600 PF Auto-focus issue - need assistance

[ScottR]

I've searched this forum and other areas but haven't found an answer to my issue. I apologize if this has previously been addressed. Hopefully someone here will have a solution for me. I am an amateur and a relatively new mirrorless owner, having acquired a Z8 last year making the jump from a D810. I enjoy capturing images of birds and other wildlife. Recently I acquired a Z 600 PF f/6.3 lens.

I struggle to get the lens to autofocus on a bird nearby, say 20-50 feet away. (e.g. an American Kestrel perched on a sign, or a song sparrow on a log). I'm having to use the manual focus ring to bring it into focus. I then try to fine tune the focus by using autofocus, however the lens throws the bird completely out of focus and then I'm back to manually focusing, which is aggravating and frustrating. I'm using bird detect and 3D, putting the focus point on the bird. I'm also using BBAF. It just seems like this should be a no brainer and that it should work! Any ideas on how to solve this issue? Has this been a problem for any of you? Appreciate any tips or assistance. TIA.

 

[DRwyoming]

Appreciate any tips or assistance.

Are you certain the Focus Limiter switch on the lens body isn't set to the long distance setting (10m-infinity)? What you describe is exactly how the lens will behave if the focus limiter switch is set for distant subjects but your subjects are closer than 10m away.

 

[JAJohnson]

I'm using bird detect and 3D, putting the focus point on the bird. I'm also using BBAF. It just seems like this should be a no brainer and that it should work! Any ideas on how to solve this issue? Has this been a problem for any of you? Appreciate any tips or assistance. TIA.

I wouldn’t use 3D as a primary focus mode. Try using wide-small, wide-large, or auto area to allow auto focus to find the bird, particularly the head or eye, then handoff to 3D.

Review the YouTube video below from Steve Perry.

Or even better, invest in his e-book on use of the Z8/Z9 for wildlife photography.

 

[ScottR]

JAJohnson, thanks for your reply and comment. I should have said that I find the bird with Wide large, then use a function button programmed for 3D to try and focus on it. However, I can't seem to get the autofocus to work on birds 20-50 feet away. I do have the Steve Perry e-book.

 

[Cameron T]

Can you post examples of failed shots along with settings? It'll make this much easier to figure out what's going on.

You can also verify that the combo focuses on other subjects, which would narrow down the range of issues.

 

[JAJohnson]

JAJohnson, thanks for your reply and comment. I should have said that I find the bird with Wide large, then use a function button programmed for 3D to try and focus on it. However, I can't seem to get the autofocus to work on birds 20-50 feet away. I do have the Steve Perry e-book.

From your description you’re attempting to photograph perched birds, which should be easy for you to get a reliable focus lock. If you’re using wide-large, bird subject detection should find the head or eye. If the bird isn’t moving much, no need for 3D if you keep the head/eye within the wide-large focus area, or just outside it.

 

[ScottR]

Cameron and JAJohnson, I will attempt to get some examples and post them here. Thank you for your assistance!

 

[wotan1]

I agree stay away from 3d. I use auto area and bird subject and it works all the time. Make sure your lens is set for all length (no limiter) AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE NOT INADVERTENTLY TURNED THE AUTO/MANUAL SWITCH TO MANUAL. I have done that before.

 

[Viathelens]

I have the same setup. I've taken a lot of nice images with it. I think getting used to all the focus choices in the mirrorless cameras can be a bit daunting. I used to shoot with the D500 and D850 using BBAF but stopped doing that when I started with mirrorless and I've been happy with that choice. I can use that button for some important setting, like 3D, since I have mind-muscle memory for it. Perhaps you are forgetting to hit the BBAF for focus prior to taking the shot, I've seen that seen that happen before as it can be easy to forget to do. Perhaps you might try using the shutter to see if that helps as you don't have to do so much at one time. In Alaska recently I used the Auto auto-focus setting and that worked beautifully, along with the camera set to Bird as I was shooting eagles. You might consider reading the info put out by Nikon on shooting action, they use sports examples, but it does help to understand the focus settings. Do not use the recent wildlife book they put out! Do you have the same trouble if you use a different focus mode, perhaps going back to basics with a Dynamic focus setting since that is more "old school," just to get used to the setup as you learn the various focus modes and when to use them. Just trying to offer some things that might help. It's hard to really know what is going on since we cannot be with you...

 

[wotan1]

I have also found that shooting with a buddy helps. Sometimes something obvious is wrong and a second pair of eyes can spot it. Or take it into a store and have them check to see what may be wrong.

On one shoot during the day I inadvertently switched from photo to video. I could not understand why my camera menus were all cockeyed.

