Are people ditching bbf with subject detection?

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I started using BBAF years ago with my DSLRs. When I switched to the Z9, I set the camera up similar to my D850 in order to help with the DSLR to mirrorless transition. After becoming familiar with it, I started tweaking my setup and among other things I went back to AF on the shutter, and gave myself several months to adapt. After that period I went back to BBAF. Whether it was muscle memory, or something else, I never felt comfortable with AF on the shutter release. I just much prefer AF initiation when I want it, and not whenever the shutter button is depressed. YMMV.
 
David Berry said:
View attachment 77046

View attachment 77048
  • Obliterated from the white band on the menu screen in first photo (sorry!): "Switch to Custom Shooting Mode".
  • The M-Fn button toggles between the Custom Shooting Modes: C1—>C2—>C3—>C1—>
  • For me, C3 is set to wildlife.
  • One of the advantages of this arrangement is that when exposure settings or drive mode are 'messed up', three taps of M-Fn (taking less than one second?) will restore all to the defaults. Oh, joy!
Canon R5 : AF Back Buttons:
  1. AF-ON : Fully programmable for AF.
    Ergonomics : Acceptable *** (out of *****)

  2. AE Lock ('Asterisk') : Fully programmable for AF.
    Ergonomics : Inconvenient ** (out of *****)

  3. AF Point ('Flag') : Limited AF features.
    Ergonomics : Poor * (out of *****)
    Quite acceptable for other purposes!
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That is clever, I didn't know the Custom modes could be assigned a button.
 
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I started using BBAF with my first DSLR, the Canon 1D Mark II, thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and loved their were two back buttons I could program independently. When I got my D700’s a few years later BBAF with 3D tracking became essential for my style of shooting - focus a recompose, this continues through all the various DSLR’s and into MILC and even into my Z8 earlier this year; however, with the advancements in AF-C and Wide Area AF and the ability to hand off 3D Tracking I began to reconsider, my one hangup was what others mentioned, what about when you don't want AF, but super user on the forum to the rescue - MF override. 99% of the time when I don't want AF its usually cause I want MF and lo and behold if you have the shutter half pressed and you touch that MF ring on the lens, AF immediately stops and now you're in control until you release and re-half press the shutter again. This has given me more flexibility and creative control than I had with BBAF as it allows me to quickly take a shot if need be, if I’m tracking something and subject detection box pops up I can quickly hand off to BB3D and if I’m doing landscape, macro or other situations that need MF finesse I can twist the ring and get exactly what I want.

So while Ive been a proponent and believer in BBAF for many years, I have ditched BBAF for Shutter + BB3D hand off + MF and now have a system of operation that suits me much better and has yielded more keepers for me than with BBAF. Obviously YMMV applies here as this can be personal preference.
 
It's kind of two facets of the same jewel. Either set a back button to autofocus or set one to temporarily turn off autofocus. For whatever reason my camera won't do the focus peaking in servo(afc) unless I have a turn off autofocus button (When held down), so I use the REC button for that.
 
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bleirer said:
It's kind of two facets of the same jewel. Either set a back button to autofocus or set one to temporarily turn off autofocus. For whatever reason my camera won't do the focus peaking in servo(afc) unless I have a turn off autofocus button (When held down), so I use the REC button for that.
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AFAIK focus peaking is only available for manual focus. Don't know if you use manual focus over ride if it will work then.
 
dabhand16 said:
AFAIK focus peaking is only available for manual focus. Don't know if you use manual focus over ride if it will work then.
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I don't know if it is only Canon, but with the manual focus you get while in AF just by turning the focus ring you get focus peaking/focus guides only if shooting one shot (af-s equivalent) but not in servo (af-c equivalent). if I want peaking/focus guides there are several options, but the easiest for me is to program a button for af-off while held. That way I get manual focus with peaking/focus guides without switching out of servo or switching the lens to mf.
 
