ai or z9

[barb rumer]

couldnt find discussion on this on your posts (if so guide me) i am a 15 yr nikon user - lots of lens including 500mm 5.6 (recently sold my 500 f/4) trying to decide between ai and z9 to go mirrorless (and to get the eye focus feature) i could go d9 and still use most of my lens with an adapter : however, you have heard this before - the z9 is as heavy as my D5 (which I sold bc it was so heavy... I am 5 ft tall and don't have the leverage of you big guys) but going to a1 - i have all those lens issues and I haven't seen anything about adapters for nikon lens w/sony - it is the common problem - just wondering about advice from all you mirrorless people who made the transition

 

[John Navitsky]

i know you’ll get conflicting feedback, but i found the grip on the a1 uncomfortable after a hard day’s use. for me, i’d end up putting a grip on it to mitigate.

things i didn’t like about the ergos:

no place for my pinky, so i had less of my hand on the grip, so more forces on the fingers that were there

the notch in the grip put a lot of pressure on my finger so my finger was sore and visibly red

i think the grip isn’t as deep, so a bit leas to grab on

this is with using the 100-400 hand held for around four to five hours

that said, you’ll get folks that will tell you the ergos work better for them, so ymmv

 

[John Woodworth]

I think if you have an investment in Nikon glass, you should seriously consider the Z9.

There is a weight and size penalty depending on the alternatives you are considering, but I note that the Z9 with a Z24-70mm f2.8S lens weighs within a few grams of my D810 with its equivalent 24-70mm. When I switch back to my Z7ii with a long lens, for example, I miss the grip of the Z9. If you are using long lenses, as your OP suggests, then the incremental weight increase is not that great and the package as a whole balances better.

The Z9 is lighter and smaller than the D5.

 

[abc123brian]

A1 + 200-600mm weighs approximately the same as Z9 + 500mm PF so making a choice on weight alone is not the best idea if you are looking at long lenses. I'd recommend looking at other parts of the system and seeing what makes the most sense for you personally. Not sure what lens issues you are referring but adapting lenses of the same brand such as F to Z works a lot better than trying to adapt across brands. Check out the lens roadmap and compare that to what Sony offers and see what looks like it is going to work best for you. Also, maybe try renting if you can.

 

[bleirer]

If you are going to orphan the Nikon glass, you might as well check out Canon's ergonomics. If you don't need big megapixels the R3 might be worth a peek.

 

[Andy Work]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[jeffnles1]

At the risk of being a contrarian I would ask what is it your current gear cannot do for you or what is it you want the mirrorless to do differently?

I won't get into the weeds of the differences, you already know and understand those I'm sure. But whenever making a major purchase decision, I always ask myself what is it my current stuff doesn't do or what do I want the new stuff to do.

Although nowhere near the money of a new camera system, I just bought a new bass guitar. The bass I've been playing for the past 15 or so years weighs about 10 pounds (Les Paul Bass for those who know what I'm talking about). It plays and sounds great, but it is heavy and the scale length is long. I just bought an acoustic bass. It does 3 things my old one doesn't do. 1) my back does not hurt after a couple hours playing it, My aging arthritic hands appreciate the smaller neck and shorter scale length, 3) I can play it at acoustic gigs where the electric is kind of frowned upon.

OK, nothing to do with cameras but the thought process should be the ame.

Jeff

 

[arbitrage]

Adapting long Nikon lens to Sony is pointless...really poor performance. So if you really were going to go A1 then you'd need to just sell all Nikon lenses and make sure there are ones you'd be happy with in Sony land.

I think that you should just go for Z9. Adapting works very well (although there are some improvements being reported with native Z lenses compared to adapted). Z9 has excellent Bird Eye AF. Every bit as snappy as the A1 and it works more often for BIF. I personally still prefer the A1 AF and ergonomics overall but the Z9 is in the same ballpark now. I only find the A1 comfortable with a battery grip if shooting long lenses. I find it okay without the grip if out with my 24-70 or likewise. But an A1 with battery grip fits my hand better and was actually more comfortable than the Z9...of course everyone is going to be different when it comes to grip size, shape and hand size.

