Bald Eagles don’t mind the alaska’s cold weather?
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The difference is really the intent of providing food. Most of the time bird feeders are provided by people with an interest in bords whether or not there is any photography taking place. Tossing fish out from a boat to attract eagles for photos is baiting solely for the purpose of photography, and without photographers would not take place.To take a slightly different slant, is putting up a bird feeder (with seed) or a heated water bath in our backyard during the winter, baiting???
Why is providing seed to song birds okay but salmon (or herring) to eagles not?
Not to be nasty, argumentative, or otherwise obnoxious (though my wife often thinks I am), can someone explain what the difference is between feeding song birds seed vs feeding eagles herring/salmon (or even mice to owls)?
This sums up why feeding/baiting it is such a debate. Because the real argument isn't about what the impact is on the animals. It's about human ethics/morals and the inherent differences. Which means that it's an endless, senseless debate. Many people frame it as being about the animals but there's no hard science behind those arguments. Which means it's about their own opinions.The difference is really the intent of providing food. Most of the time bird feeders are provided by people with an interest in bords whether or not there is any photography taking place. Tossing fish out from a boat to attract eagles for photos is baiting solely for the purpose of photography, and without photographers would not take place...
Years ago, the residents of Dutch Harbor called Bald Eagles "Dutch Harbor Pigeons."I find this whole thing kinda hilarious, honestly. I have a friend who lives in Homer and she says the bald eagles are basically like crows or buzzards up there. Calls them Trash Eagles. She sent me video just this morning of a dozen of them just hanging out at the dump, only hopping a few feet back when someone walks up to drop off their trash, then coming right back. They hang out on fences, they wander around the spit. Seems like the real challenge is just finding a place where it looks more natural and less like a trash picker.
While I'm generally a hands-off sort of person when it comes to wildlife, in a situation like that, I don't think I'd worry too much about the ethics of baiting them. They're already extremely acclimated to humans. Of course, legality is a separate issue.
There's a lot of other great wildlife opportunities up there, though. She does photography as well and has captured gorgeous shots of moose, owls and more. I'm hoping to finally come up and visit sometime in the next couple years. It looks amazing.
A number of photographers place feeders up to attract birds, especially hummingbirds, and then remove all but a few when they want to photography them. Yes this is good for migrating birds but also enables the photographer. Ditto for water, especially in the desert areas.The difference is really the intent of providing food. Most of the time bird feeders are provided by people with an interest in bords whether or not there is any photography taking place. Tossing fish out from a boat to attract eagles for photos is baiting solely for the purpose of photography, and without photographers would not take place.
In addition, feeding animals non-native food is another distinction related to owls. Even in winter, they feed on specific food that is found in the area. there is no such thing as an Artic White Mouse in the wilds of Minnesota - just farmed mice raised to feed animals or for scientific work - mice that have never been faced with hunting for food or avoiding predators.
You're right about the lack of proper research on the topic. I've seen a couple of articles about bird feeders - something widely supported - and even then it turns out that the research is species specific and limited to a small area. It turns out that feeders benefit specific species - and the success of those species can crowd out other species or lead to increase in disease in other species.This sums up why feeding/baiting it is such a debate. Because the real argument isn't about what the impact is on the animals. It's about human ethics/morals and the inherent differences. Which means that it's an endless, senseless debate. Many people frame it as being about the animals but there's no hard science behind those arguments. Which means it's about their own opinions.
Ironically there is one bit of hard data about harm to the animals that I've never seen brought up in the debate. It regards fatal consequences of baiting owls. There's no arguing that it kills the mice.
Cold doesn't seem to matter but they follow the food. They mostly vacate interior Alaska due to all of the water freezing over. So no fishing possible. And the waterfowl leave. So two main sources of food are gone. Many of the estimated 3000+ birds that show up for the salmon run in November/December in the Chilkat River are on their way south. Next stop is Washington state for the last salmon runs of the year. Still plenty of birds hang out along the coast and out in the Aleutian Islands.Bald Eagles don’t mind the alaska’s cold weather?
I don't think you could bait them there if you tried. So many salmon for them to eat. It's interesting that they fight over fish when there are so many available.In Haines, Alaska in November the last Salmon run is in the Chilkat River. That is along the Chilkat Bald Eagle Preserve. As I said I photograph the eagles along that preserve. The river does not freeze in November. You do not need bait along that Preserve so a lot of eagles are there.They will fight each other for a fish or many will sit on a branch.
Hello. I don't live in Alaska any longer but was a permanent resident for 20 years while in the service. Here is my eagle advice.So… I’m interested in a Bald Eagle guided photography trip to Alaska, and have been researching trips to Homer and to Haines.
I contacted a guide that is located near me, that supports guided trips to Homer. I reached out to the individual and the leader discussed some of the aspects of the trip. The photography is done in a boat off of the Homer Spit, and entices the Bald Eagles by throwing herring into the water near the boat. That raised a red flag for me.
I know that Homer enacted a law prohibiting the “baiting” to attract eagles, after the passing of Ms. Keane (the Eagle Lady). So it would appear that this guide service is getting around that be being on a boat.
I bring this up as I have yet to participate in a guided trip such as this. My initial reaction is that this is simply baiting and something to avoid. But I don’t know if this is the norm for these trips in Alaska. I know that this can be a hot button, but I don’t know. So I bring this up here to ask individuals on the forum more experienced than myself. So is throwing herring (or other types of baiting) a typical practice or an outlier? Like I said, my initial reaction is to not use this guide service, but am I being too critical?
