New Delkin Black claims no buffer on Z9...

[Griffym]

tests of write speed vs sustained speed are open to interpretation. This test from: https://www.thessdreview.com/our-re...cf-express-type-b-512gb-memory-card-review/4/
do show both a burst at the start and the sustainable speed of 1.43Gb/s. How the test was done and exact details of the process do need to be made clear. The graph applies only to that test with those conditions. I bet it is much more difficult to set up an actual in camera measurement.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

i think the 1710 is maximum write speed, not minimum. it’s a bit frustrating trying to nail down the specs

The confusion is based on whether you are talking about Maximum or Minimum write speeds or whether you are talking about SUSTAINED SEQUENTIAL WRITE SPEEDS. In the specs given for all of these cards, you usually don't see "sustained sequential write speeds".
Here is a quote from the Delkin website on the new Delkin Black CFexpress cards: Other competing CFexpress™ Type B cards may state a maximum write speed, but BLACK takes things further with sustained sequential write speeds of at least 1400 MB/s (higher depending on capacity).
The previous Delkin Black cards gave a sustained sequential write speed of only about 1200 MB/s.

 

[arbitrage]

But Delkin's own verbiage from the older cards reads as this: "Minimum sustained sequential write speeds exceeding 1710 MB/s guarantee that data is written swiftly and safely to the card, capturing everything as you intended. It is also approved for real-time broadcasting and supports raw continuous-burst shooting."

With the new card: "Minimum sustained sequential write speeds exceeding 1530 MB/s guarantee that data is written swiftly and safely to the card, capturing everything as you intended. It is also approved for real-time broadcasting and supports raw continuous-burst shooting."

They seem to say that 1710 is a min-sustained. Now they say 1530 is min-sustained on the new cards. So if the unlimited buffer is true (and they didn't totally mess up their testing by using HE* or using slower than 1/250s which drops FPS) then something else has improved with the card to allow this.

 

[JLT]

Forget using that in my Z9, that would be an upgrade for most laptops!

Now that many of us have had some time with the Z9, is anybody really hitting the buffer? I’m using a Lexar Professional CFE card, and have shot Lossless, HE+, HE, and C120, and have not hit the buffer once. By the time I even think to look at the frame remaining counter after a burst, it has already flushed.

I was planning on relegating this kinda-fast Lexar card to second-slot duty when a good deal came along on a really fast card, but at this point I’m more tempted to buy a really big, really slow CFE to use for overflow.

At least for me, the fast cards seem unnecessary. Is this crazy Delkin card in your guys’ sights?

I have the Prograde cards and shoot lossless, never have had the buffer full. I saw this info and thought, nah, don’t need it!

 

[Dave Stargazer]

So... got the Delkin Black 512gb card from BH today. Immediately tested it. Same performance as the previous 128gb Delkin Black (I did extensive tests before, along with my Sony Tough 128gb CFe). I checked the SKU on the packaging - it's the SKU for the new version. I'm going to reach out to Delkin (on Monday when they open), and see if the card is actually a new one, and what the story is... I see that someone on NikonRumors had the same experience with the 325gb card. I'd rather have mistakenly gotten the old card, than it be shown they were making spurious/misleading claims...

Cheers!

 

[John Navitsky]

So... got the Delkin Black 512gb card from BH today. Immediately tested it. Same performance as the previous 128gb Delkin Black (I did extensive tests before, along with my Sony Tough 128gb CFe). I checked the SKU on the packaging - it's the SKU for the new version. I'm going to reach out to Delkin (on Monday when they open), and see if the card is actually a new one, and what the story is... I see that someone on NikonRumors had the same experience with the 325gb card. I'd rather have mistakenly gotten the old card, than it be shown they were making spurious/misleading claims...

Cheers!

oy

 

[Barbara]

So... got the Delkin Black 512gb card from BH today. Immediately tested it. Same performance as the previous 128gb Delkin Black (I did extensive tests before, along with my Sony Tough 128gb CFe). I checked the SKU on the packaging - it's the SKU for the new version. I'm going to reach out to Delkin (on Monday when they open), and see if the card is actually a new one, and what the story is... I see that someone on NikonRumors had the same experience with the 325gb card. I'd rather have mistakenly gotten the old card, than it be shown they were making spurious/misleading claims...