 

[FB101]

couldnt find discussion on this on your posts (if so guide me) i am a 15 yr nikon user - lots of lens including 500mm 5.6 (recently sold my 500 f/4) trying to decide between ai and z9 to go mirrorless (and to get the eye focus feature) i could go d9 and still use most of my lens with an adapter : however, you have heard this before - the z9 is as heavy as my D5 (which I sold bc it was so heavy... I am 5 ft tall and don't have the leverage of you big guys) but going to a1 - i have all those lens issues and I haven't seen anything about adapters for nikon lens w/sony - it is the common problem - just wondering about advice from all you mirrorless people who made the transition

‘There are no reliable Nikon to Sony adapters so you’ll either need to go with a Nikon body to use your lenses or sell them.

‘You did not mention what and how you shoot primarily which is a factor on deciding what camera is best for you.

‘As others pointed out, an A1 + grip + batteries + 200-600 brings no weight advantage over Z9+500pf so if that’s your main goal, reducing weight then you need to use the A1 without grip, and that doesn’t feel comfortable for everybody so you should handle it first (I love the A1 with grip but ungripped is kind of awkward I find).

The reason for asking what and how you shoot is that maybe a z7ii is a good temporary option until there is a trickle down version of the Z9 - the z7ii does a lot of things very well so depending on what you prioritize it might hold you over just fine. If you want the very best eye and subject tracking for active photography, then probably not.

‘’’If you are leaving Nikon then don’t rule out canon, go try them out; the R3 and even R5 have a lot to offer, and I find the R5 without grip more comfortable than the A1 without grip (but obviously the A1 viewfinder experience is altogether far superior).

Truth is, unless you go with one of the flagships, there will be compromises. You need to decide what compromise you can better live with. And if you go with the flagships, there are still compromises, of a different nature.

 

[Ltgk20]

I like the a1 (I prefer to have my pinky hanging off). However, I think the real question is lenses, both from a short and long term perspective. Right now the a1 is lighter, has a large selection of native glass, and the big glass is competitively light, but Sony has no equivalent to the 500pf. The z9 is heavy, the native lens selection is smaller, but there is the 500pf and it will drive your existing lenses. In the short term continuing to use your Nikon glass is tempting. In the long term, if weight is a concern, I believe the Sony will continue to have the advantage. Their bodies are smaller and lighter and I suspect it is more likely that Sony will make a light 500 than Nikon will make a light, top tier body (though both possibilities exist).

 

[John Navitsky]

i think a smaller but performant nikon body is almost a sure thing, but that doesn’t help in the short term

 

[Woody Meristem]

I'll be the odd man out and recommend that you take a long hard look at the Olympus E-M1 iii or E-M1X and either the 100-400mm (200-800mm FF equivalent) lens or the 150-400mm (300-800mm FF equivalent) lens, any of the these in combination would be lighter and less expensive than either Nikon or Sony. Take a look at this post for sample photos -- https://smallsensorphotography.com/rediscovered-moments#more-33026

 

[Icarus]

Being a woman and old, once I knew the Z9 would be a large heavy gripped camera, I lost interest. I opted for the a1. That said, I wish Sony had glass like the 300 and 500 PFs. I loved those two lenses. I have the 70-200 f2.8 mark 2 and the 200-600. I find both to be positively excellent, just prefer primes. If Nikon came out with a lighter weight camera with ALL the benefits of the a1/Z9, I might switch back. Time will tell. For now, I'm a happy camper.

 

[John Navitsky]

for the sony you could consider the 100-400. i think it's like 1.5lbs lighter than the 200-600

 

[Mark Garfinkel]

See if you can rent the Sony A1, then rent a Z9. Try before you buy and do a cost analysis. I found myself so invested in my Nikon glass, at the end of the day, it made more sense to stay with Nikon.

 

[eaj101]

I'm going to agree with Woody that, if size and weight are your main concern, you should check out Olympus. I shoot both Nikon full-frame (DSLR and mirrorless) and Olympus and switch back and forth. Depending on your photographic goals, of course. My Nikon 600mm+D850is @16 lbs. My Olympus equivalent is under five lbs. For wildlife, I grab the Nikons when I'm going for maximum print size and portability isn't an issue, but if print size isn't critical (basically 16x20 or less) I take the Olympus. If I'm shooting landscapes the size/weight difference is much less and I take the Z7 or D850.

