GerardFor
New member
Jan is normally a Canon shooter, but I find his reviews to be unbiased and informative. His auto focus setup is definitely worth a look.
A Professional Bird photographers (Jan Wegener) review and AF setup of the Z9
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arbitrage
Well-known member
That was a very interesting video and I think his way of using the "handoff" setup is unique and I can't recall reading anyone else operating it in that way. He is leaving shutter button AF on with a Custom Wide Area assigned to it but is not engaging AF with the shutter button (or only rarely). Allowing the restricted area of the Custom Wide Area to search for the subject/eye and then only engaging AF with the AF-ON button set to 3D. Essentially doing the Wide Area to 3D handoff (with focus point persistence turned ON) as so many Z9 shooters do, but not actually using shutter button half press AF.
abc123brian
Well-known member
I haven‘t seen it mentioned before either. I saw his video yesterday and tried that method last night and it seemed to work well. I’ll need to try it for a while to what I think overall.
I don't think there's any functional difference vs half pressing the shutter. Just his personal preference to do it that way. And of course he can tout it as something new/different.
KP Birder
Active member
I have a question regarding setting the Custom Wide areas…if you set one up in DX mode, how much area does it cover in FX mode? I ask because I set up my C1 to the max 19x11 while in DX mode. When I switch to Fx mode, it only covers that DX area. If I did the reverse (set it up in FX mode) would it cover the whole image area as he shows in the video?
Jan is one of my favorite photographers on YouTube. I really like his balanced and objective reviews. And his images and colors always look great!
I don’t understand what is new about his Z9 AF setup. As far as I can tell, he’s suggesting the hybrid AF hand-off, that I first saw described by Hudson Henry. That is, use an Area-AF mode as your basic AF mode activated by the shutter button to acquire your subject, then hand the subject off to 3D tracking and AF-ON (on the AF-ON button).
I thought Jan might be doing something different because he refers to preferring ‘a single button’. He doesn’t really tell us in the video what his settings are. My Z9 doesn’t activate Area-AF unless a6:AF Activation is set to Shutter/AF-ON. Then with a7: Focus Point Persistence set to Auto, hand-off to the AF-ON button with AF Mode is possible.
In his reply to a question from Hank Dinardo –
“..Using the front AF with C-1 19X11 and assigning the back button to 3D Tracking. The larger AF box helps plenty. My question is how do you set the Front AF button to C1?”
He says, “If the shutter button is activated whichever base AF mode you chose will be assigned to it. ..”
That’s how I setup my Z9 after hearing Hudson Henry’s description of ‘hybrid AF’. I don’t know if Hudson originated the idea or not? What am I missing?
I don’t understand what is new about his Z9 AF setup. As far as I can tell, he’s suggesting the hybrid AF hand-off, that I first saw described by Hudson Henry. That is, use an Area-AF mode as your basic AF mode activated by the shutter button to acquire your subject, then hand the subject off to 3D tracking and AF-ON (on the AF-ON button).
I thought Jan might be doing something different because he refers to preferring ‘a single button’. He doesn’t really tell us in the video what his settings are. My Z9 doesn’t activate Area-AF unless a6:AF Activation is set to Shutter/AF-ON. Then with a7: Focus Point Persistence set to Auto, hand-off to the AF-ON button with AF Mode is possible.
In his reply to a question from Hank Dinardo –
“..Using the front AF with C-1 19X11 and assigning the back button to 3D Tracking. The larger AF box helps plenty. My question is how do you set the Front AF button to C1?”
He says, “If the shutter button is activated whichever base AF mode you chose will be assigned to it. ..”
That’s how I setup my Z9 after hearing Hudson Henry’s description of ‘hybrid AF’. I don’t know if Hudson originated the idea or not? What am I missing?
arbitrage
Well-known member
That is true. But I don't think the largest Wide Area covers the entire sensor.
