fcotterill
Well-known member
just published
Nikon 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S Lens Review | Thom Hogan
Review of the Nikon 800mm f/6.3 lens for the Z System
www.zsystemuser.com
800mm f6.3S PF Review - Thom Hogan
- Thread starter fcotterill
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I do find the review to match my experience to date. He does list this lens as Highly Recommended subject to your own use cases. Comments about heat distortion and other minor issues are accurate. Each of us can look at our own use case and see how this lens fits in our scheme. I do not travel to Africa, but I do shoot small birds and other small animals at closer distances . Additionally, I have mobility limitations that do not always allow me to get closer to the subject.
For example, my favorite GBH rookery is right next to a well travelled road, on private property, across a swamp. That is as close as I can get and my shots with the 500 PF are cropped to about 9 or 16mp. The 800 with and without the TC14 will support shots with less cropping. We shall see.
In any case, this lens is at the top of my cost tolerance curve, and provides incredible value at that cost. It let's me do things I could not do without it and it is a key piece of my kit these days.
For example, my favorite GBH rookery is right next to a well travelled road, on private property, across a swamp. That is as close as I can get and my shots with the 500 PF are cropped to about 9 or 16mp. The 800 with and without the TC14 will support shots with less cropping. We shall see.
In any case, this lens is at the top of my cost tolerance curve, and provides incredible value at that cost. It let's me do things I could not do without it and it is a key piece of my kit these days.
I'm surprised that Tom spent so much time discussing heat distortion in a lens review. The phenomenon has nothing to do with a specific lens. Those who don't understand that and rely heavily on such reviews will likely be misled by such comments. At a given distance from the subject and for the same field of view(i.e. final cropped image) heat distortion has the same effect regardless of lens used. As he mentions many people are buying this lens because they can't get any closer to what they're shooting and they want more "pixels on target". So regardless of what lens they use heat distortion is going to be the same.
He also brings of challenges associated with tight field of view. Keeping the subject in the viewfinder is no harder with a longer lens for the same field of view. As a matter of fact it's actually easier with a longer lens due to less relative motion when you're farther from the subject.
And since he spent so much time talking about pros/cons of longer glass in general he failed to point out the benefits to point of view when shooting wildlife. The farther you are from a given subject the flatter the angle therefore lower apparent point of view. Which is generally considered a good thing.
He also brings of challenges associated with tight field of view. Keeping the subject in the viewfinder is no harder with a longer lens for the same field of view. As a matter of fact it's actually easier with a longer lens due to less relative motion when you're farther from the subject.
And since he spent so much time talking about pros/cons of longer glass in general he failed to point out the benefits to point of view when shooting wildlife. The farther you are from a given subject the flatter the angle therefore lower apparent point of view. Which is generally considered a good thing.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Another surprising remark is ”Focus: Surprisingly nimble. I’m tempted to say that the 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S is a little faster than the 400mm f/2.8 TC VR S”. Not sure if he is comparing the AF speed of 800 vs 400+TC2.0 or the bare lens. If he says the 800 auto focuses faster than the bare 400 2.8, I’d be really shocked considering the 400 has a VCM compared to stepper motors on the 800!
Anddd..he down rated the 400 2.8S for just one reason - handling i.e. the sub optimal placement of focus/fn/lens control ring. The 800PF handles pretty much the same and yet it is “highly recommended”
Anddd..he down rated the 400 2.8S for just one reason - handling i.e. the sub optimal placement of focus/fn/lens control ring. The 800PF handles pretty much the same and yet it is “highly recommended”
Generally a very good review but I have two comments;
1. AF speed VS 400/2.8TC is not as fast. I have both and use them several times a week and the 400 wins, no not by a lot but I acquire focus faster with the 400, it locks onto the subject quicker.
2. If I put a TC2.0X on my 400/2.8TC I will get the same heat distortion as the 800. Dan says this above and he is 100% correct! Don't let this influence your decision to buy or not.
Other then those two small points the 800pf rocks and I am so glad I got it early!
1. AF speed VS 400/2.8TC is not as fast. I have both and use them several times a week and the 400 wins, no not by a lot but I acquire focus faster with the 400, it locks onto the subject quicker.
