Nikon Z8 vs. Sony A1ii

As @Nimi and others say above, it's the Glass that matters most.

Autofocus is probably the most active arena of R&D by the leading companies. Nikon's strategy releases frequent firmware updates. Besides new features added and bug fixes, it's assumed each release incorporates the latest state of Deep-Learning training of the pattern recognition algorithms.

Subject Detection has significantly changed how we use the Z9 and related MILCs with their respective versions of the Z9 Autofocus system. One advantage, for example, of SD with wildlife subjects is getting images of sharp eyes on a moving subject.

Useful sources for Nikkor reviews and data links are appended, with respect to information for wildlife gear.

Many of us rely on the FTZ adapters to use G and E type F-mount lenses on our Z cameras.

Larry S. said:

Geeze peeze!!!! Pick your poison and move on! They’re all good….

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You basically can't fail picking any one of them that's for sure.

fcotterill said:

As @Nimi and others say above, it's the Glass that matters most.

Autofocus is probably the most active arena of R&D by the leading companies. Nikon's strategy releases frequent firmware updates. Besides new features added and bug fixes, it's assumed each release incorporates the latest state of Deep-Learning training of the pattern recognition algorithms.

Subject Detection has significantly changed how we use the Z9 and related MILCs with their respective versions of the Z9 Autofocus system. One advantage, for example, of SD with wildlife subjects is getting images of sharp eyes on a moving subject.

Useful sources for Nikkor reviews and data links are appended, with respect to information for wildlife gear.

Many of us rely on the FTZ adapters to use G and E type F-mount lenses on our Z cameras.

Detailed comparisons of Nikkor Telephotos

For Z system, including a few F Nikkors - synopsis of Thom Hogan's detailed testing to identify the 'Best Telephoto Options in the Z Mount' : https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-lenses/nikkor-lenses/z-mount-lens-articles/best-telephoto-options-in.html Table added:

bcgforums.com

Natural Art Images: Brad Hill: Stuff I Use Part I: Cameras

Camera gear and related accessories regularly used by Brad Hill in the field. Part I - Cameras I currently use or have used.

www.naturalart.ca

"Which Nikon telephoto(s)?" for Wildlife Genres: Updated

This question involves an interesting set of factors. The answer(s) depend on one's personal needs, and budget obviously, besides the diversity of subjects and respective conditions. Here's an attempt to sketch out the challenges, and outline where to find resources to help settling final...

bcgforums.com

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Auto Capture also opens up a ton of opportunities as well for creative placement of the camera closer to wildlife and being able to use shorter prime lenses which are sharper than the big telephoto's.

I agree that the m43 sensor is near the end of its developmental life.

---but....
Nikon isn't there yet. It doesn't have pre-capture in RAW and the Z8 is heavy. The PF primes are great but the 180-600 zooms are also heavy. I would not sell my OM Systems gear but if money is no issue a Z8/600pf would be fun.

Sony had jumped Nikon with the A1-2. Plus the A1-2 is lighter than the Z8 but no pf lenses. Plus limited to 30 f/s when you are used to 50 f/s. Again, won't sell my OM Systems gear but an A1-2/200-600 would be fun.

Canon R5-2 plus 100-500 is the lightest of the bunch. However, how much do you gain.

Bottom line: As an OM Systems user it is not yet time to switch. Wait for the Z8-2 and see.

Robert.Panick said:

Thank all of you for your insights, you came up with a few thoughts I hadn't considered. Looks like the Nikon is going to make more sense

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Perhaps coming in a little late, for those who handhold longer lenses a lot, in lens VR is usually distinctly more important than IBIS.
The Nikon in-lens VR system seems to have clear advantages over Sony.

Len Shepherd said:

Perhaps coming in a little late, for those who handhold longer lenses a lot, in lens VR is usually distinctly more important than IBIS.
The Nikon in-lens VR system seems to have clear advantages over Sony.

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caveat, for stills. i think it sounds like sony does better with video stabilization

My reasons for switching from Sony to Nikon z8 earlier this year:

Nikon 600 and 800pf lenses.

