Alternative long lens strategy

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RichF said:
Torn about primes vs zooms. 600TC, 400 F/4.5 and 70-200 is an option but less flexible
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This is what I took the last time I was in Kenya:

Z800 on Z9 #1
180/400 F mount on Z9 #2
24-120 F mount on D6

I made close to 50% of the 28,000 pics with the Z800, and very little use (but it came handy!) to the 24-120mm f/4 VR. Going back in late Dec and this is what I'll bring again.

Here's a link to the album for that trip in case you care having a look: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAGzFC

If you already own the Z180/600, you can very well cover everything with those 2 (Z800 and Z180-600) adding the 24-120 for wide angles and closer animals.

Krgds, Marcelo
 
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RichF said:
I shoot with Z9 and Z8 and my wife shoots with only Z 8. For an upcoming trip to Africa here are some lens combination we are considering. In all cases 24-120 lenses to cover the wide to short telephoto range.

Alternative 1: 180-600 and either 70-180 or 70-200 (plus TC 1.4 Z). Have not testing the 180-600 with 1.4 but heard it is okay

Alternative 2: 180-600, 800 PF, 70-200, TC 1.4Z. Gets 800 and 1100+ covered very well (better IQ). Adds an extra big lens.

Alternative 3. 600 TC and 100-400 w/ TC. 600 TC is big beautiful lens. 100-400 w/ and w/o TC will cover routine shooting, only need 600 TC for far away subjects and small birds. w/ the 100-400 + TC giving me 560, will mostly use the 600 w/ TC which brings me to the next alternative.

Alternative 4. 800 PF and 100-400 w/ TC. Similar to Alt 3 but lighter weight, a bit less flexible but basically covers the same range.

Here are my thought - I would like to hear yours.

Alternative 1. Lightest weight. could replace 70-200 w/ 100-400 to give me fall back in case the 180-600 fails (breaks).

Alternative 2: Not sure how often I will need to get beyond 600. Will try to back the bag to see how well they travel and how heavy.

Alternative 3: WEIGHT. not sure I want to take that much

Alternative 4: Simplified version of Alt 2. Replaces the 70-200 and 180-600 w/ 100-400 w/ TC (140-560).

How about Alternative 999: sell everything and use my phone 🤣
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Rule 1 on long, far away photography trips - Redundancy. Not only a spare camera or more, but at least a backup lens for the most used focal length(s). I aim to carry 2 Z9's, a D6 and ideally D850 with 14-30 fS, 24-120 f4S, 100-400 S or 70-200 f2.8E+TC14 III with 180-400 f4E TC and 800 PF

Your 100-400 (or 70-200 f2.8 with ZTC14) with 180-600 will cover most subjects and cater for 2 photographers. It's good you each have the excellent 24-120 f4. Zooms work better across these ranges IME

I never leave home without a 800 and add the ZTC14. This is not only for the reach but also tight compositions that are otherwise impossible even with a 600.

Collectively, you should be able to carry 100-400 and 180-600, 800 PF and 3 cameras into the cabin. Use photo-waistcoat to carry accessories, TCs and even a Z8

Edited - see these discussions :

Nikkor Telephotos for Wildlife Photography: Choices for the Optimal Mixed F&Z System....

The pending release of the Z9 and 100-400 S and 200-600 Z zooms has made it unavoidable to decide what Nikon gear one keeps and adapts, invests in or trades in. So I thought it timely to share an image (below), which I've been relying on to plan and scheme, in the persisting quest of how to...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com

Nikon's long lens strategy and the kits that will eventually be available

I hope that Nikon has spent considerable time working through which long lens to create. From what we are seeing on the lens road map (reading between the lines) 100-400 S 400 PF S 800 PF S 400 f2.8 w/ TC S 600 F4 w/ TC S 200-600 non-S a short kit might be 70-200 w/ 1.4 makes the range...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com

"Which Nikon telephoto(s)?" for Wildlife Genres: Updated

This question involves an interesting set of factors. The answer(s) depend on one's personal needs, and budget obviously, besides the diversity of subjects and respective conditions. Here's an attempt to sketch out the challenges, and outline where to find resources to help settling final...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
 
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Marcelo_R said:
This is what I took the last time I was in Kenya:

Z800 on Z9 #1
180/400 F mount on Z9 #2
24-120 F mount on D6

I made close to 50% of the 28,000 pics with the Z800, and very little use (but it came handy!) to the 24-120mm f/4 VR. Going back in late Dec and this is what I'll bring again.