2. If I put a TC2.0X on my 400/2.8TC I will get the same heat distortion as the 800. Dan says this above and he is 100% correct! Don't let this influence your decision to buy or not.
Other then those two small points the 800pf rocks and I am so glad I got it early!
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, i kind of lump a lot of his reviews in with others who "review" gear they don't regularly use
Yes totally agree with your point about AF speed! Maybe you are right and it's the 400/TC + TC2.0x?Another surprising remark is ”Focus: Surprisingly nimble. I’m tempted to say that the 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S is a little faster than the 400mm f/2.8 TC VR S”. Not sure if he is comparing the AF speed of 800 vs 400+TC2.0 or the bare lens. If he says the 800 auto focuses faster than the bare 400 2.8, I’d be really shocked considering the 400 has a VCM compared to stepper motors on the 800!
Anddd..he down rated the 400 2.8S for just one reason - handling i.e. the sub optimal placement of focus/fn/lens control ring. The 800PF handles pretty much the same and yet it is “highly recommended”
Also agree on his rating, the 400TC is the only lens he has ever given 5 stars for both optics and features on the following table and yet it's not "Highly Recommended" Doh!
https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-lenses/nikkor-lenses/nikon-z-mount-lens-reviews/
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
I was talking to a friend of mine that uses both the 400 2.8 and 800PF and his assessment was similar. He said he noticed 2 scenarios where the 400 2.8 has a noticeable advantage in terms of AF speed (even when paired with the internal TC). First is when there is low light or low contrast situations and the second is extreme peak action like swallows or swifts approaching directly at your camera at close distances.
DsD
Well-known member
Thom is very staunch on adhering to his review methodology/standards and has defended his rating accordingly. A tool is more than the sum of its parts and ergonomics matter. But we all aren’t clones of some ideal, thus ergonomics are a very subjective matter. Brad Hill overtly disagrees with Thom’s take on ergonomics.
Another surprising remark is ”Focus: Surprisingly nimble. I’m tempted to say that the 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S is a little faster than the 400mm f/2.8 TC VR S”. Not sure if he is comparing the AF speed of 800 vs 400+TC2.0 or the bare lens. If he says the 800 auto focuses faster than the bare 400 2.8, I’d be really shocked considering the 400 has a VCM compared to stepper motors on the 800!
Anddd..he down rated the 400 2.8S for just one reason - handling i.e. the sub optimal placement of focus/fn/lens control ring. The 800PF handles pretty much the same and yet it is “highly recommended”
With all these negatives/flaws with the 800 pf if anyone wishes to give theirs up, I will take one for the team. PM me and I will give shipping instructions.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
JoelKlein
Well-known member
….The lens does have some focus shift (to the back), so be careful using it at any aperture beyond the maximum, as the Z System autofocus system won't automatically correct for it….
I’m not sure I understood that.
I’m not sure I understood that.
JoelKlein
Well-known member
I really don’t know what he is talking about. Could be I know the facts, but I’m not putting it together.
What is he saying? This isn’t a zoom lens, when is the focus shifting?
...and how can you use it "beyond the maximum [aperture]"? Maximum should be maximum beyond which you cannot go? "Focus shift (to the back)" is probably "back focus" or consistently focusing "shorter" than the subject?
Maybe - but it's mirrorless so front and backfocus and very uncommon - especially with newer Z lens designs. My 800mm PF is very accurate.
By maximum aperture, I think he is referring to the widest aperture. In this the lens would normally focus wide open at f/6.3, and if you are trying to shoot at f/9 or f/11 you might find that the actual focus is different than wide open. I have not seen that, but technically it is possible. AF Fine tuning would not really be useful for this because the problem is not present wide open. My experience is I'm shooting wide open most of the time anyway, and the added DOF from stopping down should cover any focus shift issues.
Here is an article about focus shift.
What is Focus Shift?
photographylife.com
JoelKlein
Well-known member
Why isn’t the AF correcting it?
Wow! "Different strokes for different folks." I consider 750mm a minimum which is what I got with a 500pf on a D-500 and Thom likes 400mm? I would say that 80% of my shots are at 800mm.
