105mm portrait lens vs. 500mm tele: will you see the difference?

[ElenaH]

@RichF , actually I shoot also a lion with 105mm from a safari vehicle. Animals come close to cars. The other point is that you can shoot the animal in environment with 105mm, it must not be always a portrait or close-up with a telephoto lens.

 

[ElenaH]

@curtf , thank you for the try! (the solution will come later)

 

[RichF]

@RichF , actually I shoot also a lion with 105mm from a safari vehicle. Animals come close to cars. The other point is that you can shoot the animal in environment with 105mm, it must not be always a portrait or close-up with a telephoto lens.

Yes I have done it also but not on foot

 

[bleirer]

This video demonstrates the question raised with just enough science. The title doesn't reflect what it is about. It is really about how distance from subject is what impacts perspective and compression, not focal length per se. If you don't move focal length only changes the scale just like cropping in post would, but moving changes perspective no matter what focal length is used. You have to watch to the end for the part about how relative size in the frame changes with distance but not linearly. As the distance changes the size of the object in the frame gets smaller by 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 and so on. So up close the difference between 1/2 and 1/3 is big, but far away the difference between 1/4 and 1/5 is not as big. The video shows a nice chart near the end.

 

[ElenaH]

@bleirer , that you for that very interesting link. So, yes, the animal taken with 600mm is only a "crop" of a big picture and we are staying far away. To be able to use 105mm we need to come closer.
Distortion is most important difference in those pictures!

 

[John Woodworth]

...
@John Woodworth , what are you writing about is also no-go. But it is a book what are you reading, maybe it was not in reality? I don't know why they did it in the park.. They could have done it in their own garden or what ever...

I'm surprised he revealed this. But there is also a photo of the setup and it was really more of a bush.

Still, a definite no-no.

 

[ElenaH]

I think, the time to tell the answer!
Again many thanks to most brave gentlemen who dared to guess! @Charlie Lasswell , @JaapL , @Woodyg3 and @curtf
The first two pics are taken with 105mm portrait lens and the second two - with 500mm PF. On can see it on distortion: the long lens makes body or face thiner or longer. I often see lions with a long face on my photos
For me the pictures taken with 105mm are also more appealing but ok.. , it can work only for some camping place residents
Here are screenshots from LR:

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

I almost missed DoF with 105mm; the nose fo squirrel is not in DoF anymore... The bokeh is also totally different.
Here is a bird

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

The long neck with 500mm ..

Now I know which lens I need to use to take pictures of myself to look slimmmmmmmm ....
Many thanks to all participants!!

 

[Ken Miracle]

We all know the famous quote of Robeert Capa: „if your photographs aren't good enough you're not close enough“
Well.. the other day I was watching a presentation of David Yarrow in YouTube where he said: „Will you photograph a beautiful woman with the 600mm lens? .. And why do you do it with animals? … go and buy a portrait lens …“
I did.
I loved his photographs. I thought that he was right and sometimes I had a lion or a hyena just beside my vehicle in the dusk and didn’t have the good lens to capture it. 105mm had f1.4.
I took it with me on safari and the first „beautiful woman“ I’ve got in front of my lens was … Guinea Fowl!
Not beautiful? Well...
The Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The other resident of our camping place was a ground squirrel and it was at least definitely a „woman“.
They were very hospitable and agreed to pose for me a bit.

I took one photo of each model with 105mm portrait lens on D500 (DX) and one with 500mm PF on D850 (FX).

The photos actually looked l the same. Yes, it is clear, with 105mm I was closer and with 500mm I stepped back. Was the DoF the same?
I took a full body portrait of ground squirrel with 105mm at f2 and I might be staying about 2m from her. The bird was taken with f4 but I was closer, let’s say 1,5m. The both cases on DX with 105mm give me 3cm of DoF. To have the same DoF with 500/5.6 and FX I must be stepping back to 5m what is very plausible. So, the same (approximately) DoF of the portrait lens and the telephoto lens.

But do you see the difference? Which picture is taken with which lens? Could somebody guess? (I am quite sure that some of you can identify the lens correctly!)

Photo 1. Guinea Fowl.
View attachment 28265

Photo 2. Ground Squirrel.
View attachment 28266

Photo 3. Guinea Fowl.
View attachment 28267

Photo 4. Ground Squirrel.
View attachment 28268

Have you ever tried to photograph the animals with portrait (85-105mm) or longer portrait (135mm) lens?