Duh. I will never make that mistake again.

These are complex cameras and it takes a while until you get comfortable. They say it takes six months of regular use to develop muscle memory for all your controls and settings.

 

[Ralph]

JAJohnson, thanks for your reply and comment. I should have said that I find the bird with Wide large, then use a function button programmed for 3D to try and focus on it. However, I can't seem to get the autofocus to work on birds 20-50 feet away. I do have the Steve Perry e-book.

Did you check the focus limiter switch as Dave suggested.

 

[EricKlees]

If you have Auto Area AF mode set as your default (set to shutter) then you will see a passive white at box subject tracking your subject, then you can start your AF with 3D. Since FW 3.0 3D pick up from the dead center of the EVF if there's no passive white AF box actively tracking. If there is 3D now picks up wherever the passive white AF box is currently tracking. But you need to have the default AF mode set to either Auto Area or any Wide Area AF mode so you get the white AF box possibly tracking.

So 3D in your case, if the subject is so far out of focus or the dead center of the EVF was not on the subject, it would be expected to not find it.

 

[cchuck]

Is your Z8 FW updated to 2.00 which was released in February?

 

[ScottR]

Cameron and JAJohnson, I will attempt to get some examples and post them here. Thank you for your assistance!

Cameron and JAJohnson, this afternoon after reading your responses, I photographed some small birds in my backyard, many perched in trees and wild shrubs. I'm finding that even if I have a clear shot of the bird inside my AF box, oftentimes I'm not able to focus on the bird. The camera is either backfocusing on an object behind the bird, or trying to focus on a branch or limb several feet in front of the bird. I've attached an image of a Dark-eyed Junco as an example. I am using the 'bird' feature and Wide-C1. You would think that the camera would focus on the bird inside the AF box, but instead, it focuses on a branch a few feet in front of the bird. I'm only about 20-25 feet away from the bird! Msybe my expectations are too high?

A week ago I was photographing a Brown-creeper on a tree trunk with no branches or obstruction. I was about 20 feet away. I placed the Wide-C1 on the bird and it would not focus on the bird. I had to manually focus and then I used AF to try and fine-tune, and immediately the bird went way out of focus. Pretty frustrating!

 

[ScottR]

I agree stay away from 3d. I use auto area and bird subject and it works all the time. Make sure your lens is set for all length (no limiter) AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE NOT INADVERTENTLY TURNED THE AUTO/MANUAL SWITCH TO MANUAL. I have done that before.

Thank you, Wotan1. I am using the Bird subject, and my lens is set to 'Full' as you've suggested. Most of the time I'm using Wide-C1 and I have a function button for 3D and sometimes use that. I did check to make sure my lens is set to 'Auto'. Like you, I've made these mistakes before in the past. Thank you for your suggestions!

 

[ScottR]

I have also found that shooting with a buddy helps. Sometimes something obvious is wrong and a second pair of eyes can spot it. Or take it into a store and have them check to see what may be wrong.

On one shoot during the day I inadvertently switched from photo to video. I could not understand why my camera menus were all cockeyed.

Duh. I will never make that mistake again.

These are complex cameras and it takes a while until you get comfortable. They say it takes six months of regular use to develop muscle memory for all your controls and settings.

Wotan1, Great idea. I need to find someone that has either a Z8 or Z9 with this lens. That would be helpful. I've also inadvertantly switched from photo to video. Just about had a heart attach when things didn't seem to work right on the camera. Took me about 10 minutes to figure out what I'd done. I almost reset my camera to default...glad I didn't as it was an easy fix. Again, thank you for your input and comments. Much appreciated!

 

[ScottR]

I have the same setup. I've taken a lot of nice images with it. I think getting used to all the focus choices in the mirrorless cameras can be a bit daunting. I used to shoot with the D500 and D850 using BBAF but stopped doing that when I started with mirrorless and I've been happy with that choice. I can use that button for some important setting, like 3D, since I have mind-muscle memory for it. Perhaps you are forgetting to hit the BBAF for focus prior to taking the shot, I've seen that seen that happen before as it can be easy to forget to do. Perhaps you might try using the shutter to see if that helps as you don't have to do so much at one time. In Alaska recently I used the Auto auto-focus setting and that worked beautifully, along with the camera set to Bird as I was shooting eagles. You might consider reading the info put out by Nikon on shooting action, they use sports examples, but it does help to understand the focus settings. Do not use the recent wildlife book they put out! Do you have the same trouble if you use a different focus mode, perhaps going back to basics with a Dynamic focus setting since that is more "old school," just to get used to the setup as you learn the various focus modes and when to use them. Just trying to offer some things that might help. It's hard to really know what is going on since we cannot be with you...

