Are Focus Point Joysticks On the Way Out?

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dabhand16

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With the thread on 'has BBF had its day':

Are people ditching bbf with subject detection?

So just for super clarification for a z8 newbie. If I am using BBF and have another button set to 3D. When I press that 3D button I must hold it in the entire time I want to shoot in 3D? And I only hold that button in and press my shutter button when I take the shot. Yes (in my setup...
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I've had a similar thought about focus joysticks. This began with the release of the Nikon ZF, a camera that I really like given that I have a Fuji XT system. However, Nikon has omitted to put a focus joystick on the camera which I think is a deal breaker for me. Then I started think that with the new AF subject detection systems getting better and better, is there still a need for a joystick?

At the moment I think that yes there is. Plenty of times when an ordinary focus mode will be the best one to use and the joystick is a better way to move the focuse point manually. Also right now focus restraint boxes need to be moved around, but maybe in time and with more development.............

What do you think?
 
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Press the joystick straight in to return the focus point to the centre of the frame.

I use this option repeatedly! Why? For only one reason: to reset the camera to the way it should be after inadvertently moving the focus point somewhere else.

Please give us the option to switch the joystick off!

Less than six hours into 2024 and I'm ranting already!

… David
 
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David Berry said:
Press the joystick straight in to return the focus point to the centre of the frame.

I use this option repeatedly! Why? For only one reason: to reset the camera to the way it should be after inadvertently moving the focus point somewhere else.

Please give us the option to switch the joystick off!

Less than six hours into 2024 and I'm ranting already!

… David
Click to expand...
Rant away David! Your point on the joystick is spot on..👍
 
I still use mine a lot. Sometimes I use my thumb on the glass of the rear screen, but the joystick is more accurate and can be set to sensitivity in the menu.
 
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I use the joystick to position a small focus area all the time with subjects that don't have eyes or distinct bodies to track. Yeah, for a lot of living subjects the tracking is great (assuming there's not too many conflicting live subjects to choose between) but for many other photo applications including landscapes, product photography, architecture, macro and others it's still very handy to place a small focus area right where it should be within the frame.
 
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TurtleCat said:
I use the joystick all the time. I’m usually not in an auto area AF mode so I’m using the joystick a fair amount. I also use it with portraits and landscapes at times.
Click to expand...

Me too, although eye detect is useful for portraits too. There are some situations when none of the advanced detection modes will be right for the shot , groups of people, street photography, crowds of people and landscapes. Also if you are a vintage manual focus lens enthusiast selecting the area or detail you want to punch into is vital.
 
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There are two ways that I use for manual positioning of the focus point:
  1. Viewing image on the rear screen:
    — Drag the focus point to where it should be, or just tap the correct place.
    — In effect, operate your camera as if it were a smartphone.

  2. Viewing image through the viewfinder:
    — Drag the focus point seen in the viewfinder by moving right thumb around the top right quarter of the rear screen.
    — In effect, a corner of the rear screen has been changed into a joystick.
    — If you're ambidextrous, choose a different corner or the whole rear screen!
    — Definitely, mirrorless only!
 
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David Berry said:
There are two ways that I use for manual positioning of the focus point:
  1. Viewing image on the rear screen:
    — Drag the focus point to where it should be, or just tap the correct place.

  2. Viewing image through the viewfinder:
    — Drag the focus point seen in the viewfinder by moving right thumb around the top right quarter of the rear screen.
    — In effect, a corner of the rear screen has been changed into a joystick.
    — If you're ambidextrous, choose a different corner or the whole rear screen!
    — Definitely, mirrorless only!
Click to expand...

I) I like to be able to move the focus point without taking my eye from the camera. I also have to have the touch screen turned off or my nose moves the focus point :(.

2) If you are left eyed like me, this does not work!!
 
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David Berry said:
There are two ways that I use for manual positioning of the focus point:
  1. Viewing image on the rear screen:
    — Drag the focus point to where it should be, or just tap the correct place.

  2. Viewing image through the viewfinder:
    — Drag the focus point seen in the viewfinder by moving right thumb around the top right quarter of the rear screen.
    — In effect, a corner of the rear screen has been changed into a joystick.
    — If you're ambidextrous, choose a different corner or the whole rear screen!
    — Definitely, mirrorless only!
Click to expand...
I'm guessing this is on the ZF? as the touchscreen focus while using EVF method doesn't work on a Z7. That system does seem to work for some people but I am left eye dominant and find that my nose effectively blocks off access to the touchscreen when viewing the EVF. The joystick is far easier to use plus it gives you an additional customisable button in the centre but I agree it should be possible to disable the joystick for those who don't use it as I do regularly seem to inadvertently move focus point from time to time.

I don't think it's ommission is a deal breaker though, I was happy enough using a dpad on the D7100 and D810 cameras I used to own. It's probably not fast enough for action but as subject detection seems to be used more in this instant I think they may start omitting them on future cameras. We might find out shortly if the Z6 appears as everyone expects.
 
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Doug Herr said:
I use the joystick it's to re-center the focus area after it has been inadvertently moved.
Click to expand...
I'm tempted to switch the joystick to 'Off'. That will get rid of the 'inadvertently moved' problem, but the price to pay is losing the essential re-centre option.

