John Navitsky
Well-known member
interesting. my old 512gb black drops to like 1 fps when it hits the buffer.
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
The extremely slow performance is similar to what happened when I formatted a card in my D850 and then tested in a Z camera. It had starts and stops as long as 2 seconds with an average write speed of 1.5 fps. Fresh formatting in the camera being used resulted in normal speed. But you have already formatted in the camera being used, so my guess is it needs a deeper formatting which can be provided by Delkin. Just guessing at the solution, but the type of performance you are getting suggests a formatting issue where file structure is not currently optimized for the Z9 camera.Both Dave and I have tickets in with Delkin. I suggest everyone else who sees the problem does the same.
That said, do note that I'm not seeing the SAME performance from my old and new card. The old card drops to like 1 fps when it hits the buffer, the new card seems to be able to maintain 10-15 fps after hitting the buffer and it clears much faster.
There are different levels of formatting. At a very basic level, one just erases the information in the table stating where data is stored so that the space it occupied can be written to again, often referred to as a quick format. Eric is referring to a format which takes that a step farther and is essentially recreating the table instead of just erasing its contents. As to why a new, unused card would require this is difficult to say, but there were a few reported speed issues when people received their Z9 and new Delkin Black cards at the beginning of the year and this is the procedure Delkin recommended and resolved the issue.I don't see how that would help with a card that has never been used before.
I found an article from Delkin Devices dated 7/9/20. In this article they state: "Now that you understand the importance of formatting, another thing to know is the proper way of formatting, specifically only in a camera and not a computer. A memory card can be formatted in a computer, but if it’s trying to be used in a camera, there’s a chance the camera may not be able to read the card’s file structure properly. As each host device’s operating system formats differently from one another, it’s important to only use memory cards that have been formatted in the camera you are planning to use."
They also go on to talk about Deep/Full formatting or Low Level formatting in a computer to fully erase all data on card. A long process. But this would only correct problems arising because of previous use of the card leaving buildup of data from old files. So Delkin only recommends this after extended use of a card.
So I can only conclude that the statements from Delkin, that this card is much faster and allows unlimited buffer, is just not an accurate statement.
I don't see how that would help with a card that has never been used before.
It seems odd that Delkin would ship a card that is wrongly formatted for a Z9 when they are specifically touting Z9 performance - but obviously within the realm of possibility, especially for a new product.why a new, unused card would require this is difficult to say, but there were a few reported speed issues when people received their Z9 and new Delkin Black card
Interesting - I was using my 128gb in my D850 for about 1.5 months before getting the Z9. I did immediately do a format in the Z9 before using it though. John - could this perhaps be your issue? 1fps is much too low...The extremely slow performance is similar to what happened when I formatted a card in my D850 and then tested in a Z camera.
In my test it was specifically BECAUSE the card was formatted in a different camera and the formatting specs were apparently different. If you format in the camera being used, it normally is fine - but not always. I could not explain the technical details for the required file structure in one vs. the other, but the point is Delkin's initial formatting might not be aligned with Nikon's Z9 file structure. It could be a firmware update for the card or just deep formatting with a program from Delkin. It could also be a firmware update, but Nikon is not likely to do that unless there is something longer term happening - especially since the earlier Delkin Black cards were fine.Interesting - I was using my 128gb in my D850 for about 1.5 months before getting the Z9. I did immediately a format in the Z9 before using it though. John - could this perhaps be your issue? 1fps is much too low...
15 fps with a full buffer is pretty remarkable. That's where the fast card really pays off.Ok, for completeness I just did another test - the "simple" test of the 512gb with a lenscap, fixed ISO, MF to see if it performed as advertised under those non-real world conditions (the 128gb did to a bit better in my previous tests). It eeked out a few more frames 83 before switching to 16fps - so a tiny performance improvement, but still does not meet the marketing claims.
Side note: actually, I hadn't realized that I was still getting ~15fps after hitting the buffer with these cards - that's pretty good! I do wish it didn't stutter though, which is distracting - rather it was a steady 15fps, but now I know to ignore it in those rare cases I hit the buffer.
Cheers!
That sounds really weird - the card and camera must not have been communicating properly, or the card was poorly designed to throttle the I/O under severe loading situations. In either case, I'd blame the card, and perhaps a firmware update could fix that, but if it's a bad bus design, then can't be fixed by software/firmware.There were full seconds when I did not get a single frame, and then it resumed with normal variations and stutters. Temporarily clearing the buffer partially did not help and at times the Remaining Frames count was actually increasing even though the camera performed as though the buffer was full.