Great shots and yes I have ... I have use 70-200 f/2.8 and 35-150 Tamron one of my favorites ... but then I have photographed landscapes and still life with a 600 mm f/4 ... so a bit of whatever I have in my hand

 

[Woodyg3]

The difference you are referring to is not distortion, it is perspective. Many people call it distortion because in the case of a shot very close to a subject, it appears distorted because we are not used to viewing a subject from such a short distance.

The way I could tell the difference in the shots, by the way, was due to depth of field and background blur. The difference in perspective between 105mm and 500mm for subject as far away as the animals were will be pretty minimal.

 

[ElenaH]

The difference you are referring to is not distortion, it is perspective

yes, @Woodyg3 , you are right! We are calling it distortion but it is the perspective to call it correctly!

was due to depth of field and background blur

great!! you noticed my miss of DoF! and background blur - for the bird it was tricky as there was not much of background!

 

[DAB250]

David Yarrow Accused of Feeding Fox for Photo, Denies Wrongdoing

Renowned wildlife photographer David Yarrow has found himself at the center of a new controversy this month after another photographer levied claims that

petapixel.com

I'm reading a book by Joe McNally.

He tells of taking a dinosaur model out to a park and chainsawing it into a tree. Then they fled the scene...Actually, it was more like a bush.

Park remains anonymous. Sssshhh...Keep this on the DL.

Not anonymous, it was reported to have taken place in Grand Teton at Colter Bay.

 

[Doug Herr]

I'm reading a book by Joe McNally.

He tells of taking a dinosaur model out to a park and chainsawing it into a tree. Then they fled the scene...Actually, it was more like a bush.

Park remains anonymous. Sssshhh...Keep this on the DL.

He knew it was a violation of park rules and did it anyway. Scum.
search this link for 'chainsaw'

Photography Secrets from One of the World's Top Shooters | CreativePro Network

Excerpted from The Moment It Clicks by Joe McNally. Copyright 2008. Used with permission of Pearson Education, Inc., and New Riders Wing It Sometimes, you just gotta wing it. Got a job to shoot a photo portfolio of the overlarge freshmen NCAA hoopsters for Sports Illustrated. Started conjuring...

creativepro.com

 

[O]

For me i find the best portraiture model lens indoors where possible and especially outdoors is the 300-2.8 VRII at F2.8
I get stunning back ground blur, fantastic shallow DOF, sharp as but natural in appearance not obvious over detailed with amazing compression and colour especially with the D850...........
many of my Pro mates do their model shoots this way in the streets or parks and even indoors.
To each their own, its what works for you.

 

[RugglesZ9]

David Yarrow Accused of Feeding Fox for Photo, Denies Wrongdoing

Renowned wildlife photographer David Yarrow has found himself at the center of a new controversy this month after another photographer levied claims that

petapixel.com

If she'd only had a camera with a silent shutter that shot 20 fps there'd be lots of better evidence.

 

[RugglesZ9]

He knew it was a violation of park rules and did it anyway. Scum.
search this link for 'chainsaw'

Photography Secrets from One of the World's Top Shooters | CreativePro Network

Excerpted from The Moment It Clicks by Joe McNally. Copyright 2008. Used with permission of Pearson Education, Inc., and New Riders Wing It Sometimes, you just gotta wing it. Got a job to shoot a photo portfolio of the overlarge freshmen NCAA hoopsters for Sports Illustrated. Started conjuring...

creativepro.com

That would have been 17 years ago, with a polyurethane model. Note sure "scum" is the phrase I'd use to describe McNally.

 

[Doug Herr]

That would have been 17 years ago, with a polyurethane model. Note sure "scum" is the phrase I'd use to describe McNally.

Chainsawing the vegetation in a National Park and bragging about it is what I'd call scummy.

More recently at Colusa National Wildlife Refuge a colony of Black-crowned Night-Herons abandoned the daytime roost they'd been using for at least 40 years after a few people, in violation of the refuge's rules, just had to get their picture no matter what (McNally's attitude) and got out of their cars to get closer. No photo is more important than the birds' welfare.

 

[Whiskeyman]

... and I don't think it's a good idea to photograph polar bears with a portrait lens...

I know of several people that I'd like to see try it. Unfortunately, neither of them are photographers, that I know of.

And I'm sure there are some that wish I'd do so, as well.