 

[Steve W]

i know you’ll get conflicting feedback, but i found the grip on the a1 uncomfortable after a hard day’s use. for me, i’d end up putting a grip on it to mitigate.

things i didn’t like about the ergos:

no place for my pinky, so i had less of my hand on the grip, so more forces on the fingers that were there

the notch in the grip put a lot of pressure on my finger so my finger was sore and visibly red

i think the grip isn’t as deep, so a bit leas to grab on

this is with using the 100-400 hand held for around four to five hours

that said, you’ll get folks that will tell you the ergos work better for them, so ymmv

It’s interesting that you mention ergonomics. We’re often blinded by specs and put up with something that just doesn’t feel right. As good as it was, the D750 just never felt right so I passed it over. You spend a lot of hours with camera in hand so it needs to be comfortable.

 

[JAS]

I find the best way is to get the cameras in your hands with a lens attached and find out what feels the best and has the best ergonomics for you. I love my Z6 and older D750, but my recently added D850 is the best for my large hands given the button placement and grip sizes (I have overly large hands). Weight matters but a lighter camera that doen't fit your hand may be worse than a heavier one that is comfortable to shoot with. I am practicing mightily with the Z6 and some longer glass to get better at handling the camera and will have to decide if my next purchase will be a Z7ii/iii or a Z9 based on that handling. Adding a grip to either the Sony or the smaller Zs does not help because it does not hange the button placement. All of the Sonys are too small and difficult to shoot for me even if they are great cameras. Get your hands on the setups you would plan to shoot and see what works for you.

 

[Maljo]

Wondering the same thing: A1 or Z9? The A1 is available now. I have a lot of Nikon lenses.

 

[KimM]

I just switched from Nikon to Sony for weight (specifically the Nikon 600mm G vs. Sony 600mm GM) and Bird AF capability. I really looked at the Oly but because I still want the ability to print larger, I decided against it for now. As I age, this will probably change.

Having not shot the Z9 (on a list since the beginning but not a NPS member so would still be waiting) I can't comment on that. I was so very sad to sell the 500 pf. However, the 200-600 seems to be just as sharp and will take a 1.4 that many are happy with. Its zoom capability has come in handy already and it doesn't weigh a great deal more than the PF with a gripped A1 body that seems to fit my hand nicely. Frankly, this camera is a game changer coming from D5 and D850 for me....especially BIF. But that's apples to zucchini. I hear that the A1 strength is customization capability (vs Z9) for action and this has also really increased my keeper rate. I like that I can join Sony's professional services to have my gear cleaned and tested in a timely way.

However here are some things that I will miss about Nikon: Sony camera will not do in-camera focus stacking. They don't seem to be as robust as Nikon. There are some questions about performance in extreme weather conditions...so far, the A1 just hummed along in -7 degrees wind chill. I have not been out in the heat yet. And it is said that video isn't as good with Sony. There are no lightweight primes available except the 600mm f4 but this is one stellar lens that I can hand hold and work with all day long with some monopod support and a harness for hiking. And finally, the really ugly...the cost of making a brand switch.

As in all matters of photography, trade offs are the way of life with each of us prioritizing a bit differently. Good look with your decision!

 

[Calson]

If investing in new lenses and starting from scratch I would probably go with the Canon R5 camera and Canon mirrorless lenses of which there are more options. But I rely heavily on the Nikon 500mm PF and there is nothing like it from Sony or Canon and so I chose to buy a Z9 camera.

Something to consider is that it is less of a problem to have two different cameras if they can share the same battery and charger and memory cards. I get that with a D850 and the MB-D18 grip along with the Z9 camera. I loved using the D3 for 10 hour days with weddings but moved to the much higher resolution D8xx cameras. Now with the Z9 I get the pro body with integrated vertical grip and high resolution and the use of high capacity EN-EL18 batteries.

I would guess that as a smaller person you have smaller hands and you may find the grip of the Z9 uncomfortable. I wear glove in size Large and for me the D750 was a bit on the small size and I preferred the D5 and D850. The Z9 is a tiny bit smaller than the D5 but still comfortable for my hands.

In term of total weight the Z9 with the 500mm PF is considerably lighter than anything similar from Canon or Sony. There is also the option of going with the Z7 II camera. Sometime in 2022 Nikon will be releasing its 800mm PF lens and that along with the 500mm PF could make for a much lighter backpack and I could leave the 600mm f/4 at home and use a monopod in place of a tripod in many circumstances.