Cheers!

I think the older cards larger than 128 had slower specs than it, so now they're catching up. Overall, I suspect the new hype is mostly or perhaps entirely about the new cards larger than 150.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

I think the older cards larger than 128 had slower specs than it, so now they're catching up. Overall, I suspect the new hype is mostly or perhaps entirely about the new cards larger than 150.

Ricci had the same performance (even better in some situations) on his old 512gb Delkin Black card as I did on my 128gb (which supposedly had better specs)... He found the 512gb was actually a bit faster, but did not know why...

Tests of I/O rates has *many* factors - I started by doing 'ideal' tests, and got better results, but now I use 'real world' situations for my tests - how will it respond when I'm trying to capture that BiF in changing conditions? Auto ISO, AF type, etc. affected buffer performance.

I'll do more tests, but was looking forward to not having to think at all about segmenting my bursts to prevent the buffer from filling when I *really* need it - too often my pause would be the exact wrong time! haha

Cheers!

Edit: Let me add that if you can wait for a new/more cards, I'd recommend to do so atm - cards are going to get faster and cheaper in the next year (fingers crossed! haha). I needed/wanted one more CFe card (I've been sharing between the Z6ii and Z9), and wanted it to be bigger than 128gb (for video, etc.), which drove me toward the ProGrade 325gb, then the only fractionally more expensive Delkin Black 512gb, then this supposedly new version of that card. If you don't have that immediate need, I'd say wait I survived with one 128gb XQD + various SD cards for my D850

Edit #2: I just sent an email detailing the situation to Delkin. We'll see what they say.

 

[John Navitsky]

my results with the new delkin black 650gb:

 

[John Navitsky]

So... got the Delkin Black 512gb card from BH today. Immediately tested it. Same performance as the previous 128gb Delkin Black (I did extensive tests before, along with my Sony Tough 128gb CFe). I checked the SKU on the packaging - it's the SKU for the new version. I'm going to reach out to Delkin (on Monday when they open), and see if the card is actually a new one, and what the story is... I see that someone on NikonRumors had the same experience with the 325gb card. I'd rather have mistakenly gotten the old card, than it be shown they were making spurious/misleading claims...

Cheers!

any word back?

 

[Dave Stargazer]

any word back?

Yes - they asked for pics of the invoice, and card, and I also sent one of the packaging - all showing the new SKU. The S/N on the card looks like the old style one (not like the one on the BH site - but that could just be a mockup etc.). Waiting to hear back from them.

My stopwatch said you got about 3.5 secs before hitting the buffer == ~70 frames - similar to me with the 512gb and 128gb (I'm getting 80ish under my 'real world' test conditions - can get more if I simplify the conditions e.g. lens cap on, but not a lot more).

Interesting stuttering afterwards - frame rate drops, but still pretty decent (10fps-ish overall?). My 512gb seems similar (need to compare the 128gb).

HE* 20fps is not limitless, and similar to my 128gb (which is more frames than I'll likely ever need 15fps in all formats is limitless.

Bottom line for me is that I don't want to have to use any brain power anticipating the shortcomings of the tool in the heat of the action ("oh do I need to pause the burst now?").

Cheers!

 

[John Navitsky]

my new 650gb black definitely stalls, but is still maintains a pretty fast frame rate (guessing around 15 fps maybe?). i compared to my old version delkin black 512gb and when that hits the buffer wall it drops to like 1 fps and takes a lot longer to clear the buffer. this one is definitely a lot faster, but it's not maintaining a solid 20fps indefinitely

 

[arbitrage]

my new 650gb black definitely stalls, but is still maintains a pretty fast frame rate (guessing around 15 fps maybe?). i compared to my old version delkin black 512gb and when that hits the buffer wall it drops to like 1 fps and takes a lot longer to clear the buffer. this one is definitely a lot faster, but it's not maintaining a solid 20fps indefinitely

How many shots are you getting before it stutters the first time? More than 90?