Compact flash B vs A cards are up to 3-4 times cheaper.

Body ergonomics. Especially the gap between some lenses and right hand fingers. But also the extra Function bottoms on front of camera and the lcd on top of camera.

More frequent and more feature added firmware updates.

Price compared to A1. Got a like new Z8 for $2700 vs close to $5,000 for a used A1 at the time.

Nikon mount allows Sony (and third party Sony mount) lenses to adapted to Nikon. Be aware though that focus while zooming doesn’t work, at least not for me. Otherwise it’s been flawless for me.

Z8 and Z9 photographer and very happy. But either system is excellent. Which ever your buy, the 'grass will always be greener' on the other side of the fence. The only. logical solution is to buy both systems. We'll expect a report from you in five years on which system is better.

John Navitsky said:

caveat, for stills. i think it sounds like sony does better with video stabilization

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I don’t think this is true but also depends on a few factors. It seems lumix is the one to beat with video stabilization and handles most situations well. Sony and Nikon both suffer from some weird jerks when trying to correct movement from walking or panning but if you’re hand holding and filming a subject in an area I think Nikon is better. Watch some of Jan’s videos where he says the stabilization on the Nikon is incredible with examples. I’ve been able to handhold video at 700-840mm with the Z8/Z9 that is very stable.

Th

abc123brian said:

I don’t think this is true but also depends on a few factors. It seems lumix is the one to beat with video stabilization and handles most situations well. Sony and Nikon both suffer from some weird jerks when trying to correct movement from walking or panning but if you’re hand holding and filming a subject in an area I think Nikon is better. Watch some of Jan’s videos where he says the stabilization on the Nikon is incredible with examples. I’ve been able to handhold video at 700-840mm with the Z8/Z9 that is very stable.

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That's my experience, Lumix (less dense sensor) is the one to beat. If you're a hybrid shooter leaning more to video, the S5ii is a great camera. I got its stripped down version the S9. But it's not a great action camera and the L alliance doesn't have the lenses Sony and Nikon have.

Robert.Panick said:

I've been shooting MFT since the E-M1, I really don't have a problem with the smaller sensor. Most of my existing OM glass is f/2.8, when I go to full frame I will likely go with f/4 lenses for some of it. The exceptions being a 70-200 f/2.8 and whatever I end up with for telephoto. The size/weight/cost are in line with my MFT glass for the most part. My major concern is will MFT be able to innovate. Sensors are a big issue, there isn't the volume to justify a lot of iteration. Same goes for the processor. I'm also not too sure about OM ability to push the edges like they did in the past.

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I agree this is all an unknown. I would not be surprised if they move away from
M4/3 and go to an apsc size sensor. They wouldn’t have to change much and it’s much more excepted by consumers.

nmerc_photos said:

now this is a phrase I've never heard someone say before LOL

• If cost is a main factor for you, especially if you want two of your main body - Sony doesn't make a ton of sense.
• Every lens that you can use on a Sony body, you can also use on a Nikon body, even FE mounts
• Agree, 5MP is negligible
• Agree, slightly ahead but not twice as good
• Disagree, I think we'll see a successor to the Z8 release next year or 2026 at latest
• Agree
• Agree

I'm currently a Nikon user, most likely going to Sony with the A1 II.

IMO and what I've seen, the biggest (only?) draw to Nikon is the lens lineup. If you can't or don't want to shell out money on the 300GM, the 400 4.5 and 600PF are good alternatives. If you don't want to spend money on a 600GM + 1.4x, the 800PF is a good alternative. If you do want to spend money on the big lenses, the TC lenses are incredible.

My main reasons for going to Sony are: Better AF, precapture raw, 30 fps, and size and weight. I'll be reducing my kit weight by about 20% across the board. For me, at this time it seems like a good move at least until the next Z8/Z9 come out. Then I hope to come back some day

My ideal would be an R3 body with Sony internals, Canon AF, a 300TC, 600TC, and 100-500.