Eric, you are absolutely correct about owls and non native food etc. Your point is very well taken given that almost everything that is caught fishing where I currently live is an invasive species that came from somewhere else in the seachest or hold of a foreign ship entering the Great Lakes. Jumping carp, gobis, zebra muscles and algae bloom are just an average day on the water and all fit what you describe to one degree or another. They all came here from someplace else. Oh yeah, I almost forgot sparrows and starlings the two most invasive species in America.The difference is really the intent of providing food. Most of the time bird feeders are provided by people with an interest in bords whether or not there is any photography taking place. Tossing fish out from a boat to attract eagles for photos is baiting solely for the purpose of photography, and without photographers would not take place.
In addition, feeding animals non-native food is another distinction related to owls. Even in winter, they feed on specific food that is found in the area. there is no such thing as an Artic White Mouse in the wilds of Minnesota - just farmed mice raised to feed animals or for scientific work - mice that have never been faced with hunting for food or avoiding predators.
Case in point...a visitor to my suburban front yard a few hours ago. I have peregrines that hang out in my arbor vitae and kestrels hanging out on my tv antenna regularly waiting to ambush my feeders. Whenever I hear an especially loud thump on my picture window on a really reflective sunny day it's usually a redtail or peregrine who paid too much attention to the bird it was chasing and didn't see all the UV safety warning decals on the window.You're right about the lack of proper research on the topic. I've seen a couple of articles about bird feeders - something widely supported - and even then it turns out that the research is species specific and limited to a small area. It turns out that feeders benefit specific species - and the success of those species can crowd out other species or lead to increase in disease in other species.
Many animal species are remarkably adaptable. Look at peregrine falcons. We find that they are perfectly comfortable nesting on high rise buildings in cities and feeding on slow, fat pigeons as they raise their young. Coyotes are found in most large cities - feeding mainly on rats and other rodents.
Bob, when I started this thread, it certainly was not my intent to criticize any individuals or groups, and if I did I apologize. And I did not intend on running down the feeding/baiting rabbit hole. Having never been on a guided photography trip, I admit that I have little to no knowledge of what is the ”norm” for eagle trips to Alaska, hence my question. I just know that here in Arizona that the subject of feeding to attract wildlife can take on a different perspective.Eric, you are absolutely correct about owls and non native food etc. Your point is very well taken given that almost everything that is caught fishing where I currently live is an invasive species that came from somewhere else in the seachest or hold of a foreign ship entering the Great Lakes. Jumping carp, gobis, zebra muscles and algae bloom are just an average day on the water and all fit what you describe to one degree or another. They all came here from someplace else. Oh yeah, I almost forgot sparrows and starlings the two most invasive species in America.
Forgive me for using your post as springboard to post my last remarks about what I think is a massive nonissue. I really, really apologize about using your post for this. My Alaskan nerve has been jabbed with a sharp poker by this topic. This is not personal against you or anyone else but it's time for a reality check.
Herring are native fish and they are everywhere in Alaska and most of the rest of the oceans. Nobody brings them up from the states to bait eagles with them. When schools of big fish eat little fish the water erupts with the little fish trying to escape. The food chain includes eagles, seagulls and countless other birds and animals attacking herring or shad or whatever from above while the bigger fish eat them from below. It's happens continuously in oceans all over the world. It's part of the cycle of life.
Birds following boats waiting for food is also a normal part of the food cycle and happens all over the world.
When schools of fish are feeding on schools of smaller fish the water surface is alive with bait fish jumping out of the water to escape being eaten. Is throwing a herring into a school of herring to try to get the bird closer to your location unethical. Forget the photography aspect, what if you just cherish watching the elegance of an eagle diving and taking the gift that you just offered it? Is it disrepect or an reverent interaction with nature? If there were no camera involved or fee paid would it be okay if one were watching eagles take their offering and praying for the planet?
I am going to finish and get far away from this topic by putting on my proud Alaskan hat. Even though I no longer live there I will always be a proud Alaskan and consider it my home. I think an education in why Alaskans are Alaskans at this point in the topic might be helpful.
99.99999 percent of all Alaskans reverently respect wildlife of all varieties. Alaskan's reverence for the bald eagle is on a par with a reverence reserved for gods. There's a good chance that a guide taking a photographer on his boat to take pictures may be a Tlingit or Tsimshian or Haida tribal member or related to someone who is.
Next time you look at a totem pay attention to what is the highest feature on the pole. The word Ketchikan means "thundering wings of an eagle" in Tlingit. You will not find totems with dollar signs on top but most will have an eagle with thundering wings at the very top. They have been around longer than any camera but have been painted and idolized for centuries. When someone who worships the eagle throws an eagle a herring they are not disrespecting it or trying to harm the planet in any way.
Don't worry about Alaskans harming or disrespecting the bald eagle. Worry about the disrespectful visitor who was born and raised someplace where trees only exist to be cut down, everyone is afraid of the dark and lives their entire life never seeing the Milky Way stretch across the sky over their homes because of coast to coast street lights destroying the night and nature only exists to be destroyed in the name of progress. Worry about them changing the values of people who already have it right and fouling a pristine world with toxic values.
Not just in Alaska but also places like Africa where the fields look like parking lots with wagon trains of rovers packed with tourists surrounding nearly extinct wildlife taking pictures of other vehicles becasue of the crossfire. The worlds a sad place to be an animal.
I think Alaskans can handle the problem of deciding if it is wise to feed herring to an eagle they probably have named and known since it was hatched to get a closer look at it without people from the lower 48 telling them what's right or wrong. I guarantee that the average Alaskan has far more respect for nature and the bald eagle than most anyone else on the planet. It's a real respect that's existed since their have been native Alaskans.
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I think we can all stop worrying about ANY Alaskan disrespecting or harming bald eagles. If anyone goes there who hasn't already been there I think they'll get my point before they return to whatever world they live in now.
Enough of that...you can take away my soap box and burn it now .
As usual please forgive all the misspellings and typos.