So it looks like they clarified to say no stops, not a slight drop in fps. Since it seems like it will only drop to 15fps based on other comments, I’m more than ok with the performance. I agree the marketing, or at least original statement, is/was slightly misleading.So Delkin support got back to me with a very generic "see this page" upon which has a note about Z9 performance posted yesterday:
Product Help - Delkin Devices
CFexpress™ Card Readers (REMOVABLE vs. FIXED Mode): Delkin’s USB 3.2 CFexpress™ Memory Card Readers (DDREADER-54 / DDREADER-56 / DDREADER-58) may be set in either FIXED or REMOVABLE mode. The below PC Utility Software provides an easy way for customers to switch the mode on the reader depending...www.delkindevices.com
It doubles down on saying it can shoot indefinitely at 20fps lossless compressed RAW, however it does have some weasel words to the effect of YMMV.
I wrote them back saying effectively "yah, i'm not getting that". I guess we'll see what they say.
they also say that the buffer never maxes out, and that's not true of my testing. you can see the remaining value goes to zero and stays there which is not what they are implying.So it looks like they clarified to say no stops, not a slight drop in fps. Since it seems like it will only drop to 15fps based on other comments, I’m more than ok with the performance. I agree the marketing, or at least original statement, is/was slightly misleading.
I have both the 325GB Cobalt cards and the "new" 325GB Dellkin cards and in my testing shooting 20FPS Lossless Compressed Raw, Z9 set to manual, ISO 400 shutter speed 1/2500 C-AF, this is how I normally shot in the real world and I don't see really any difference in performance between the 2 cards, They both shoot for about 4 seconds before they start to stutter... Bottom line, I paid $799 for 2 325GB Prograde Cobalt cards and $860 for 2 of the new Delkins.. Not the end of the world.How does this compare to ProGrade Cobalts?
I'd ask them to escalate the issue to one of their managers for more clarification. I don't think their original statement would be completely made up, so they should be able to outline the parameters under which the buffer never fills.So Delkin support got back to me with a very generic "see this page" upon which has a note about Z9 performance posted yesterday:
Product Help - Delkin Devices
CFexpress™ Card Readers (REMOVABLE vs. FIXED Mode): Delkin’s USB 3.2 CFexpress™ Memory Card Readers (DDREADER-54 / DDREADER-56 / DDREADER-58) may be set in either FIXED or REMOVABLE mode. The below PC Utility Software provides an easy way for customers to switch the mode on the reader depending...www.delkindevices.com
It doubles down on saying it can shoot indefinitely at 20fps lossless compressed RAW, however it does have some weasel words to the effect of YMMV.
I wrote them back saying effectively "yah, i'm not getting that". I guess we'll see what they say.
Thanks. I'll stick with my Prograde Cobalt cards. I shoot in HE* - I have not done a comparison between formats, IQ and noise yet, based upon everything I have heard /read HE* is basically equivalent to lossless RawI have both the 325GB Cobalt cards and the "new" 325GB Dellkin cards and in my testing shooting 20FPS Lossless Compressed Raw, Z9 set to manual, ISO 400 shutter speed 1/2500 C-AF, this is how I normally shot in the real world and I don't see really any difference in performance between the 2 cards, They both shoot for about 4 seconds before they start to stutter... Bottom line, I paid $799 for 2 325GB Prograde Cobalt cards and $860 for 2 of the new Delkins.. Not the end of the world.
I also agree with others posts, the limitation is the Z9 and not the these "high" end cards
i'm curious what "high shutter speed" has to do with anythingThis is what got back from Delkin
I also spoke to a support representative and he said in “lab” conditions they are getting unlimited 20fps using lossless raw with the Z9, I was told by the rep that this was achieved using “P” mode, and that shooting at higher shutter speeds would be an issue.. I think they “somewhat” over represented what these new cards can do.Product Help - Delkin Devices
CFexpress™ Card Readers (REMOVABLE vs. FIXED Mode): Delkin’s USB 3.2 CFexpress™ Memory Card Readers (DDREADER-54 / DDREADER-56 / DDREADER-58) may be set in either FIXED or REMOVABLE mode. The below PC Utility Software provides an easy way for customers to switch the mode on the reader depending...www.delkindevices.com
Yeah, I thought about that afterwards and to me that part would be incorrect in their statement. I have the new 150GB and haven’t bothered to test it with the buffer. I’ll have to do that.they also say that the buffer never maxes out, and that's not true of my testing. you can see the remaining value goes to zero and stays there which is not what they are implying.
Wonder if the claim in based upon real world testing, or just combining specs from testing different components????I suspect the customer service reps involved are completely clueless. It's too bad they can't escalate to someone with some level of knowledge. I can't believe Delkin would run an ad for a new card based on a customer service rep's test in P mode - obviously without knowing what they were doing. This just does not add up.