Tom
Tom
One could surmise that Tom’s review also factors in the many new long lens buyers who would never buy a 400/500/600 F mount or one of the two new long TC lenses. I, for instance, had the 500 PF and that was my first lens longer than 300. With the 800 now in hand, I am becoming familiar with things I ”knew” to be true but had never personally experienced.
For example, I “know” that DoF will be really shallow on long lenses and have seen such with macro shooting. Even with that knowledge, it was eye opening to see just how shallow DoF is at 800mm and f/6.3 with small birds at minimum focus disttance - where the bird’s head my be in focus but not the body. Or even large animals, like a camel frame filling shot head on with the nose in focus and the eyes out of focus.
I found the review interesting, and his opinion that the lens was better than he expected. It was framed from the perspective of how he shoots and will be quite different for me because I do not shoot in Africa. On the other hand, with my limited mobility making it hard for me to always get closer to my siubjects, this lens is giving me opportunities I would never have had without it.
In the end, he gave it a Highly Recommended rating so that works for me.
For example, I “know” that DoF will be really shallow on long lenses and have seen such with macro shooting. Even with that knowledge, it was eye opening to see just how shallow DoF is at 800mm and f/6.3 with small birds at minimum focus disttance - where the bird’s head my be in focus but not the body. Or even large animals, like a camel frame filling shot head on with the nose in focus and the eyes out of focus.
I found the review interesting, and his opinion that the lens was better than he expected. It was framed from the perspective of how he shoots and will be quite different for me because I do not shoot in Africa. On the other hand, with my limited mobility making it hard for me to always get closer to my siubjects, this lens is giving me opportunities I would never have had without it.
In the end, he gave it a Highly Recommended rating so that works for me.
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Thank you, Eric. Your explanation(s) make sense. I think the original text is poorly written (in this case). And thanks for the link to the focus shift article!Maybe - but it's mirrorless so front and backfocus and very uncommon - especially with newer Z lens designs. My 800mm PF is very accurate.
By maximum aperture, I think he is referring to the widest aperture. In this the lens would normally focus wide open at f/6.3, and if you are trying to shoot at f/9 or f/11 you might find that the actual focus is different than wide open. I have not seen that, but technically it is possible. AF Fine tuning would not really be useful for this because the problem is not present wide open. My experience is I'm shooting wide open most of the time anyway, and the added DOF from stopping down should cover any focus shift issues.
Here is an article about focus shift.
What is Focus Shift?
Keep in mind that pretty much the only wildlife he shoots in in Africa from a safari vehicle.
What you're experiencing is likely indicative of how much you've been cropping with shorter lenses to get the FOV you want. For a given aperture and the same field of view DOF is the same regardless of focal length. For example, a 500mm lens and 800mm will have the same field of view at 50 ft and 80ft respectively. And at f6.3 DOF with 500mm at 50ft is 1.12ft. At f6.3 with 800mm at 80ft DOF is .... 1.12ft.
Intellectually I undestand what you say and have for some ime, but seeing it in am image is eye opening. I do get a different answer than you on my dof calculator
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
I don't think Thom.is referring here to the AF fine tune issues like on the DSLRs. I have seen few of Thom's reviews of Z glass where he keeps saying there is focus shift when you stop the lens down and the fact that Z cameras do not have a way to correct it.Maybe - but it's mirrorless so front and backfocus and very uncommon - especially with newer Z lens designs. My 800mm PF is very accurate.
By maximum aperture, I think he is referring to the widest aperture. In this the lens would normally focus wide open at f/6.3, and if you are trying to shoot at f/9 or f/11 you might find that the actual focus is different than wide open. I have not seen that, but technically it is possible. AF Fine tuning would not really be useful for this because the problem is not present wide open. My experience is I'm shooting wide open most of the time anyway, and the added DOF from stopping down should cover any focus shift issues.
Here is an article about focus shift.
What is Focus Shift?
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Brad has still not published his final review of the 4002.8S but he kept posting some tidbits every now and then. The latest and most comprehensive one is an article that came up about a week back on the section "stuff i use". He talks about 400/600 and 800 lenses in greater detail.
"Lenses & Teleconverters I'm Currently Using"
http://www.naturalart.ca/artist/cameragear2.html#:~:text=2.-,Lenses & Teleconverters I'm Currently Using,-Post Date: