Am I the only person in the world not using LR & PS?

[Woody Meristem]

I'm another happy PhotoScape user (I prefer PhotoScape 3.7 to the newer PhotoScape X). I don't normally shoot RAW and PhotoScape does most of the post-processing that I need; if more is needed, I use Digital Photo Professional 4 and/or FastStone. If I needed more post-processing or shot RAW, I'd be willing to make a one-time purchase of PS and LR, but I'll be dam-ed if I'll rent software with almost certainly ever escalating monthly payments. For the same reason I now use LibreOffice 7.0 instead of Windows Office for documents, spreadsheets and presentations.

 

[ebflyer]

Patrick,
Thanks for your comment about Affinity. I read some good reviews as well, bought it and struggled with its - to me - counter-intuitive workflow as well. Until now, I thought that I was the only one!
I still use a standalone version of Lightroom as my main processing software. I was intending to use Affinity as an alternative to Photoshop.......and perhaps I still will, but it has a steeper learning curve (cliff?) than other processing software that I've tried.
cheers,
Alex

I have used Affinity for 3 or 4 years. I started using it on an iPad Pro. I recently purchased a 2020 16" MBP and purchased Affinity for that as well. It is not the most intuitive. However, I have watch many of the training tutorials on their site as well as many YouTube channels. I have become very proficient at the editing tools I use most often. Those I don't use, I just refer to a video. To me, it was a small inconvenience for a low onetime purchase cost.

 

[AlexY]

I have used Affinity for 3 or 4 years. I started using it on an iPad Pro. I recently purchased a 2020 16" MBP and purchased Affinity for that as well. It is not the most intuitive. However, I have watch many of the training tutorials on their site as well as many YouTube channels. I have become very proficient at the editing tools I use most often. Those I don't use, I just refer to a video. To me, it was a small inconvenience for a low onetime purchase cost.

You're quite correct - well said! I shouldn't be so negative, to use the obvious pun....
As always, practice, practice, practice...though for some reason, my brain refuses to grasp the Persona concept .
I've also looked at the Anthony Morganti videos about using Affinity which I found helpful:

Best,
Alex

 

[LL4D500]

Thanks Nick - much appreciated. I'll start watching the videos. My frustration with Affinity is mostly due to the fact that I use it so seldom that I can never remember how to save the changes I've made therein and exit back to Lightroom. I need to practice until the program becomes part of my muscle memory and watching (and using) more videos should help.
cheers,
Alex

Steve has two LR books that I would assume would be very helpful after getting/studying three of his books. Thinking of buying those myself. Still got 150 pages to go through on his exposure/metering book.

 

[kimball]

But I think it's a bit of a cop out when pro's sit in front of the latest laptop using LR which lets face it it brilliant and then take the credit for the end result.

With respect, you deeply misunderstand what LR is what and it does. Aside from the auto tone button and applying presets, all of Lightroom's editing tools require informed and educated decisions from the user. It takes significant education in post processing to achieve mastery of Lightroom's develop module, let alone its other modules (this also applies to Photoshop, Capture One, etc). Literally everything is left up to the user's creative vision, and that's a very good thing.

More to the point of your original question: once one has that education, it can fairly easily transfer to any other editing program. There comes a point where post processing isn't about the nuts and bolts of a particular piece of software, but instead it's about your creative vision for your image, and you'll realize you no longer need training in each piece of software because you have a sophisticated mental model of what's possible in post processing that you can apply in any program once you become reasonably familiar with where its controls are located.

Now, if your comment was meant to be less about LR and more about jealousy over "pros" and their "latest laptops" ... well, it's time to face the facts. Your Windows 7 OS was released 11 years ago and was replaced by Windows 8 and then many significant versions of Windows 10. You are running an operating system that even Microsoft says "don't use, we're not providing support or updated any more." You aren't just a year or two behind the times... you are more than a decade behind. Instead of directing derision toward LR and the "pros" for your situation, maybe it really is time to upgrade?