Here's a link to the album for that trip in case you care having a look: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAGzFC

If you already own the Z180/600, you can very well cover everything with those 2 (Z800 and Z180-600) adding the 24-120 for wide angles and closer animals.

Krgds, Marcelo
Click to expand...
A beautiful album of pics! Thanks for the useful info.
 
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joe43 said:
I would not skip the Crater. We saw lots of animals in the crater and got some great pictures. And our camp site was close by and afforded some interesting photo ops too.

If I had a 180-600mm lens it would be in my bag for a trip to Tanzania.
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agree. The crater is a great place to visit. Not the easiest place to photograph due to size and limited roads but worth the experience
 
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I try to put together a focal length and frequency of use for any trip being planned. For example I have found that I use a 600mm or longer focal length lens in Costa Rica for about 5% of my shots. With Africa a lot depends on where you go and whether you will be taking pictures from a small boat. I like to have a prime lens and a zoom lens for the most flexibility and the fewest lens changes (including adding or removing a teleconverter).

The ideal lens for me would be the Sigma 60-600mm lens if I shot with a Sony mirrorless camera. At $2,000 it is a bargain.
 
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For me, Alternative 3 is what I use - and LOVE the combination and flexibility. 600mm TC on the Z9 and 100-400 on the Z8. I just grab the lens suited to the subject.
 
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RichF said:
I shoot with Z9 and Z8 and my wife shoots with only Z 8. For an upcoming trip to Africa here are some lens combination we are considering. In all cases 24-120 lenses to cover the wide to short telephoto range.

Alternative 1: 180-600 and either 70-180 or 70-200 (plus TC 1.4 Z). Have not testing the 180-600 with 1.4 but heard it is okay

Alternative 2: 180-600, 800 PF, 70-200, TC 1.4Z. Gets 800 and 1100+ covered very well (better IQ). Adds an extra big lens.

Alternative 3. 600 TC and 100-400 w/ TC. 600 TC is big beautiful lens. 100-400 w/ and w/o TC will cover routine shooting, only need 600 TC for far away subjects and small birds. w/ the 100-400 + TC giving me 560, will mostly use the 600 w/ TC which brings me to the next alternative.

Alternative 4. 800 PF and 100-400 w/ TC. Similar to Alt 3 but lighter weight, a bit less flexible but basically covers the same range.

Here are my thought - I would like to hear yours.

Alternative 1. Lightest weight. could replace 70-200 w/ 100-400 to give me fall back in case the 180-600 fails (breaks).

Alternative 2: Not sure how often I will need to get beyond 600. Will try to back the bag to see how well they travel and how heavy.

Alternative 3: WEIGHT. not sure I want to take that much

Alternative 4: Simplified version of Alt 2. Replaces the 70-200 and 180-600 w/ 100-400 w/ TC (140-560).

How about Alternative 999: sell everything and use my phone 🤣
Click to expand...
I just returned from Kenya and Tanzania. I did not go on a “Photographer's” tour, so my experience may be different than some who post here. Two things to consider: 1) flights on the small aircraft to get you into the Maasai Mara have little space for carry-ones, so you may have to check your gear and hope for the Best; 2) the space availability in the Game Viewing vehicles. The “roads” on the Serengeti and the Mara are rough and the vehicles are “bouncy”… the 100-400 mm fell off my Z8 twice and landed on the vehicle’s floor (my Z8 had gone into Nikon for the “lens mount repair prior to the trip) causing some anxiety about dust and grit getting into the camera.

I took my Z8 and my Z6ll, with the 100-400 and the 24-70, because I’m 79 and that’s all the weight I wanted to carry. The Z8 performed quite well… for more distant subjects I switched to DX mode with nice results. Didn’t use the Z6ll as much as I thought I would because my iPhone was so much handier during the closeup subject shooting and shooting from the Hot Air balloons we ventured on.