I'll go through the 'Customise Buttons' menu and see if there is an unassigned button just begging to be used for re-centring the focus point… the Depth of Field Preview button, perhaps?
 
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David Berry said:
I'm tempted to switch the joystick to 'Off'. That will get rid of the 'inadvertently moved' problem, but the price to pay is losing the essential re-centre option.

I'll go through the 'Customise Buttons' menu and see if there is an unassigned button just begging to be used for re-centring the focus point… the Depth of Field Preview button, perhaps?
Click to expand...
If you hit the "ok" button on nikon (not sure what you use) it recenters the af point by default.
 
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David Berry said:
I'm tempted to switch the joystick to 'Off'. That will get rid of the 'inadvertently moved' problem, but the price to pay is losing the essential re-centre option.

I'll go through the 'Customise Buttons' menu and see if there is an unassigned button just begging to be used for re-centring the focus point… the Depth of Field Preview button, perhaps?
Click to expand...
"OK" button can be assigned that role.
 
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I think the "D pad" should be on the way out. The joystick does everything the D pad does but quicker and while taking up less real estate on the back of the camera
 
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dabhand16 said:
With the thread on 'has BBF had its day':

Are people ditching bbf with subject detection?

So just for super clarification for a z8 newbie. If I am using BBF and have another button set to 3D. When I press that 3D button I must hold it in the entire time I want to shoot in 3D? And I only hold that button in and press my shutter button when I take the shot. Yes (in my setup...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com

I've had a similar thought about focus joysticks. This began with the release of the Nikon ZF, a camera that I really like given that I have a Fuji XT system. However, Nikon has omitted to put a focus joystick on the camera which I think is a deal breaker for me. Then I started think that with the new AF subject detection systems getting better and better, is there still a need for a joystick?

At the moment I think that yes there is. Plenty of times when an ordinary focus mode will be the best one to use and the joystick is a better way to move the focuse point manually. Also right now focus restraint boxes need to be moved around, but maybe in time and with more development.............

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind not everybody uses their camera in a way that AF tracking of eyes is what is wanted in focus -- e.g. landscapes, at least.
 
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David Berry said:
There are two ways that I use for manual positioning of the focus point:
  1. Viewing image on the rear screen:
    — Drag the focus point to where it should be, or just tap the correct place.
    — In effect, operate your camera as if it were a smartphone.

  2. Viewing image through the viewfinder:
    — Drag the focus point seen in the viewfinder by moving right thumb around the top right quarter of the rear screen.
    — In effect, a corner of the rear screen has been changed into a joystick.
    — If you're ambidextrous, choose a different corner or the whole rear screen!
    — Definitely, mirrorless only!
Click to expand...
Is this with a Z8/9? Mine are set to move AF point and I have prioritize viewfinder turned on (although I tried it with auto as well). The AF point moves if I use the LCD but looking through the viewfinder the LCD does nothing for me…am I missing something in the setup to get this to work? I've got touch controls on and Steve's book only talks about moving the AF point via touch using the LCD. I would love to be able to move the AF point in the viewfinder via the LCD as that's far faster than monkeying with the joystick.
 
David Berry said:
I'm tempted to switch the joystick to 'Off'. That will get rid of the 'inadvertently moved' problem, but the price to pay is losing the essential re-centre option.

I'll go through the 'Customise Buttons' menu and see if there is an unassigned button just begging to be used for re-centring the focus point… the Depth of Field Preview button, perhaps?
Click to expand...

The center of the joystick recenters (at least on my R5). If yours doesn't there is a menu for that I'd guess. The small issue I have with using my thumb on the rear glass while looking through the evf is it seems to jump a little as I pull my thumb off, where the joy stick can be click by click increments. And the increments are somewhat adjustable.
 
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Anjin San said:
The AF point moves if I use the LCD but looking through the viewfinder the LCD does nothing for me…am I missing something in the setup to get this to work?
Click to expand...

When the VF is on the LCD is switched off unless you can set the camera for both to be on at the same time.
 
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I suspect that most of us have our mirrorless cameras set to auto-switch between viewfinder and rear screen; however, for moving the focus point around, we can use the blank rear screen as a touchpad even while looking through the EVF.

The options for setting this up, if it's available, will vary between brands and even models.
 
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dabhand16 said:
When the VF is on the LCD is switched off unless you can set the camera for both to be on at the same time.
Click to expand...
That’s what I thought…but have prioritize VF on to save battery…but David indicated he uses it so was wondering. I looked in Steve’s book and the menus and don’t see a way to enable it and don’t know if both can be on simultaneously anyway…will look for that as well. Too bad it doesn’t work…but I guess it would need power instead of off to enable touch which would defeat the battery saving issue…because tht would be a lot easier than the joystick.
 
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Could be wrong but I believe the Nikon Zf is the only Nikon that allows you to look through the viewfinder while simultaneously using the rear LCD panel as a touch pad for moving the focus point and that function has to be enabled in the menu.
 
With the Canons there is a menu where you select what quadrant of the rear screen to be active and whether the motion is absolute or relative to where the current cursor is. I like relative but absolute would have it's uses for a rapid repositioning. As I'm writing this I think I might try absolute for rapid positioning then fine tune with the joystick.
 
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