we hope, I think it’ll be seeing a lot more use than it has recently.
 
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Sometimes things move so fast in camera development we lose perspective.

The bird AF function was not released for the Z9 until October 4, 2023. That was just four months ago. Today it is added to the Z8.

From reading these and other forums from Z8 users the wait for bird subject detect must have felt more like four years than four months.

I already had the Z9 when version 4.10 came out and I upgraded immediately. At the time my longest lens was the 400mm f4.5.

The 600mm f6.3 pf had not hit the market yet, I was one of the early purchasers and I got mine in early November. From reading on these pages it seems like the 600mm pf has been available for three years instead of three months.

The 800mm pf itself is ancient by comparison. It was announced in April, 2022 which is actually less than two years ago. From reports waiting lists were long and it took a long time before people actually got theirs.

So no one has had the opportunity to use the 800mm in combination with the bird af detection for more than four months. Mostly winter months.

By the fall of 2023 the 800mm pf was readily available on the used market. From my understanding some photographers had purchased the z 800mm pf while waiting to get the 600mm f4 tc vr superlens. There is no reason to own both of these lenses and their 800mm pf became available used.

I got my (used) copy of the Z 800mm pf just before Christmas 2023. That is less than two months ago.

I am retired and have lots of time to spend on photography. I live in the Pacific Northwest and winter is a great time to photograph birds. They winter here and the leaves are off the trees so they can't hide.

I have spent a lot of time photographing birds since Christmas 2023. I am out every chance I get and I have filled cards.

The 800mm PF on the Z9 (and now the Z8) with bird AF is truly a magical combination. It is about all I use these days. I have shot in the most difficult conditions. Each time I get things in post I find amazing results.

Try it you will like it.
 
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Ben C said:
I just returned from a long weekend in Panama for a quick nature fix and bird photography. I've had the 800PF since last summer but hadn't had the opportunity to do any bird photography since Nikon released the latest Z9 firmware with the bird-specific subject detection. Prior to that, my experience in using my Z9 (and Z8) for shooting birds had been a bit frustrating. Specifically, shooting warblers and other small songbirds in trees, bushes and other busy backgrounds would often result in the camera being unable to acquire focus without manual assistance, causing me to miss a LOT of shots. Steve and others have stated that this is in part a characteristic of the phase detect type of AF native to mirrorless cameras versus contrast detection, although I don't remember the specifics.

Before leaving for my trip I actually remembered to update the firmware on my cameras, and on my flight down to Panama I spent some quality time with Steve's books to optimize my camera setup for the latest AF tweaks to address past frustrations, and to drill into my brain the strengths and weaknesses of the various AF modes. I also enabled the new bird AF mode, of course. I was confident I would be able to handle the camera better but I was still wary of how well the AF would work with small birds in dense vegetation in a dark rainforest.

I am happy to report that whatever Nikon did, whether it was the bird-specific subject detection mode specifically, some of the other less specific AF enhancements, or more likely the combination thereof, the focusing capability of my Z9+800PF combo on this trip was an absolute revelation. I was able to nail focus on the eye of small tanagers and flycatchers from 30 meters or more in dense, dark vegetation with very few whiffs. Of course it wasn't perfect and there were shots I missed, but not because the lens would hunt focus. The biggest issue was just being able to locate the bird in frame sometimes with such a narrow angle of view. The fact that I was able to get so many shots in sharp focus from such a distance, while mostly handholding an 800mm lens, sometimes even in DX mode, was just amazing to me. It made the trip FUN rather than frustrating. The biggest problem now is going to be culling and processing thousands of shots when so many are sharp. :cool:

It's great to see that Nikon just added bird AF to the Z8 and will be updating that camera shortly so it matches my Z9's performance. I'm really excited to use this kit even more as the spring migration passes through the upper Texas coast here in a couple months. Kudos to Nikon for constantly improving these cameras in such meaningful ways, and for releasing a "relatively" affordable super telephoto lens like the 800PF and making it hand-holdable. We are truly in a golden age for wildlife photography and I am here for it!
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Excellent comments. One of the things that stands out to me is the benefit of spending quality time with Steve's materials and setting up your camera. Being completely familiar with the various AF modes and the use case for each no doubt helped a lot. I also find that practice makes a big difference - several days or more photographing birds much of the day helps a lot to work on technique, resolve issues, and make subject specific adjustments. A tiny field of view such as with an 800mm lens or the same lens in DX mode takes some practice, but with a day or so of practice it becomes second nature.
 
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The full capabilities of the 800mm PF requires either a Z9 or Z8 camera as part of the investment but the end results are exceptional. As with the OP, I have gotten images with this combination that would have been impossible with a DSLR. The smaller the subject the more invaluable the AF eye detection is in producing usable results.

Being able to shoot free of a tripod and gimbal head is also a key aspect of getting more shots than would be possible with a heavier lens that is far more difficult to use hand held. The 800mm PF provides me with the capabilities of the 600mm f/4 TC lens with a weight savings of 2 full pounds (and the weight of a tripod and gimbal head).
 
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Just a hint that I have found helpful with regard to settings for eye tracking. I start with the largest possible custom autofocus area to lock onto a perched birds eye. I use back button AF, and when I push AF on, this is the setting used. Once the eye is found, I change to 3D tracking. I have set on the DISP button to 3D area with subject detection on. As the DISP button is right next to the AF on button, it takes an instant to make this change. The largest AF area seems to find the eye better than 3D, but when the bird takes off, 3D seems to track the eye better. I hope this is clear. Give it a try!
 
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I have nothing more to add than the author of this thread. The Nikon Z8 in the 800mm set with the new firmware is simply amazing. There is no longer any need to use zoned rectangles to focus on the bird. I stopped using it altogether. Focusing and AF precision are incomparable to the version with firmware 1.1.
 
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MrFotoFool said:
It's good for other wildlife too, not just birds. If you like wild cats as I do, here is a video from Thomas Heaton where he uses Z8 and 800PF to photograph Pallas' cats in Mongolia.
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That was a simply inspiring video, albeit a bid plodding and in need of some tightening up of some of the sequences. Not only was it beyond cool (freezing cold actually) but I was amazed that the gear performed so well under the conditions. How does one follow this video up other than the other extreme tracking a sand cat?
 
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ajrmd said:
That was a simply inspiring video, albeit a bid plodding and in need of some tightening up of some of the sequences. Not only was it beyond cool (freezing cold actually) but I was amazed that the gear performed so well under the conditions. How does one follow this video up other than the other extreme tracking a sand cat?
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He normally does landscape stuff, and his style is something you have to adjust to. I definitely think these videos were not as good as his normal ones though (though I liked the subject matter more)
 
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