 

[Mr F Stop.]

With respect, you deeply misunderstand what LR is what and it does. Aside from the auto tone button and applying presets, all of Lightroom's editing tools require informed and educated decisions from the user. It takes significant education in post processing to achieve mastery of Lightroom's develop module, let alone its other modules (this also applies to Photoshop, Capture One, etc). Literally everything is left up to the user's creative vision, and that's a very good thing.

More to the point of your original question: once one has that education, it can fairly easily transfer to any other editing program. There comes a point where post processing isn't about the nuts and bolts of a particular piece of software, but instead it's about your creative vision for your image, and you'll realize you no longer need training in each piece of software because you have a sophisticated mental model of what's possible in post processing that you can apply in any program once you become reasonably familiar with where its controls are located.

Now, if your comment was meant to be less about LR and more about jealousy over "pros" and their "latest laptops" ... well, it's time to face the facts. Your Windows 7 OS was released 11 years ago and was replaced by Windows 8 and then many significant versions of Windows 10. You are running an operating system that even Microsoft says "don't use, we're not providing support or updated any more." You aren't just a year or two behind the times... you are more than a decade behind. Instead of directing derision toward LR and the "pros" for your situation, maybe it really is time to upgrade?

Oh dear that was really helpful, but I guess your a pro. Ok to put you straight on a few things. I understand exactly what LR does, it makes editing easier. Applying pre sets takes no skill what so ever, making them of course does. You just keep trying until you get the result you like, notice I did say wanted. LR is light years ahead of most editing systems and therefore makes the job easier. LR will sharpen an image or individual parts of that image like no other editor. But you are missing my point. I want a tutorial about editing not operating sliders that some clever kid has designed to make the job easy. Last point I use the Tough book because I travel on a motorbike in all weathers and it has great battery life and is affordable for me. It had Windows 10 loaded when I got it and I put 7 on so that I can and have run it with no security for 6 years and it never crashed or had a fault. I am not as you imply some poor old man complaining about rich folk I just want a detailed tutorial on editing so I can use any editor and edit my work. So if you have no intention of addressing that simple request please stop being abusive, implying I am some back water hick with a chip on his shoulder about rich folk.

 

[Mr F Stop.]

I'm another happy PhotoScape user (I prefer PhotoScape 3.7 to the newer PhotoScape X). I don't normally shoot RAW and PhotoScape does most of the post-processing that I need; if more is needed, I use Digital Photo Professional 4 and/or FastStone. If I needed more post-processing or shot RAW, I'd be willing to make a one-time purchase of PS and LR, but I'll be dam-ed if I'll rent software with almost certainly ever escalating monthly payments. For the same reason I now use LibreOffice 7.0 instead of Windows Office for documents, spreadsheets and presentations.

Thanks for you input and I agree with everything you have said. I honesty get to a point when editing and think "That'll do pig" Now because I have had no formal training in editing and it's almost impossible to find non specific tuition I can't really do any better than that. I know LR works better because I have it on my mini I pad. It's a reduced vision and free but still blows me away with what it does. I will check out your suggestions, thanks.

 

[Mr F Stop.]

Steve has two LR books that I would assume would be very helpful after getting/studying three of his books. Thinking of buying those myself. Still got 150 pages to go through on his exposure/metering book.

I have all of Steve's books apart from the LR ones. Because I can't or should I say prefer not to run LR at this time. I would just like an editing tutorial which dealt with editing not using a program. If that is even possible these days?

 

[jpturner]

A few years ago, Matt Kloskowski wrote a good piece about editing software becoming commoditized, meaning they all do basically the same thing. Overall, I think he's right (post linked below), with one big exception - for your best work, both DXO PhotoLab and Capture One give (to my eye) a far better RAW conversion than Adobe. If your lens and camera are supported by DXO, PhotoLab's lens corrections are hard to beat. DXO's Prime noise reduction is also sublime. Same with Capture One: more fine detail in fur and feather compared to Adobe, and C1 has the best color controls out there. C1 also has split controls for structure and clarity (and 4 varieties of each) which are helpful for wildlife, and has the ability to apply local adjustments in opacity controlled layers (think of a hybrid between Lightroom and Photoshop). I use and like both products, along with NIK plugins which still give me great results.

The State of Post-Processing and Photo Editing | Matt Kloskowski

mattk.com

 

[jcgamble]

I used to use Lightroom 6, Capture NX-D and Adobe Elements 14 for RAW conversion and processing. Last month I switched to Capture One Pro 20 for Nikon. It was less than $200 for stand alone with all their styles. It is closer to $100 without the styles. I thought I was pretty good at LR with noisy high ISO files. Capture One with automatic correction for your individual model camera is really good. I have gone back and reprocess a lot of my older files and all have been significantly improved. It was easy to learn by watching videos on YouTube and collecting a couple of pdfs for reference. I don't do a lot of processing, and Capture One seems to be a great product for me and I'm expecting a Nikon Z6 II update shortly that will cover all my equipment. Just another option.

 

[kimball]

Oh dear that was really helpful, but I guess your a pro. Ok to put you straight on a few things. I understand exactly what LR does, it makes editing easier. Applying pre sets takes no skill what so ever, making them of course does. You just keep trying until you get the result you like, notice I did say wanted. LR is light years ahead of most editing systems and therefore makes the job easier. LR will sharpen an image or individual parts of that image like no other editor. But you are missing my point. I want a tutorial about editing not operating sliders that some clever kid has designed to make the job easy. Last point I use the Tough book because I travel on a motorbike in all weathers and it has great battery life and is affordable for me. It had Windows 10 loaded when I got it and I put 7 on so that I can and have run it with no security for 6 years and it never crashed or had a fault. I am not as you imply some poor old man complaining about rich folk I just want a detailed tutorial on editing so I can use any editor and edit my work. So if you have no intention of addressing that simple request please stop being abusive, implying I am some back water hick with a chip on his shoulder about rich folk.

With all that impassioned praise for Lightroom coming from you yourself, the answer to your original question is: yes. Yes, you should "get a new laptop and a years subscription to LR."

Regarding wanting a tutorial about editing, not about moving software sliders... I hear you. No tutorial will be 100% software-agnostic, but George Jardine's Lightroom Develop series is much more focused on the underlying "hows and whys" of editing, not just the "here's a cool slider" style of tutorial. When I originally watched his videos I was left with the realization that I was learning not just how to use LR, but actually how to see my photos in a new way so I could better edit them. He also has a more advanced "Image Correction Master Class" followup series. These tutorials were published a number of years ago but remain highly relevant to this day. But unfortunately, they are still certainly LR-based tutorials. If that bothers you, so be it. You simply won't find any editing tutorials that don't actually demonstrate editing with a particular piece of software, and that invariably leads to the video being specific to that piece of software.

Regardless, I see the appeal of a toughbook for traveling with a motorcycle. I just got into riding this year and I'm not sure I'd want to take my current laptop on a long, multi-day trip. Good luck, whatever you decide. Panasonic still makes toughbooks, so I'm sure you could find one that easily runs Lightroom.

 

[Grumpy]

Well, you can add me to the list of people that don't use LR anymore. I had the Adobe subscription for LR and PS until they charged me twice this month and would not refund one of the charges. This was a heated debate over the course of three days. I finally got so frustrated that I told them to stick it and ate the loss. Went back to Capture One 10 and will upgrade to CO 21 shortly. Damn underhanded Adobe can leck mich am Arsch.

 

[Photocat]

Thanks Nick - much appreciated. I'll start watching the videos. My frustration with Affinity is mostly due to the fact that I use it so seldom that I can never remember how to save the changes I've made therein and exit back to Lightroom. I need to practice until the program becomes part of my muscle memory and watching (and using) more videos should help.
cheers,
Alex

I have had Affinity for 3 1/2 years now and I learn new techniques every week. But, I have viewed over 120 videos, practiced, took a couple of course that were comprehensive in nature and used it on my photos. The on line videos really helped. But, as you can imagine, I spent a lot of hours. For me, its ok. I am in no hurry. Its seems to me that this process is typical for most detailed programs. Its been fun.