Bottom line, take as much gear as you are comfortable with, remembering it is somewhat difficult moving around the “top-open” game drive vehicles, with 4 or 5 other photogs swinging that big glass at the same time 😅
 
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Don'sPhotoStream said:
I just returned from Kenya and Tanzania. I did not go on a “Photographer's” tour, so my experience may be different than some who post here. Two things to consider: 1) flights on the small aircraft to get you into the Maasai Mara have little space for carry-ones, so you may have to check your gear and hope for the Best; 2) the space availability in the Game Viewing vehicles. The “roads” on the Serengeti and the Mara are rough and the vehicles are “bouncy”… the 100-400 mm fell off my Z8 twice and landed on the vehicle’s floor (my Z8 had gone into Nikon for the “lens mount repair prior to the trip) causing some anxiety about dust and grit getting into the camera.

I took my Z8 and my Z6ll, with the 100-400 and the 24-70, because I’m 79 and that’s all the weight I wanted to carry. The Z8 performed quite well… for more distant subjects I switched to DX mode with nice results. Didn’t use the Z6ll as much as I thought I would because my iPhone was so much handier during the closeup subject shooting and shooting from the Hot Air balloons we ventured on.

Bottom line, take as much gear as you are comfortable with, remembering it is somewhat difficult moving around the “top-open” game drive vehicles, with 4 or 5 other photogs swinging that big glass at the same time 😅
Click to expand...
Thanks for the first hand report! Yep a trip with a photographic group would affect things. How about showing us one or two of your favorite pics? I too have taken to using my iPhone for close up photos and scenic shots to spare me from having another lens to take.
 
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Hi, I am just get home from Africa (Zimbabwe, Botswana). We were mostly in the parks (no offroad) and in Mana Pools which is a very special park where you can leave your vehicle and walk without a guide.
I had 100-400 on Z9 and 400/2.8 + 1,4 TC on D850 plus 500PF. Sometimes I switched 100-400 to 70-200/2.8. My partner had 800PF on Z9, 400/4.5 on z8 and 70-180 on Sony AR4.

My observations:

a) 100-400 for the parks is too short, I wish I had 180-600. I make videos and therefore I need a zoom lens. when you switch from photo to video there is a little crop and I need to zoom out a bit. But it was a bit short!

b) 400/2.8 FL is a lens like from the other planet, but it is heavy! After seom days running with it in Chotake Springs by temperature going to +40C I was just out of power and switched to 500PF, rested a day or two and went back to 400/2.8. So, I don't know how people take pictures of birds with 600TC ;-) Well, I also took a few bird-pics with 400/2.8 but only a few. Most birds - with 500PF.

c) I took 24-120 but almost didn't use it. Instead I noticed (again) how good Z 70-200/2.8 is! I use it on f2.8 very often to separate my subject and it worked very well. It has a kind of cryspiness that also 400/2.8 FL has. It works very well for separation one subject from the others, for landscapes and low light. Very recommended.

I took my z30+kit lens 16-50 and used it quite a lot for video (also on gimbal) and landscapes. It is a funny small thing which you can put in your pocket but works really very well. And the kit lens has a very pronouced 3D effect (IMO) I love this conbination, it makes a lot of fun and it brings really good results. My Zimbabwean friends saw it and said they need the same ;-)

I think the combination of 400/4.5 + z8 of my partner is better than mine of 100-400+z9 but as I said for videos I need to have a zoom lens. There is no other option than to switch to 180-600 perhaps. 400/4.5 is an excelletn lens. The other combo of 800+z9 is also great becasue it is well balanced and has an excellent reach, So, my partner was able to get some excellent shots I didn't get. I would not let 800PF at home when going to Africa!