Thank you for your input and your experiences. Will try some of your suggestions. I've also acquired Steve Perry's Secrets to The Nikon Autofocus System. Hopefully I will find something in this ebook that be helpful to solving my issues.

 

[JAJohnson]

Cameron and JAJohnson, this afternoon after reading your responses, I photographed some small birds in my backyard, many perched in trees and wild shrubs. I'm finding that even if I have a clear shot of the bird inside my AF box, oftentimes I'm not able to focus on the bird. The camera is either backfocusing on an object behind the bird, or trying to focus on a branch or limb several feet in front of the bird. I've attached an image of a Dark-eyed Junco as an example. I am using the 'bird' feature and Wide-C1. You would think that the camera would focus on the bird inside the AF box, but instead, it focuses on a branch a few feet in front of the bird. I'm only about 20-25 feet away from the bird! Msybe my expectations are too high?

A week ago I was photographing a Brown-creeper on a tree trunk with no branches or obstruction. I was about 20 feet away. I placed the Wide-C1 on the bird and it would not focus on the bird. I had to manually focus and then I used AF to try and fine-tune, and immediately the bird went way out of focus. Pretty frustrating!

Hello Scott. When using the wide or custom AF areas, whatever is closest to the lens and inside the focus box (or near it) will be the object in focus, regardless of the subject priority you’ve selected.

Given the example you’ve shared, you could do one of three things:

1) If the bird is partially obscured by branches, leaves, etc, you could use a 1x1 custom area. This would be just a bit larger than the single point focus indicator. You’d have to get it over the bird’s head or eye and you’d likely get a sharp image. Ensure that nothing else in the frame is in or near the focus box and in front of the bird. Doing this will take a bit of practice but you’ll get up to speed on it quickly. This is an approach that Steve uses and recommends. It’s what I’d recommend, too.

2) You could use single point focus, getting the focus point on the bird’s head/eye. You won’t have subject detection available, though. Again, be certain that nothing else is between the bird’s head/eye and your lens.

3) You could use wide-small and manually focus on the bird’s head, but if the branch is in the focus box (or near it) you’ll likely lose focus on the bird. I think you’ve already tried this without success.

I’ve attached two examples from my library where I’ve photographed a perched bird in branches. I used wide-small and was careful to keep the branches away from the focus box. It takes practice and willingness to change your location, if necessary, but it’s possible to get these kind of images. They’re not award winning () but I enjoy the challenge of getting photos like these when there’s an opportunity.

 

[Fiat]

Hello Scott. When using the wide or custom AF areas, whatever is closest to the lens and inside the focus box (or near it) will be the object in focus, regardless of the subject priority you’ve selected.

Given the example you’ve shared, you could do one of three things:

1) If the bird is partially obscured by branches, leaves, etc, you could use a 1x1 custom area. This would be just a bit larger that single point focus indicator. You’d have to get it over the bird’s head or eye and you’d likely get a sharp image. Ensure that nothing else in the frame is in or near the focus box and in front of the bird. Doing this will take a bit of practice but you’ll get up to speed on it quickly. This is an approach that Steve uses and recommends. It’s what I’d recommend, too.

2) You could use single point focus, getting the focus point on the bird’s head/eye. You won’t have subject detection available, though. Again, be certain that nothing else is between the bird’s head/eye and your lens.

3) You could use wide-small and manually focus on the bird’s head, but if the branch is in the focus box (or near it) you’ll likely lose focus on the bird. I think you’ve already tried this without success.

I’ve attached two examples from my library where I’ve photographed a perched bird in branches. I used wide-small and was careful to keep the branches away from the focus box. It takes practice and willingness to change your location, if necessary, but it’s possible to get these kind of images. They’re not award winning () but I enjoy the challenge of getting photos like these when there’s an opportunity.

Good advice! I wonder if 2 other settings would help the situation too: (1) use 3D small focus box to single out the small bird, (2) use auto area and auto-detection to let camera pick out the small bird?

 

[JAJohnson]

Good advice! I wonder if 2 other settings would help the situation too: (1) use 3D small focus box to single out the small bird, (2) use auto area and auto-detection to let camera pick out the small bird?

If there’s an unobstructed view of the bird auto area will work fine. That’s not the case in Scott’s example. An obstruction makes focus lock less certain.

3D is best used in a handoff from the wide, custom, or auto focus modes when the subject is in motion. If the subject is stationary or moving very little, it’s more or less the same as using a 1x1 custom area.