 

[Rollamok]

I don’t use LR or PS...or even a PC or Mac! I use a iPad Pro with Affinity. It has a lot more power than I use. I have a pretty straightforward process. I use the Apple photo app to weed out all but the most promising images. Then the raw editor in Affinity to adjust lighting, color, noise, etc. I then hit "develop" and do any touch u, or not, with Affinity. Then again, I’m not anything like a pro photographer, I’m just trying to make images my own pleasure.

 

[jl-images]

Hi,

I'm slowly abandoning LR for Capture One.

The results I get are more pleasing (to me anyway).

Also using DPL4 for "noisy pics", the DPL4 "deep prime" treatment is stunning!

 

[abc123brian]

I don’t use LR or PS...or even a PC or Mac! I use a iPad Pro with Affinity. It has a lot more power than I use. I have a pretty straightforward process. I use the Apple photo app to weed out all but the most promising images. Then the raw editor in Affinity to adjust lighting, color, noise, etc. I then hit "develop" and do any touch u, or not, with Affinity. Then again, I’m not anything like a pro photographer, I’m just trying to make images my own pleasure.

I bought Affinity for my iPad this week but haven’t had a chance to look at it yet. Being able to do it all on the iPad is something I was hopeful for about 4 years. I would need to upgrade to one of the newer iPads with USB C to make it easier, but have been waiting for decent photo software and also the new display that we will hopefully see in the first half of next year. It is great to hear that this solution has been working out well for you!

 

[ebflyer]

Affinity works great on the iPad Pro. If you have the pencil, it is very nice to make selections for masks as well as all the brush tools. I have since moved to Affinity on my MBP. There was zero learning curve with the move as the concepts and tools are very similar. However, the display and overall performance is greatly improved. Affinity has all the tools I need as an enthusiast....and some I don't use but know they are there.

 

[abc123brian]

Affinity works great on the iPad Pro. If you have the pencil, it is very nice to make selections for masks as well as all the brush tools. I have since moved to Affinity on my MBP. There was zero learning curve with the move as the concepts and tools are very similar. However, the display and overall performance is greatly improved. Affinity has all the tools I need as an enthusiast....and some I don't use but know they are there.

Thanks for the info. Do you use an external drive on the iPad or just internal storage?

 

[ebflyer]

External...the RAW files were just becoming too large.....another reason for the move to the MBP

 

[Capmike]

Mr.F Stop, No, you are not alone. I have been shooting for 50 years, digital for 20. I have been using Apple computers since 1984. I found IPhoto to be more than adequate, now Photos. I too felt like I was alone shooting JPEG, so gave Raw a run. Side by side, not enough a difference for an amateur like me, and took too much time. I am fairly diligent about deleting second best pics, and my library (digita) now numbers 36,000. Using a variety of albums in Photos, I can find any pic quite easily. I believe the D 850 with the 500 PF is the best money can buy for any wildlife photographer. Ordered both the first day they were available, and now having had to cancel trips to Columbia, Brazil, Australia and New Zealand this year, I have plenty of funds to buy something new and better. Couldn’t find it. I did add the better battery to the grip I already had on the 850, and that was a nice upgrade. I’m 72 now, and really don’t have the interest investing time to learn these photo manipulation software tools. Just take my shot, make it the best I can do.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

850 plus 500PF from 1/4 mile. Maybe raw would be better, but it works for me, very little editing.

Best,
Mike

 

[Madriver1]

I gave up trying to learn LR after spending hours watching videos and more hours of frustration on my lap top. Editing images for a hobby should not be like learning a new language with 10,000 symbols and keystrokes. I tip my hat to anyone who enjoys this challenge, has the ability to master the learning curve and improves images using this program. I found the program Snapseed does all I need and is much more user friendly.