I think you need to have a long lens for the parks where you cannot drive offroad. So, 600TC or 800PF. or 180-600., where 600TC is probably the best quality, 180-600 best versatility and 800 best weight. If you don't make videos then take 600TC. A prime has some kind of restriction vs.zoom but it will develope your creativeness. So, I would take 600TC if I had one ;-) Then I would take either 300PF or 400/4,5 becasue of prime-quality and still good for low light. I would also take 70-200 for lanscape and low light /action / subject separation. And one lens for nightscapes (14-24/2,8)

My other observations: z8 didn't get hot however my z9 did (probably becasue I take videos). If you let cameras on the sun for a short time they get so hot that you cannot even take them. Always have a kind of towel to cover them. The cameras never sucked, never switched off, never had problems. The humans did.

I often switched from photo to video and it worked ok! I didn't need to use ND filter what was good becasue you don't have time to put on and put off the filter. The best filter for that would be a magnetic one, I think. I was going from photo to video all the time by some sightings.

Go light, compact and the best quality lens. If you take primes you will think more about composition, there will be less pictures but they wil be better. Just my opinion. Have a nice trip!
 
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ElenaH said:
Hi, I am just get home from Africa (Zimbabwe, Botswana). We were mostly in the parks (no offroad) and in Mana Pools which is a very special park where you can leave your vehicle and walk without a guide.
I had 100-400 on Z9 and 400/2.8 + 1,4 TC on D850 plus 500PF. Sometimes I switched 100-400 to 70-200/2.8. My partner had 800PF on Z9, 400/4.5 on z8 and 70-180 on Sony AR4.

My observations:

a) 100-400 for the parks is too short, I wish I had 180-600. I make videos and therefore I need a zoom lens. when you switch from photo to video there is a little crop and I need to zoom out a bit. But it was a bit short!

b) 400/2.8 FL is a lens like from the other planet, but it is heavy! After seom days running with it in Chotake Springs by temperature going to +40C I was just out of power and switched to 500PF, rested a day or two and went back to 400/2.8. So, I don't know how people take pictures of birds with 600TC ;-) Well, I also took a few bird-pics with 400/2.8 but only a few. Most birds - with 500PF.

c) I took 24-120 but almost didn't use it. Instead I noticed (again) how good Z 70-200/2.8 is! I use it on f2.8 very often to separate my subject and it worked very well. It has a kind of cryspiness that also 400/2.8 FL has. It works very well for separation one subject from the others, for landscapes and low light. Very recommended.

I took my z30+kit lens 16-50 and used it quite a lot for video (also on gimbal) and landscapes. It is a funny small thing which you can put in your pocket but works really very well. And the kit lens has a very pronouced 3D effect (IMO) I love this conbination, it makes a lot of fun and it brings really good results. My Zimbabwean friends saw it and said they need the same ;-)

I think the combination of 400/4.5 + z8 of my partner is better than mine of 100-400+z9 but as I said for videos I need to have a zoom lens. There is no other option than to switch to 180-600 perhaps. 400/4.5 is an excelletn lens. The other combo of 800+z9 is also great becasue it is well balanced and has an excellent reach, So, my partner was able to get some excellent shots I didn't get. I would not let 800PF at home when going to Africa!

I think you need to have a long lens for the parks where you cannot drive offroad. So, 600TC or 800PF. or 180-600., where 600TC is probably the best quality, 180-600 best versatility and 800 best weight. If you don't make videos then take 600TC. A prime has some kind of restriction vs.zoom but it will develope your creativeness. So, I would take 600TC if I had one ;-) Then I would take either 300PF or 400/4,5 becasue of prime-quality and still good for low light. I would also take 70-200 for lanscape and low light /action / subject separation. And one lens for nightscapes (14-24/2,8)

My other observations: z8 didn't get hot however my z9 did (probably becasue I take videos). If you let cameras on the sun for a short time they get so hot that you cannot even take them. Always have a kind of towel to cover them. The cameras never sucked, never switched off, never had problems. The humans did.

I often switched from photo to video and it worked ok! I didn't need to use ND filter what was good becasue you don't have time to put on and put off the filter. The best filter for that would be a magnetic one, I think. I was going from photo to video all the time by some sightings.

Go light, compact and the best quality lens. If you take primes you will think more about composition, there will be less pictures but they wil be better. Just my opinion. Have a nice trip!
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Thanks Elena for the update on your trip! Assuming my back and knee are willing and I can keep the weight below the limit for the small planes we will take in Tanzania, I am hoping to take my Z800mm. Your write up further motivates me to bring it. Looking forward to seeing some of your videos!
 