 

[Whiskeyman]

So, nobody tries a guess? You don't feel confident? You told already about those two points in your posts. Don't hesitate, try to identify the lens!

Here are my answers guesses: without viewing them side-by-side on my monitor, and before seeing the posted answers above. Two of four correct, which is what I should expect if I had just flipped a coin to answer.

#1- 500mm

#2- 105mm

#3- 105mm

#4- 500mm

Your post makes a point!

 

[ElenaH]

thank you, @Whiskeyman !

 

[Mdfotognut]

Good point about showing the enviroment.

I just checked David's YT channel and watched his latest video. He sure likes to get up close and personal with the Hippos!
Takes quite a risk, scares a few in the process but gets a couple of really nice photos.

I also checked his website and he has a really nice porfolio, although without many bird photos...

Excellent points & post Tiago. Hippos kill more people than lions & Crocs (animal- not foot, TBClear) I believe I've heard Mr Attenborough say, so as Charlie & Rich mentioned- he just Might have a short career If he shoots them w/the 105!

 

[Mdfotognut]

We all know the famous quote of Robeert Capa: „if your photographs aren't good enough you're not close enough“
Well.. the other day I was watching a presentation of David Yarrow in YouTube where he said: „Will you photograph a beautiful woman with the 600mm lens? .. And why do you do it with animals? … go and buy a portrait lens …“
I did.
I loved his photographs. I thought that he was right and sometimes I had a lion or a hyena just beside my vehicle in the dusk and didn’t have the good lens to capture it. 105mm had f1.4.
I took it with me on safari and the first „beautiful woman“ I’ve got in front of my lens was … Guinea Fowl!
Not beautiful? Well...
The Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The other resident of our camping place was a ground squirrel and it was at least definitely a „woman“.
They were very hospitable and agreed to pose for me a bit.

I took one photo of each model with 105mm portrait lens on D500 (DX) and one with 500mm PF on D850 (FX).

The photos actually looked l the same. Yes, it is clear, with 105mm I was closer and with 500mm I stepped back. Was the DoF the same?
I took a full body portrait of ground squirrel with 105mm at f2 and I might be staying about 2m from her. The bird was taken with f4 but I was closer, let’s say 1,5m. The both cases on DX with 105mm give me 3cm of DoF. To have the same DoF with 500/5.6 and FX I must be stepping back to 5m what is very plausible. So, the same (approximately) DoF of the portrait lens and the telephoto lens.

But do you see the difference? Which picture is taken with which lens? Could somebody guess? (I am quite sure that some of you can identify the lens correctly!)

Photo 1. Guinea Fowl.
View attachment 28265

Photo 2. Ground Squirrel.
View attachment 28266

Photo 3. Guinea Fowl.
View attachment 28267

Photo 4. Ground Squirrel.
View attachment 28268

Have you ever tried to photograph the animals with portrait (85-105mm) or longer portrait (135mm) lens?

Excellent post & pics Elena- very thought provoking and insightful!

 

[ElenaH]

thank you very much, @Mdfotognut ! very appreciated! There is indeed a lot of very interesting stuff beside Sony and Nikon gear talk!

 

[RugglesZ9]

I didn't care for 1 and 2. But I have no clue which is which lens. To me, both looked slightly distorted from reality. If I had to put money on it, I'd say those two are the 500PF.

 

[ElenaH]

@RugglesZ9 , 1 and 2 is 105mm , 3 and 4 is 500mm. There is a picture from LR where the lenses and settings are shown. Thank you for the guess!

 

[MrFotoFool]

Nice comparisons - I like the 105 shots better!

As for David Yarrow, he is not someone most of us can or should emulate. The polar bear was taken from an inflatable boat with a native guide in an area where they knew they could get close to a bear on land. It is a unique situation that he was able to arrange due to his clout, but most of us could never do.

He also sometimes photographs captive animals in special conditions, specifically lions (he was in a cage). Unless you want to try to pass of captive animals as fine art, again not a practice to follow. I am not sure if he discloses they are captive in his print sales (though he shows how he did it in his video so it's not a secret). Art Wolfe, on the other hand, had some deceptive labelling practices that were meant to lead people to believe captive animals were wild (labels such as mountain lion, Arizona) without stating it was a zoo in Arizona.

The thing that really turned me off from David Yarrow though was a shot of a giraffe running into dramatic sunset clouds. The video shows he laid down in the back of an open vehicle and had the driver chase down the giraffe to make it run. Talk about unethical wildlife practices!