Are people ditching bbf with subject detection?

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Rjdane2

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Curious has anyone who previously used back button focus switch back to shutter half press with now having subject detection lock on allowing you to compose your image as you want? I would use bbf and continuous tracking to be able to use it as a single focus if I wanted to recompose my image without it refocusing on me when pressing the shutter but not I feel like with the subject recognition and tracking through the viewfinder for you this may not be needed anymore. Probably take a while to get used to going back but wondering if anyone has.
 
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I still use BBAF with my Z8 and Z9. I still prefer to trigger auto focus when I want and only when I want. Sure for many wildlife and sports applications subject detection and tracking may make BBAF unnecessary. But there are plenty of photo situations including landscapes, astro, some group images, macro including focus stacking and the like where I want control over focusing and may want manual focus or may want to auto focus on a specific point and not have the camera start focusing again when I half press the shutter.

Basically I think of BBAF as AF on demand, when I want it AF is just a thumb press away but when I don't want it for any of a number of reasons I don't have to turn anything off on the lens or in the menus I just don't have to activate the back button.
 
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I went away from it on my a1. Even with the a9ii and certainly with the a1 the tracking is so good I hit the shutter, activate tracking (which may or may not include subject recognition) and compose however I like. Instead of activating AF with a back button, I most often activate tracking with it (shutter button is AF on only), though I have several other AF or shooting modes available on other back buttons. If I take AF off my shutter, I effectively lose a button to use for something else. To give credit, most of this setup I got from armitage.
 
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I used BBF on my Z6ii, Z7ii and Z9 but have switched back to shutter button half press. I was fortunate enough to go on a photo tour with Brad Hill and a handful of photographers last September. I missed some shots changing AF areas and discussed it with the group. I had a function button asigned to allow selecting auto focus area using the dials. It was too slow. I was advised to think about using focus buttons for what I did most often. After an evaluation, I have gone back to half press for focus. I generally start with AF area set to Wide Area Large and then narrow down depending on the subject. My buttons are:
3d tracking override - AF-ON & Vertical AF-ON
C1 (1X1) - Fn1 & Fn3
C2 (19X3) - Fn2
Wide Area Small - L-Fn2
Dynamic Area Small - L-Fn1
Subj. Detection On/Off (recall shooting function) - Sub Selector Center

I'm not recommending this particular set-up to anyone. It works for what and where I most often shoot. I would recommend thinking about what you use most often and then using the buttons to get there as quickly as possible.
 
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My experience is that proper exposure is critical for effective Subject ID. I find that when the image is properly exposed, the BIRD ID on my OM-1 is almost foolproof. As a result, I have dedicated two of the easiest buttons on the OM-1 to "White Bird on dark background", AND "Black Bird on a light background". Once the three modes (normal, white bird, black bird) are setup properly, auto ISO keeps the image properly exposed virtually all the time. A third, easy-to-find button is reserved for PROCapture (pre-capture). The net result is the button typically used for BBAF is reserved for a more important function.

There are two buttons on the top of the OM-1 which are relatively easy, just not as easy as the three buttons in a row on the back, right, top of the camera that switch modes. One I use for BID ID on-off and one for switching between the ALL and Small focuses areas.

5 buttons and a shutter for the situations I normally encounter.
 
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While I appreciate the utility of BBF and used to use it all of the time on my R5/R3, the Z8 lacks the same number of easily accessible and employable rear thumb buttons. As it is, I have a base AF mode assigned to the shutter button, 3D to the BB AF-on, and spot focus to fn1. The display button is awkward for me to use and that’s really the only nearby option. In contrast, Canon had three buttons (arguably 4) in close proximity to the top thumb wheel making various assignments easier IMHO. It’s one of the reasons I liked my Canon gear better in many respects and wish that Nikon had adopted a top thumb wheel and added buttons below rather than the saw-toothed thumb wheel integrated into the body.
 
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It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish and what the camera focus areas are capable of. My current setup is triple back button and a button for manual peaking, but that is because the R5 has a wealth of buttons and dials. One for the tiniest spot, one for a smallish area and one to engage tracking. But I previously had done fine with tracking always under the shutter half press unless I override it with a button under the thumb to turn on manual peaking.

All ways work but the trick is for it to be second nature when the shot of the lifetime comes a calling.
 
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I never stopped using BBAF when I got my Z9 2 years ago. I've been using BBAF for as long as I can remember, many many years. Using the half press shutter feels so unnatural to me. I started using the Wide Large on the shutter and the 3D on the BB in February 2022 about 2 or 3 weeks after getting one on the 2nd batch of shipments but I'd occasionally inadvertently take some images I didn't want to.