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If the majority of your shots are with AF engaged and especially if youre shooting action.... using 2 fingers to do what 1 will do is objectively over complicating the task. Focus and recompose is largely a thing of the past and the "real estate" taken up by BBAF could be put to better use as a function button. This is the reason the shutter button activates AF in the first place. In the extremely rare occurrence you need to shoot WITHOUT AF activation a focus hold button can be programmed. Its far better to need to use 2 fingers 1% of the time than 99% of the time. I believe these points are irrefutable.

Personal preference, difficulty adapting and stubbornness are at this point the only real reason to continue with BBAF in the above scenarios. I ditched BBAF when the D5 came out.
 
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as a long time bbf person i’ve switched to what i guess people are calling hybrid, where you leave af-on half shutter, and put a second af mode on the af-on button, in my case 3d+af-on.

i don’t think of this as abandoning bbf, but more that this is an evolution of it and in a lot of ways it kind of is very compatible with the muscle memory and habit i’ve built up over the years
 
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Rjdane2 said:
Curious has anyone who previously used back button focus switch back to shutter half press with now having subject detection lock on allowing you to compose your image as you want? I would use bbf and continuous tracking to be able to use it as a single focus if I wanted to recompose my image without it refocusing on me when pressing the shutter but not I feel like with the subject recognition and tracking through the viewfinder for you this may not be needed anymore. Probably take a while to get used to going back but wondering if anyone has.
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I tried BBF a couple times, in large part for being able to focus and recompose when shooting birds. However, between some arthritis/numbness in my hand and difficulties overcoming 50 years of shutter release muscle memory :), I abandoned my efforts. However, the Z9's subject detection, which I use primarily in 3D mode, has been fantastic for focusing and recomposing and has essentially achieved the goals I had unsuccessfully sought though BBF.
 
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John Navitsky said:
as a long time bbf person i’ve switched to what i guess people are calling hybrid, where you leave af-on half shutter, and put a second af mode on the af-on button, in my case 3d+af-on.

i don’t think of this as abandoning bbf, but more that this is an evolution of it and in a lot of ways it kind of is very compatible with the muscle memory and habit i’ve built up over the years
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I've set mine up the same way.
 
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John Navitsky said:
as a long time bbf person i’ve switched to what i guess people are calling hybrid, where you leave af-on half shutter, and put a second af mode on the af-on button, in my case 3d+af-on.

i don’t think of this as abandoning bbf, but more that this is an evolution of it and in a lot of ways it kind of is very compatible with the muscle memory and habit i’ve built up over the years
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Why 3d+AF-on? If AF-on is on the shutter its kind of redundant. I think the +AF-on options are for BBAF users. Not that it likely matters just curious.
 
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Wes Peterson said:
Why 3d+AF-on? If AF-on is on the shutter its kind of redundant. I think the +AF-on options are for BBAF users. Not that it likely matters just curious.
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it fits with the model (using either button engages af). note i can (and sometimes do) engage af _first_ with the af-on button. yes, i could also engage half press at the same time but i think this is easier/cleaner.
 
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John Navitsky said:
it fits with the model (using either button engages af). note i can (and sometimes do) engage af _first_ with the af-on button. yes, i could also engage half press at the same time but i think this is easier/cleaner.
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Also, afaik the 3D AF-on overrides the focus function of the shutter button. So, like you, I sometimes engage 3D tracking of a bird by immediately hitting the back button. It locks focus at the same time that it starts tracking. Under certain conditions that could get you tracking and shooting a bit faster than shutter-AF first and then hitting back button only after that to start tracking the bird.
 
The back button over-riding the shutter af makes all kinds of combinations very useful. I don't think anything is irrefutable, it's more individual preference for what can you do to set up for success and what am i ready to do automatically at that fleeting moment.
 
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John Navitsky said:
it fits with the model (using either button engages af). note i can (and sometimes do) engage af _first_ with the af-on button. yes, i could also engage half press at the same time but i think this is easier/cleaner.
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I guess what makes that seem odd to me is that engaging AF and switching to 3d at the same time kinda defeats the usefulness of 3-d. I use 3-d by putting the box on the subject to be tracked THEN engaging AF. Thats kind of how its designed to be used but it sounds like you are using to just expand your AF area. Im guessing you never use 3-d without subject detection or start out in 3-d?
 