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Just for clarification: The a1 II's 30 fps is compressed raw, not lossless compressed! That holds true for pre-capture as well. Thus, Nikon's capabilities do not look that bad even if it is "only" jpg. Sold my a1 fortunately a couple of months ago in anticipation of this disappointing "update".

Robert.Panick said:

Good observations, but I suspect we won't see the Z8 and Z9 refreshes for a bit yet. Things have slowed down, it costs more and takes longer to make minor improvements.

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I would be extremely surprised to see a longer wait time between the Z8/Z9 II *UNLESS* they did what someone else said, and decide to just keep throwing firmware updates at them and continue to sell them that way.

Would be an interesting case study in profitability. But with Canon and Sony just dropping their new cameras, it would be very strange to me to see Nikon lag so far behind. A lot of missed opportunity if you ask me.

A ton of unhappy Sony A1 and Canon R5 owners right now who view the A1II/R5II as what could've been firmware upgrades, at higher costs.

Nikon bodies with 30 FPS+, precapture raw, and better AF right now (or anytime in the next 4 years until the following round of Sony/Canon) could capitalize on and get a lot of users to swap to the Nikon system.

DocKayT said:

Just for clarification: The a1 II's 30 fps is compressed raw, not lossless compressed! That holds true for pre-capture as well. Thus, Nikon's capabilities do not look that bad even if it is "only" jpg. Sold my a1 fortunately a couple of months ago in anticipation of this disappointing "update".

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Compressed raw, lossless compressed, neither one makes a big distinction. What does make a huge distinction is JPEG. It's so far behind the others that it's hardly worth mentioning, unless you're a high speed news shooter who has to get that image out to the papers in seconds.

I think Nikon will aim for end of 2025 or early 2026 just in time for Winter Olympics for the Z9II. Z8II may come out later just like Z8 or maybe it would make more sense to just release them at the same time?? Although given how many people I saw buy Z9, sell Z9, buy Z8, it was probably better for Nikon to not release them at the same time as they made more money from two purchases.

I will take a hard look at the next round of Z9/Z8 cameras. I would love to shoot the 400TC and then might adapt my 300GM or go 600PF for my lightweight option. But maybe by then Sony will bring out a new 400/2.8 with a TC in it and then it won't really matter...I'll stick with Sony.

arbitrage said:

I think Nikon will aim for end of 2025 or early 2026 just in time for Winter Olympics for the Z9II. Z8II may come out later just like Z8 or maybe it would make more sense to just release them at the same time?? Although given how many people I saw buy Z9, sell Z9, buy Z8, it was probably better for Nikon to not release them at the same time as they made more money from two purchases.

I will take a hard look at the next round of Z9/Z8 cameras. I would love to shoot the 400TC and then might adapt my 300GM or go 600PF for my lightweight option. But maybe by then Sony will bring out a new 400/2.8 with a TC in it and then it won't really matter...I'll stick with Sony.

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I think your timeline makes a lot of sense and while it is impossible to know the inner working strategies of these corporations, I can say that the design and tooling for new bodies is quite expensive. In most industries, maximizing sales, profits, and ROI predominate and that is always tempered against competitive market features. Unless, Nikon perceives that the new Canon and Sony releases are carving into these factors, I doubt they will race to produce and release the Z9II and Z8II any time soon.

arbitrage said:

I think Nikon will aim for end of 2025 or early 2026 just in time for Winter Olympics for the Z9II. Z8II may come out later just like Z8 or maybe it would make more sense to just release them at the same time?? Although given how many people I saw buy Z9, sell Z9, buy Z8, it was probably better for Nikon to not release them at the same time as they made more money from two purchases.

I will take a hard look at the next round of Z9/Z8 cameras. I would love to shoot the 400TC and then might adapt my 300GM or go 600PF for my lightweight option. But maybe by then Sony will bring out a new 400/2.8 with a TC in it and then it won't really matter...I'll stick with Sony.

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They need to do something to increase the gap between a z8 and a z9. I suspect one will get a higher MP sensor or maybe a global sensor. Not sure what but the z8 did impact z9 sales. It doesn’t make sense to have a flagship and another body with the same capabilities packaged in different sizes.