 

[ScottR]

Hello Scott. When using the wide or custom AF areas, whatever is closest to the lens and inside the focus box (or near it) will be the object in focus, regardless of the subject priority you’ve selected.

Given the example you’ve shared, you could do one of three things:

1) If the bird is partially obscured by branches, leaves, etc, you could use a 1x1 custom area. This would be just a bit larger that single point focus indicator. You’d have to get it over the bird’s head or eye and you’d likely get a sharp image. Ensure that nothing else in the frame is in or near the focus box and in front of the bird. Doing this will take a bit of practice but you’ll get up to speed on it quickly. This is an approach that Steve uses and recommends. It’s what I’d recommend, too.

2) You could use single point focus, getting the focus point on the bird’s head/eye. You won’t have subject detection available, though. Again, be certain that nothing else is between the bird’s head/eye and your lens.

3) You could use wide-small and manually focus on the bird’s head, but if the branch is in the focus box (or near it) you’ll likely lose focus on the bird. I think you’ve already tried this without success.

I’ve attached two examples from my library where I’ve photographed a perched bird in branches. I used wide-small and was careful to keep the branches away from the focus box. It takes practice and willingness to change your location, if necessary, but it’s possible to get these kind of images. They’re not award winning () but I enjoy the challenge of getting photos like these when there’s an opportunity.

JAJohnson, your detailed response is very helpful!! I will try these suggestions. And yes, it will take a lot more practice. So glad I have a large backyard with lots of birds to practice in. The Z8 is a wonderful and complex camera...more so than my previous D810. I have so much to learn. Thank you so much!!

 

[JAJohnson]

The more you practice, the better you’ll get using your Z8. Have fun!

 

[Cameron T]

Cameron and JAJohnson, this afternoon after reading your responses, I photographed some small birds in my backyard, many perched in trees and wild shrubs. I'm finding that even if I have a clear shot of the bird inside my AF box, oftentimes I'm not able to focus on the bird. The camera is either backfocusing on an object behind the bird, or trying to focus on a branch or limb several feet in front of the bird. I've attached an image of a Dark-eyed Junco as an example. I am using the 'bird' feature and Wide-C1. You would think that the camera would focus on the bird inside the AF box, but instead, it focuses on a branch a few feet in front of the bird. I'm only about 20-25 feet away from the bird! Msybe my expectations are too high?

A week ago I was photographing a Brown-creeper on a tree trunk with no branches or obstruction. I was about 20 feet away. I placed the Wide-C1 on the bird and it would not focus on the bird. I had to manually focus and then I used AF to try and fine-tune, and immediately the bird went way out of focus. Pretty frustrating!

Wide area modes have closest subject priority, and is correctly (to the camera) picking up the branch as it's closer in the frame.

As @JAJohnson said, using a smaller box (even 1x1) would help a great deal.

 

[Chappy]

Sometimes I run into the same issue. This just happened last week. I had a Kestrel sitting on a barbed wire fence about 20 yards away. I held the camera up and held the back button AF button on the Z9 with the 600 pf and it would not grab focus. I then i depressed my Fn1 button which is programmed for single point AF and it would not grab the Kestrel. Next I grabbed the focus ring and turned it until the bird was near focus and pushed the BBAF button and it finally grabbed it. I have seen this before and sometimes I grab the focus ring while other times I will point the camera to the ground under the subject to grab focus before going back to the subject.

Yes this can be very frustrating in the moment but you just have to find a quick solution and be ready for the situation. Generally moving to another point say under the subject works. I find this has happened to me on both my Z9 and Z8 with different telephotos attached. Its happened with the 100-400S and my. 300pf f mount also. In my use case it sems to happen the most when i have a isolated subject on a fence or post and background is far away.

I have the latest firmware updates on my camera and have Fn1 programmed to singel point, fn 2 to wide S and my curser pad to 3d. One other thing I have done that works is to toggle to dx mode and it sometimes grabs focus. I have my movie record button to toggle between fx and dx. It seems to happen more with kestrels than other birds. I routinely shoot burrowing owls just a few feet from where i took the following shot and it never misses. I often wonder if it is the coloring around the eyes of the kestrel that is fooling the camera.

 

[nmerc_photos]

I have found that all my Nikon equipment (compared to Canon) has issues with "back-focusing".

Meaning if the bird is 20' away, but I accidentally grab focus on something 30' in the background, the AF will always struggle to come back to 20'. It's like it keeps searching far out and never thinks to "re-rerack" the focus.

Some other popular YouTube Nikon shooters mention it as an issue too. Not sure if Steve includes it in any of his guides.

Very annoying - but I've learned just to flick the manual ring back to min focus and then it works.