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ricardo00 said:
Thanks Elena for the update on your trip! Assuming my back and knee are willing and I can keep the weight below the limit for the small planes we will take in Tanzania, I am hoping to take my Z800mm. Your write up further motivates me to bring it. Looking forward to seeing some of your videos!
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here is one of my short videos from the lat year:
This year we came to the same place (Chitake Springs) and were camping there for 5 nights. We were waiting and waiting... once the lions were there but not the buffs and other time the buffs came but the lions were nowhere. It was very hot and dry and we were afraid that we don't have enough water. So, no shower ... and we were like in a shift - sitting there on the sun and waiting .. and then suddenly running with 400/2.8 FL when you see a cloud of dust (buffalos!). Tse-tse were biting painfully. Actually something was biting you all the time. I had a spray which worked for a couple of hours. I put it on again and again, layer after layer... and no shower allowed. ;-) I think, I could stick some photo-equipment on my body. 😅
On the third day our Zimbabwean friends gave us some water for a shower. ;-) It was a paradise.
The problem was that the action was not there! We were frustrated!! In this case tse-tses seemed even more naughty because there was no reward. If there was some action then I assume I would not even notice them ;-) because of excitement.

Today I cought myself standing in the kitchen with a thought to take a bread with me because it could be stolen :ROFLMAO: Then I thought, Oh, Man! I am not in Africa anymore! :ROFLMAO:
I remember when we came to Mana Pools on Zambezi side the Zimparks accommodation where many things were not working looked like a real luxury to me! There was plenty of water!! There was a bed 😅, a kitchen where you can sit relaxed knowing your food cannot be stolen 😂. You learn to value the simple things and the wildlife which just come to you very close ...

I hope, you will have a more comfortable trip and can concentrate yourself on essentials - the wildlife which will come to you very close!
 
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ElenaH said:
here is one of my short videos from the lat year:
This year we came to the same place (Chitake Springs) and were camping there for 5 nights. We were waiting and waiting... once the lions were there but not the buffs and other time the buffs came but the lions were nowhere. It was very hot and dry and we were afraid that we don't have enough water. So, no shower ... and we were like in a shift - sitting there on the sun and waiting .. and then suddenly running with 400/2.8 FL when you see a cloud of dust (buffalos!). Tse-tse were biting painfully. Actually something was biting you all the time. I had a spray which worked for a couple of hours. I put it on again and again, layer after layer... and no shower allowed. ;-) I think, I could stick some photo-equipment on my body. 😅
On the third day our Zimbabwean friends gave us some water for a shower. ;-) It was a paradise.
The problem was that the action was not there! We were frustrated!! In this case tse-tses seemed even more naughty because there was no reward. If there was some action then I assume I would not even notice them ;-) because of excitement.

Today I cought myself standing in the kitchen with a thought to take a bread with me because it could be stolen :ROFLMAO: Then I thought, Oh, Man! I am not in Africa anymore! :ROFLMAO:
I remember when we came to Mana Pools on Zambezi side the Zimparks accommodation where many things were not working looked like a real luxury to me! There was plenty of water!! There was a bed 😅, a kitchen where you can sit relaxed knowing your food cannot be stolen 😂. You learn to value the simple things and the wildlife which just come to you very close ...

I hope, you will have a more comfortable trip and can concentrate yourself on essentials - the wildlife which will come to you very close!
Click to expand...
Wow sounds like you were really roughing it! Love how the other cape buffalo come to the aid of the one being attacked by a lion. Am worried about the tse-tse flies, what spray do you use? For sure we are going on a much more luxurious trip. Hopefully the wildlife will be good but one never knows how things will go.
 