 

[Subutai]

If investing in new lenses and starting from scratch I would probably go with the Canon R5 camera and Canon mirrorless lenses of which there are more options. But I rely heavily on the Nikon 500mm PF and there is nothing like it from Sony or Canon and so I chose to buy a Z9 camera.

Something to consider is that it is less of a problem to have two different cameras if they can share the same battery and charger and memory cards. I get that with a D850 and the MB-D18 grip along with the Z9 camera. I loved using the D3 for 10 hour days with weddings but moved to the much higher resolution D8xx cameras. Now with the Z9 I get the pro body with integrated vertical grip and high resolution and the use of high capacity EN-EL18 batteries.

I would guess that as a smaller person you have smaller hands and you may find the grip of the Z9 uncomfortable. I wear glove in size Large and for me the D750 was a bit on the small size and I preferred the D5 and D850. The Z9 is a tiny bit smaller than the D5 but still comfortable for my hands.

In term of total weight the Z9 with the 500mm PF is considerably lighter than anything similar from Canon or Sony. There is also the option of going with the Z7 II camera. Sometime in 2022 Nikon will be releasing its 800mm PF lens and that along with the 500mm PF could make for a much lighter backpack and I could leave the 600mm f/4 at home and use a monopod in place of a tripod in many circumstances.

FWIW, the Z9 with adapter and the 500 PF is actually heavier than the A1 without a grip and the 200-600. The A1 with a grip and the 200-600 is a little heavier, but not by much.

Z9 w/adapter 500pf = 2936 grams and is about 14 inches in length.
A1 w/200-600 = 2852 grams and is about 15 inches in length (w/o hood).

The adapter on the Z9 and the weight of the Z9 itself offsets a lot of the advantages of the PF, but it probably does feel better in the hands than the A1 with the 200-600 due to the weight distribution being closer to the body (for the Z9) vs the A1 (where the weight is further away and on the lens).

That said, the 500 PF still packs down a lot easier vs. the 200-600 which requires more consideration bag-wise.

 

[bleirer]

FWIW, the Z9 with adapter and the 500 PF is actually heavier than the A1 without a grip and the 200-600. The A1 with a grip and the 200-600 is a little heavier, but not by much.

Z9 w/adapter 500pf = 2936 grams and is about 14 inches in length.
A1 w/200-600 = 2852 grams and is about 15 inches in length (w/o hood).

The adapter on the Z9 and the weight of the Z9 itself offsets a lot of the advantages of the PF, but it probably does feel better in the hands than the A1 with the 200-600 due to the weight distribution being closer to the body (for the Z9) vs the A1 (where the weight is further away and on the lens).

That said, the 500 PF still packs down a lot easier vs. the 200-600 which requires more consideration bag-wise.

I don't think I'd notice 3 ounces difference either way, given those weights you posted.

 

[arbitrage]

When I weighed the in use weights of my Z9/500PF/FTZ1 versus my A1/200-600 and A1wBG/200-600, the Z9/500PF was still lighter by about 200g than the A1/200-600 without battery grip. I did have a RolanPro lens coat and aftermarket Wimberley foot on the 200-600. 500PF had a plate on the foot. Everything else was stock. Two CFExpress cards in the Z9 and two SD cards with two batteries in the A1 (one battery without the grip).

I did find that the 500PF lost a little of it's magic when I had to use it with the FTZ...just made it a little more unbalanced. Still it is an easier combo to handhold compared to the A1/200-600. But the 200-600 has other advantages with the zoom range

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[Subutai]

When I weighed the in use weights of my Z9/500PF/FTZ1 versus my A1/200-600 and A1wBG/200-600, the Z9/500PF was still lighter by about 200g than the A1/200-600 without battery grip. I did have a RolanPro lens coat and aftermarket Wimberley foot on the 200-600. Everything else was stock. Two CFExpress cards in the Z9 and two SD cards with two batteries in the A1 (one battery without the grip).

I did find that the 500PF lost a little of it's magic when I had to use it with the FTZ...just made it a little more unbalanced. Still it is an easier combo to handhold compared to the A1/200-600. But the 200-600 has other advantages with the zoom range.

Yeah, happy you mentioned the lens coat and the foot because I was confused for a second. I weighed my setup and got the weights I listed but did not have the Rolan coat on there or a replacement foot. The coat itself is about 130 grams give or take, not sure about the foot but I'd imagine being a bigger foot it might make up the difference so it makes sense.

My setup when I weighed it was the stock setup with no coat and sony foot.