 

[MYount]

I gave up trying to learn LR after spending hours watching videos and more hours of frustration on my lap top. Editing images for a hobby should not be like learning a new language with 10,000 symbols and keystrokes. I tip my hat to anyone who enjoys this challenge, has the ability to master the learning curve and improves images using this program. I found the program Snapseed does all I need and is much more user friendly.

I use Snapseed too at the present time. My significant other took a lot of time and watched a bunch of videos and decided that she what's going to buy me a year's subscription to Lightroom, Photoshop CC and a more powerful laptop as an early Christmas present. I have never even opened either one of these programs. I am going to give it a shot since she went ahead and did that. I have a year to figure it out. So far I haven't even been able to figure out all of what Snapseed can do. I'll keep you posted

 

[Rodamu]

If you can afford it, Photoshop is worth its cost. Lightroom is for proffessionals and others who take and must process thousands of photos. The Bridge subprogram in Photoshop is used to screen and organize photos; the RAW subprogram does good basic editing and conversions. I started with Adobe Elements and that may still be a good choice as a less expensive option to Photoshop; also when I got Elements, Nikon didn't have a good editing program. Seeing how much others were using Lightroom, I bought it but found its only advantage for me was the highly flexible printing setup. It does have several over good features, but I don't use them. Lightroom's editing abilities keep expanding and perhaps it could be used as a stand-along program without Photoshop and that would make Lightroom a good value.

 

[Calson]

I have been forced to switch from a software application many times over the years after they were purchased by Adobe and then shut down. When Adobe cancelled my company's permanent site license for Photoshop CS6 we needed to go with CC which is why Adobe illegally cancelled the license, or another application. I have many Photoshop PSD files that contain layers. Affinity was the only application that could properly import the PSD file and have all the layers intact. That made it an easy choice.

But having worked with Photoshop since Version 1 a lot of the time I invested with learning each new iteration of PS was lost with the move to Affinity. There are many resources and sources for information available for making the move to Affinity.

I tried LR back when I was processing thousands of wedding images each month and I found that it cut my productivity by half as compared to using Photo Mechanic (replaced by the fantastic FastSone Viewer) to do the initial culling and sorting and then running batch actions in Photoshop.

 

[kimball]

If you can afford it, Photoshop is worth its cost. Lightroom is for proffessionals and others who take and must process thousands of photos. The Bridge subprogram in Photoshop is used to screen and organize photos; the RAW subprogram does good basic editing and conversions. I started with Adobe Elements and that may still be a good choice as a less expensive option to Photoshop; also when I got Elements, Nikon didn't have a good editing program. Seeing how much others were using Lightroom, I bought it but found its only advantage for me was the highly flexible printing setup. It does have several over good features, but I don't use them. Lightroom's editing abilities keep expanding and perhaps it could be used as a stand-along program without Photoshop and that would make Lightroom a good value.

Lightroom is not just for those who need to process thousands of photos at once. Lightroom is primarily a well-organized catalog of all of your shots, plus an advanced parametric editor with sophisticated global and local adjustments. This is the real key to Lightroom: editing a photo in Lightroom does not overwrite the original file, and does not require substantially more disk space and cognitive load to store your edits in a separate file, since your edits are just saved as parameters in a tiny database that are automatically applied & displayed when you look at a photo in Lightroom. You only need additional storage when/if you decide to export your edits into a separate image file.

In contrast, if you want to edit a single raw photo in Photoshop and save your edits for later, you must save a separate PSD file which doubles or triples your storage space and quickly becomes unwieldy. Or worse, if you want to edit a JPG in Photoshop, you have to be very careful to not actually overwrite the original JPG, thus risking data loss.

Photoshop is an incredible tool and very powerful, no doubt about it. But because it lacks any serious photo catalog management and is not a parametric editor, it's best reserved for situations where you absolutely cannot achieve your goals in Lightroom. That is a very rare scenario these days. I find it's only when I need content-aware fill.