I guess the alternative is to use Auto AF which should look over the entire sensor. But I think Wide Area as large as possible is just better at this than Auto AF. Not sure why though.
arbitrage
Well-known member
The only difference as I understood it in the video is that he isn't engaging the half press of the shutter. Most people using the hybrid handoff engage AF with the half press of the shutter, may even fire a few frames, and then hand over to the AF-ON button set to 3D. Jan is not engaging AF with the shutter. He just allows the camera to search in the background and recognize the subject if it can and then engages AF with AF-ON set to (AFAreaMode+AFON) in 3D. While holding AF-ON he fires the shutter using 3D mode.
arbitrage
Well-known member
I don't think it would make any difference. 19x11 doesn't cover the entire sensor in FX mode. Only Auto AF will search the entire sensor.
He has a6 set to AF-ON only, and Wide-Area assigned to it, so it’ll detect a subject in the area even though AF isn’t engaged. Then, he hands-off to the AF-ON button, which he has set to 3D. That’s what he means by “one button to AF”.
I’m trying this setup out now, and it works, but I have to adjust muscle memory. You have to assign Single Point or similar to one of the Fn buttons to “unstuck” the AF when it goes to the background, or you need precision AF when getting into the “neighborhood” so that the Wide-area AF can detect the subject.
I don’t know, it’s kinda iffy at times, sometimes the handoff doesn’t quite work, and the camera will drift off target. Could just be I need more time with it.
When I change my settings for a6 to AF-ON only, the Area-AF Custom choice does not activate on its own. As Jan says, “If the shutter button is activated whichever base AF mode you chose will be assigned to it. ..”
Right, so you assign the Wide Area Large to it, and even though AF doesn’t activate, Subject Detect is still active and will detect when a bird is in the rectangle. Then, you hit AF-ON, and 3D takes over.
The biggest issue is that subject detection will not find a subject that grossly out of focus. You can stick the Wide AF area over the subject all day long, but if it's not somewhat recognizable, that little trick fails. Of course, you can focus with Wide and let off over and over until you're ready to engage 3D, but that seems like extra steps for no real gain. In my mind (and experience), it's easier to just focus on the target with wide and engage 3D if you want to track. I think this is solving a problem that no one really has. (Or trading one problem for another.)
arbitrage
Well-known member
Are you sure he has a6 set to AF-ON only? Wouldn't he need to have shutter AF active in order for the shutter to use the default AF mode (in this case Wide Area Custom 11x19)?
Are you saying that even though no button is assigned to activate the default AF mode (which would be the case if a6 is set to AF-ON only and the AF-ON button was set to AFON+AreaMode for 3D) that the camera still just runs the default AF mode in the background with no way to actually engage it on the camera?
If so that is really interesting and something I never thought the camera's FW would allow.
Exactly what I experienced with it, you have to have another AF mode programmed to one of the front Fn buttons (Single Point, Dynamic, etc) that gets you onto the bird if you’re far OOF, then the Wide Area starts detecting the bird, and then you hand off to 3D.