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Wes Peterson said:
I guess what makes that seem odd to me is that engaging AF and switching to 3d at the same time kinda defeats the usefulness of 3-d. I use 3-d by putting the box on the subject to be tracked THEN engaging AF. Thats kind of how its designed to be used but it sounds like you are using to just expand your AF area. Im guessing you never use 3-d without subject detection or start out in 3-d?
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in general i’m almost always using an auto area mode as my primary. either full frame or within a constraining box like c1 or c2.

while i do occasionally use it as a hand-off, more often i use it when the primary mode is having trouble understanding what to track, or i’m using it to say “focus right here”, typically to pre-focus or to unstick the focus

i do have a button to disable subject detection but i basically don’t use it

yes, using it with subject detection on kinda overlaps the auto area mode a bit and sometimes doesn’t do quite what i want but it usually is “good enough”

my if-all-else-fails go-to is typically to use single point which i have programmed to the lens buttons

so basically, auto area w subject detection, 3d w sub detection or single point

i’m certainly not a nuanced shooter. i think of myself as a high functioning neanderthal 😂
 
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John Navitsky said:
in general i’m almost always using an auto area mode as my primary. either full frame or within a constraining box like c1 or c2.

while i do occasionally use it as a hand-off, more often i use it when the primary mode is having trouble understanding what to track, or i’m using it to say “focus right here”, typically to pre-focus or to unstick the focus

i do have a button to disable subject detection but i basically don’t use it

yes, using it with subject detection on kinda overlaps the auto area mode a bit and sometimes doesn’t do quite what i want but it usually is “good enough”

my if-all-else-fails go-to is typically to use single point which i have programmed to the lens buttons

so basically, auto area w subject detection, 3d w sub detection or single point

i’m certainly not a nuanced shooter. i think of myself as a high functioning neanderthal 😂
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So just to clarify.... if you only press the AF-on button does it switch to 3d AND start tracking and focusing? or does it just switch to 3d mode but not activate AF and tracking?
 
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I shoot both sports and wildlife so my preferences are about speed and usability. It has taken awhile for me to get my total setup but it works. My shutter button is only used for engaging the sutter. Back Button AF is set to AFOn with wideL. My function 1button is set to AFon single point, function 2 is set to AFon Wide S and my fn 3 button is set to AFon Auto Area. I keep my index finger on the shutter button and use my middle finger to go to the appropriate button for the AF mode I want while also taking my thumb off the AFON button.

My cursor is set on 3d AFOn and my rec button toggles between Fx and Dx. It has taken me some time to get all the muscle memory down. I started slow just setting the BBAF to Wide L and fn 1 to single point. Later I added the fn 2 button with AFon wide S. Next was the three d focus on the cursor pad. Often times in sports I may focus on the pit

This system has worked well for me. If I am shooting football, I can use the Single point AF to get right on the QB's face and then handoff to Wide L or 3d when the action starts. Same thing with a perched bird. I can get the focus on him with single point and when he is about to fly I can go to anyone of 3d, wide l or auto area.
 
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John Navitsky said:
yes
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From reports I've seen on the latest Z9 firmware updates the Auto-Area AF with 3D tracking is now much more capable than before. Some folks say they don't need to constrain the focus to Wide L or S, or one of the custom boxes. They just use Auto-Area AF. See Steve's video where he reviewed the latest firmware on the Z9. I'm pretty sure I'll change the way I focus and track animals on my Z8 once that same firmware is made available for it.
 
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Rassie said:
From reports I've seen on the latest Z9 firmware updates the Auto-Area AF with 3D tracking is now much more capable than before. Some folks say they don't need to constrain the focus to Wide L or S, or one of the custom boxes. They just use Auto-Area AF. See Steve's video where he reviewed the latest firmware on the Z9. I'm pretty sure I'll change the way I focus and track animals on my Z8 once that same firmware is made available for it.
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for my subject matter if i use a bounding box, 3d is unlikely to keep up.

the bounding boxes are good because if tracking is momentarily lost, the box helps ot find it as quickly as possible without intervention from the user

but i do hope for additional improvements

but it definitely is better
 
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