 

[John Navitsky]

you see the video? ^^^

 

[Dave Stargazer]

How many shots are you getting before it stutters the first time? More than 90?

My stopwatch said you got about 3.5 secs before hitting the buffer == ~70 frames

 

[arbitrage]

you see the video? ^^^

Yes I saw the video but it started to stutter within the first few seconds. So the shot count at the end is not shots to stutter. I'll go with Dave's estimate above which is worse than most people get even with older "fast" cards. His estimate seems about right...you start shooting at ~2s mark and it stutters at ~5.5s mark give or take. Even giving it a generous estimate of 4s only gives us 80shots before stutter.

 

[John Navitsky]

i have contacted Delkin and we'll see what they say

 

[Ivan Rothman]

I received my new Delkin Black CFexpress card, 150GB and ran the test.
Unfortunately, as reported by others here, I found no improvement in buffer capacity.
I shot RAW, lossless compressed at 20 fps. I recorded how many images captured before the capture rate started to stutter.

SONY TOUGH 128 GB card 67 captures
DELKIN BLACK 128 GB card 83 captures
New DELKIN BLACK 150 GB card 84 captures

 

[EricBowles]

I wonder if it needs a deep format outside the camera to perform as needed. I recall someone had similar feedback from Delkin recently to resolve a card problem. Delkin's customer service is quite good.

 

[John Navitsky]

Both Dave and I have tickets in with Delkin. I suggest everyone else who sees the problem does the same.

That said, do note that I'm not seeing the SAME performance from my old and new card. The old card drops to like 1 fps when it hits the buffer, the new card seems to be able to maintain 10-15 fps after hitting the buffer and it clears much faster.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

I wonder if it needs a deep format outside the camera to perform as needed. I recall someone had similar feedback from Delkin recently to resolve a card problem. Delkin's customer service is quite good.

I don't see how that would help with a card that has never been used before.
I found an article from Delkin Devices dated 7/9/20. In this article they state: "Now that you understand the importance of formatting, another thing to know is the proper way of formatting, specifically only in a camera and not a computer. A memory card can be formatted in a computer, but if it’s trying to be used in a camera, there’s a chance the camera may not be able to read the card’s file structure properly. As each host device’s operating system formats differently from one another, it’s important to only use memory cards that have been formatted in the camera you are planning to use."
They also go on to talk about Deep/Full formatting or Low Level formatting in a computer to fully erase all data on card. A long process. But this would only correct problems arising because of previous use of the card leaving buildup of data from old files. So Delkin only recommends this after extended use of a card.

So I can only conclude that the statements from Delkin, that this card is much faster and allows unlimited buffer, is just not an accurate statement.

 

[John Navitsky]

I don't see how that would help with a card that has never been used before.

i think the thing that a "full" format brings to the table is it can map out bad blocks. there's also potentially some sort of conditioning aspect with flash, not totally sure about that.

but i have seen this come up on the net with a report from the poster saying it solved their issue.

i'll be curious is Delkin suggests this.

 

[Ivan Rothman]

i think the thing that a "full" format brings to the table is it can map out bad blocks. there's also potentially some sort of conditioning aspect with flash, not totally sure about that.

but i have seen this come up on the net with a report from the poster saying it solved their issue.

i'll be curious is Delkin suggests this.

I could see that as a possibility if only one card was found lacking. But others have reported here the same thing that I found. Are we all getting cards with bad blocks?

 

[John Navitsky]

I could see that as a possibility if only one card was found lacking. But others have reported here the same thing that I found. Are we all getting cards with bad blocks?

It's super hard to say. I don't know if you noticed all the Angelbird cards had to get firmware updates and crazy things when they first rolled out. I think there is also a possibility that the hype mill over-hyped the actual capabilities or there was some other sort of "lost in translation" issue. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

I've done more extensive tests of the old 128gb vs the new 512gb drilling down the millisecond EXIF data on the captures. The performance is identical: 79 frames in the first 4 seconds, 15 fps (avg) per sec afterwards.

Additionally, CrystalDiskMark shows identical read/write speeds (within a small margin of error)...