It’s tripping me up knowing when to use that front Fn button, it adds another extraneous movement that could cause enough uncertainty to delay getting on-focus and missing a quick subject. Thinking some practice would have me fluid with it in no time, but…
I like using the shutter button for AF, along with the AF-ON button, so I’ll probably revert back
It’s tripping me up knowing when to use that front Fn button, it adds another extraneous movement that could cause enough uncertainty to delay getting on-focus and missing a quick subject. Thinking some practice would have me fluid with it in no time, but…
I like using the shutter button for AF, along with the AF-ON button, so I’ll probably revert back
Luckily he has transcript engaged to clear things up:
so I went to the menu and selected the
7:08
largest possible wide area custom with
7:10
tracking and assigned that to the
7:12
shutter button so whenever I have
7:14
pressed the shutter button I will engage
7:16
the wide area custom with tracking
7:18
however I'm not planning on actually
7:21
engaging any tracking via the shutter
7:23
button at all I'm just using the wide
7:26
area custom to find a subject for me
7:28
because it can do it by itself whenever
7:31
there's a subject in your viewfinder and
7:33
you move the custom area near that
7:35
subject the camera will automatically
7:37
find the subject and put a little gray
7:39
box around it which is fantastic because
7:41
the 3D tracking now will not start to
7:44
track from the center of the custom area
7:46
like what it normally would do but
7:49
instead because the custom area has
7:51
already acquired a Target it will start
7:53
tracking from that spot which is right
7:55
on the bird
7:57
so now instead of having to half press
7:59
the front shutter button to acquire the
8:01
Target and check the target with the
8:03
wide area custom I can simply just press
8:06
the AF on button on the rear of the
8:08
camera and it will start tracking from
8:10
this exact spot allowing me to simply
8:13
just focus with the one button instead
8:15
of having to use the two buttons
8:17
so whenever I see a bird I'll point the
8:20
camera on it I let the white area custom
8:22
find a bird put a little gray box around
8:25
it and then I press the Avon button on
8:27
the back of the camera activating the 3D
8:29
tracking and it will track the bird all
8:31
over my viewfinder using the camera that
8:34
way has definitely made my life a lot
8:36
easier
so I went to the menu and selected the
7:08
largest possible wide area custom with
7:10
tracking and assigned that to the
7:12
shutter button so whenever I have
7:14
pressed the shutter button I will engage
7:16
the wide area custom with tracking
7:18
however I'm not planning on actually
7:21
engaging any tracking via the shutter
7:23
button at all I'm just using the wide
7:26
area custom to find a subject for me
7:28
because it can do it by itself whenever
7:31
there's a subject in your viewfinder and
7:33
you move the custom area near that
7:35
subject the camera will automatically
7:37
find the subject and put a little gray
7:39
box around it which is fantastic because
7:41
the 3D tracking now will not start to
7:44
track from the center of the custom area
7:46
like what it normally would do but
7:49
instead because the custom area has
7:51
already acquired a Target it will start
7:53
tracking from that spot which is right
7:55
on the bird
7:57
so now instead of having to half press
7:59
the front shutter button to acquire the
8:01
Target and check the target with the
8:03
wide area custom I can simply just press
8:06
the AF on button on the rear of the
8:08
camera and it will start tracking from
8:10
this exact spot allowing me to simply
8:13
just focus with the one button instead
8:15
of having to use the two buttons
8:17
so whenever I see a bird I'll point the
8:20
camera on it I let the white area custom
8:22
find a bird put a little gray box around
8:25
it and then I press the Avon button on
8:27
the back of the camera activating the 3D
8:29
tracking and it will track the bird all
8:31
over my viewfinder using the camera that
8:34
way has definitely made my life a lot
8:36
easier
Yes; a6 is set to “AF-ON only”, and the main “AF-area mode/Subject detection” is set to “Wide-C1”.
AF-ON button is set to “AF-area mode + AF-ON”, with 3D.
When the camera is sitting there, with no buttons pressed, the Wide-C1 box is visible, and if you happen to have a bird near to the plane of focus, the Subject Detect will light up and put a box on the bird. Half-pressing the shutter will not do anything. Once Subject Detect has a square on the bird, you then hit the AF-ON button, and 3D takes the hand-off.
My challenge with this setup now is one of muscle memory causing me to mash the Shutter button trying to engage AF, and then nothing happens, as I’ve gotten used to having a custom 1x1 set on the shutter button for the past 9 months.
Last edited:
abc123brian
Well-known member
He states he has AF on the shutter button and it can be seen in the transcript shared above. He is not first half pressing the shutter before engaging 3D tracking, but just letting the camera find the subject first.