Now with Bird SD with FW 4.10 I only use Auto Area AF mode 100% full time, no hybrid or other AF modes. I do have 3D on my DISP button and single point on my sub selector but use them VERY rarely probably 1 or 2% of the time. I will probably always use BBAF for the rest of my life unless it's ever ditched from cameras (highly doubtful)
 
Rjdane2 said:
Curious has anyone who previously used back button focus switch back to shutter half press with now having subject detection lock on allowing you to compose your image as you want? I would use bbf and continuous tracking to be able to use it as a single focus if I wanted to recompose my image without it refocusing on me when pressing the shutter but not I feel like with the subject recognition and tracking through the viewfinder for you this may not be needed anymore. Probably take a while to get used to going back but wondering if anyone has.
Click to expand...

Whichever way it's done one still wants a way to disengaged autofocus to lock the current spot or to manually focus. That still can be done without bbf if a button is assigned to turn af off while held down. What camera do you have?
 
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I'm curious about having different focus modes set to different buttons. If you are using BBF, when you take the shot and have the shutter release set to a different focus mode is there no conflict? Does the BBF button lock out the shutter release focus mode?
 
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Dab Hand said:
Does the BBF button lock out the shutter release focus mode?
Click to expand...
Yes (in my setup arrangement for Canon R5):
  • Front Button (shutter):
    Continuous AF + Animal Eye Detect + sticky 'case' settings
  • Rear Button (AF-On)
    Single-shot AF + Spot + auto 'case' settings
Pressing a rear button will override the shutter button's AF settings for as long as the rear button is pressed.

… David
 
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One thing to ask is what happens when you want to shoot a landscape from a tripod or focus and recompose with locked focus. There are several ways to accommodate, but if pressing the shutter focuses it can be an issue to solve.
 
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Bleirer said:
What happens when you want to shoot a landscape from a tripod or focus and recompose with locked focus?
Click to expand...
Bleirer…

I have a simple get-out-of-jail card to play in these circumstances:
  • press a special button (multi-function or M-Fn—conveniently next to the shutter) and…
  • my Canon R5 changes instantaneously from a wildlife camera to a landscape camera…
  • press the M-Fn button again and the camera's set up for macro…
  • press a third time and it's back to wildlife.
… David
 
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I use the shutter button. Always have. I tired using the BBAF but didn't like it. Felt unnatural.. But I don't wear heavy gloves (if any at all). If I was out with heavy gloves I'd set it for BBAF...Currently my BBAF is assigned to 3D...
 
David Berry said:
Bleirer…

I have a simple get-out-of-jail card to play in these circumstances:
  • press a special button (multi-function or M-Fn—conveniently next to the shutter) and…
  • my Canon R5 changes instantaneously from a wildlife camera to a landscape camera…
  • press the M-Fn button again and the camera's set up for macro…
  • press a third time and it's back to wildlife.
… David
Click to expand...

I'm wondering what function you programmed to the Mf button to toggle those 3 things?
 
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I used BBF for all my DSLR cameras. I switched over to shutter focus starting with the A9 and have continued on with it with all my Sony, Nikon and Canon MILCs. I do still use BackButtons to modify my focus mode but when I do that I still restrict my actual focusing to the shutter.

If I remember correctly, one of my main motivations for switching to shutter focus was shooting fast, erratic subjects like swallows in flight. It was much easier to go on and off focus and fire with just the use of one finger and not having to use thumb and finger. But as mentioned in the OP, the advent of tracking all over the frame negated the main reason for BBF on a DSLR.

The only capability I don't have using shutter focus is being able to MF to a subject and then fire without having AF engage and mess up the focus. I don't find myself frustrated by that situation very often so I don't miss it.
 
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dabhand16 said:
I'm curious about having different focus modes set to different buttons. If you are using BBF, when you take the shot and have the shutter release set to a different focus mode is there no conflict? Does the BBF button lock out the shutter release focus mode?
Click to expand...
Yes, on all cameras I've tried this method on from Canon, Nikon and Sony the backbutton AF setting overrides what the shutter would normally do. The shutter on all cameras will be programmed for the overall camera base setting in the menu for AF mode and the back (or front) button will modify that and override the base AF mode that the shutter normally does.
 
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arbitrage said:
The only capability I don't have using shutter focus is being able to MF to a subject and then fire without having AF engage and mess up the focus. I don't find myself frustrated by that situation very often so I don't miss it.
Click to expand...
I have a "Scenics" Bank and my BBAF is programmed for AF Lock in that mode (among other setting changes).
 
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bleirer said:
I'm wondering what function you programmed to the Mf button to toggle those 3 things?
Click to expand...
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  • The M-Fn button toggles between the Custom Shooting Modes: C1—>C2—>C3—>C1—>
  • For me, C3 is set to wildlife.
  • One of the advantages of this arrangement is that when exposure settings or drive mode are 'messed up', three taps of M-Fn (taking less than one second?) will restore all to the defaults. Oh, joy!
Canon R5 : AF Back Buttons:
  1. AF-ON : Fully programmable for AF.
    Ergonomics : Acceptable *** (out of *****)

  2. AE Lock ('Asterisk') : Fully programmable for AF.
    Ergonomics : Inconvenient ** (out of *****)

  3. AF Point ('Flag') : Limited AF features.
    Ergonomics : Poor * (out of *****)
    Quite acceptable for other purposes!
 
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