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ricardo00 said:
Am worried about the tse-tse flies, what spray do you use?
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here is a post I wrote about it in Safaritalk forum: https://www.safaritalk.net/topic/21254-what-helps-against-tsetse-flies/#comments

The most important is on which substance the spray is based. Permethrin as a substance is working very well, but it is for clothes normally and not for skin. It works for about 3 hours, tse-tses doing a big loop around you. and then you need to apply it again.
Icardin as a substance is very good but also will protect you for about 3-4 hours.
Later I found out that substance Saltidin is in "No Bite for sensitive skin" It is a very good product, helps from both (tse-tse and mosquitos) and is nice for your skin.
DEET will not work.
I don't know in which country you are so, you need to look for the products with those substances.
Some people say that Detöl helps but I think it is just too slippery for tse-tses to bite 😅 so, I am not sure about Detöl. Or you wear a zebra-cloth. 😆 But I am not sure if it works either.. I didn't try!
 
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ElenaH said:
here is a post I wrote about it in Safaritalk forum: https://www.safaritalk.net/topic/21254-what-helps-against-tsetse-flies/#comments

The most important is on which substance the spray is based. Permethrin as a substance is working very well, but it is for clothes normally and not for skin. It works for about 3 hours, tse-tses doing a big loop around you. and then you need to apply it again.
Icardin as a substance is very good but also will protect you for about 3-4 hours.
Later I found out that substance Saltidin is in "No Bite for sensitive skin" It is a very good product, helps from both (tse-tse and mosquitos) and is nice for your skin.
DEET will not work.
I don't know in which country you are so, you need to look for the products with those substances.
Some people say that Detöl helps but I think it is just too slippery for tse-tses to bite 😅 so, I am not sure about Detöl. Or you wear a zebra-cloth. 😆 But I am not sure if it works either.. I didn't try!
Click to expand...
Can't seem to see the post in Safaritalk. May have to join? Glad to hear that Permethrin works, we spray our clothes with that.
 
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I tried uploading some of my Kenya and Tanzania pics, but I got a message that the files are too large. You can view my photos on Instagram or Flickr at “Donsphotostream.” I’m still in the process of culling and editing so it will be awhile before all of my Africa shots are posted.
 
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ricardo00 said:
Wow Rich, I am also going to Tanzania, leaving Nov. 1! Still trying to decide about going to the crater. Do you really think it is worth it? The two other people I talked with were discouraging about going there. When are you leaving for Tanzania? Maybe will see you there (haha).
I actually asked my photo guide (Sebastian, who is great) whether it is worth bringing the 800mm lens and he said yes, definitely! So I am in the same situation as you, only want to bring two cameras (unlike you, only have a Z9 and a Z8) and potentially two lenses. My current decision is the 70-180mm plus the 800mm and use the iPhone for the grander scenic photos (wide angles). But you or someone else can convinced me otherwise.
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Are you going with Sebastian Kennenbekt?
 
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RichF said:
We are going a month later. Crater is great. Hard to shoot there due to strict rules about driving off road (enforce is stringent there). Need the extra length there. In the serengetti park vs conservation area, you also need to stay on the road but it is less well patrolled so sometimes guides will risk it. Conservation area anything goes though guides like to stick to the road when possible.

The gap between 70-180 and 800 is dramatic. Unless you want lots of animal-scapes I would bring something to fill in the range, I find I seldom shoot below 200 except for landscape shoots (which could be iphone shots)
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Seems like you will be leaving soon Rich? We got back a week ago. Went with two cameras, my Z8 with the 800mm and the Z9 with my 400mm f/4.5. Occasionally would put the 70-180mm on one of my cameras. Ended up using the 800mm lens the most. Would have used the 70-180mm lens more if I had brought a 3rd camera and left it on that camera. The Z8 did give me a hot card warning at one point when I had been shooting video of a leopard but the camera never stopped working. The highlights of the trip were seeing a mother cheetah moving her cubs to a new place and watching a serval hunt. Sure you will have a great time Rich!
I have posted some video on Youtube and pics on my Flickr site for those interested:


www.flickr.com

Tanzania:2023

Explore this photo album by ricardo00 on Flickr!
www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
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My 2 cents. Take the 600 prime, converter, 100-400 and the 24-105. If you have the 180-600 you could take that in place of the 100-400.

How many bodies? If you will have to change lenses in the field consider dust. The least amount of lens changes the better.
 
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