Rjdane2
Active member
I agree with Steve, this is not really necessary. I use wide area for my birds in flight and osprey/eagles diving and it works the best. I have tried 3d and auto mode but once you hit a busy background sometimes your beat but if you have it narrowed down to just the area inside the.l wide area box you have better chance of it not jumping. If it’s a clear background that’s a different story. I like wide area on af-on and single on fn1 and 3d on fn2 I’ll use that when something is perched and close where the wide area box is off the head. to me I can lock onto the eye and recompose.
Today I tried the method posted above the problem is even tho the custom large area will track it would automatically stay focused unless you hit the button anyway. There was a bald eagle approaching the water to grab a fish kinda far out and that large area could not find the eagle at all and then when I hit afon with 3d nothing was grabbing it. Now if I had my normal af modes wide area it may have taken a second to grab him but would have worked due to the box hitting the water and making the eagle somewhat in focus then locking on him.
This might work for up close small animals but now my style.
Today I tried the method posted above the problem is even tho the custom large area will track it would automatically stay focused unless you hit the button anyway. There was a bald eagle approaching the water to grab a fish kinda far out and that large area could not find the eagle at all and then when I hit afon with 3d nothing was grabbing it. Now if I had my normal af modes wide area it may have taken a second to grab him but would have worked due to the box hitting the water and making the eagle somewhat in focus then locking on him.
This might work for up close small animals but now my style.
You’re right, he is. I’m not having shutter activate AF. Same intent though, except Jan’s way would give the option to have AF on the half-press. That’s cool, but in that case I’d just go back to how I was doing it in the first place (which I probably will, since I had no issues with it).
Robert S
Well-known member
I use Canon gear because that's how I got back into 35mm film back in 1997. Yan Wegener provides a lot of useful information as do others in respect to how to set up Canon gear. I don't think it would be that difficult to incorporate in the latest bodies an option that can be used to set up the camera in accordance with best practice of top expert photographers of wildlife. An example would be "go to menu, select 6, press button X." '6' would be the preferred setup for the particular body by a range of experts for certain situations. All I have to do then is decide [ by looking at the images they create ] which expert I want to emulate. Once I have set the body to '6' I go out and take photographs.
I find that all too often chit chat rooms become similar to 'learn to swim by correspondence, Why get wet when you can buy our online tuition'.
Only five weeks and I am off to Darwin for a couple of weeks. I will press the button that resets the camera and set things up as per Jan Wegener for bird photography prior to heading off. While in Darwin I will leave the thing alone and photograph birds.
Hopefully I will get a few decent images. Coming here and looking at the photos has given me lots of ideas. One thing I will not be doing is trying to capture swallows in flight. This has nothing to do with camera settings, lens choice, etc. it has to do with me being an older type amateur photographer with enough sense to know my limitations.
If I win blotto before the end of the year I will book in for one Steve's trips to Costa Rica and stay an extra month or two.
I find that all too often chit chat rooms become similar to 'learn to swim by correspondence, Why get wet when you can buy our online tuition'.
Only five weeks and I am off to Darwin for a couple of weeks. I will press the button that resets the camera and set things up as per Jan Wegener for bird photography prior to heading off. While in Darwin I will leave the thing alone and photograph birds.
Hopefully I will get a few decent images. Coming here and looking at the photos has given me lots of ideas. One thing I will not be doing is trying to capture swallows in flight. This has nothing to do with camera settings, lens choice, etc. it has to do with me being an older type amateur photographer with enough sense to know my limitations.
If I win blotto before the end of the year I will book in for one Steve's trips to Costa Rica and stay an extra month or two.
I enjoyed it as well. He’s a small channel but very informative.
His method doesnt really make sense..... why not just activate AF with the shutter button. He acts as though half pressing is doing something with his index finger that he wouldnt already be doing. I mean, if hes planning on taking a photo hes going to press that button anyway lol
Garfield
Well-known member
This is my take-away. Jan shoots in a rich birding environment and seems to be able to get relatively close so the birds are always reasonably large in the frame which is required for his method to work. Around here it's rare to be able to get close enough for the camera to pick up the bird using custom wide unless it's against the sky.