GinaLola
Member
If you could only have one lens for your Z9 to use for bird photography (shorebirds, seabirds and backyard songbirds) which one would you buy?
Best lens for Z9 and bird photography
- Thread starter GinaLola
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Z 600mm f4................ Walk around Z 400 f4.5........
Strodav
Well-known member
I prefer a zoom for BIF and those times when your subject is close. The announced 200-600mm f/6.3 would be ideal for me along with the 800 mm f/6.3 S. I got tired of waiting and picked up a Megadap 211 Z to E adapter and Sony 200-600 mm f/5.6-6.3. I am getting very good results with it. Absolutely no problems so far. It’s a very, very nice piece of glass, much better than the 200-500mm f/5.6 with FTZ II adapter. Now, when will the 800mm become readily available?
So this is the thread where we all get to say you should get what I've got? 
Otherwise the only answer is, it depends.
Do you prefer prime lenses or zooms?
Do you want to shoot handheld or on a tripod?
Do you shoot static birds or BIF?
Do you want full frame high pixel images to print or happy as long as you can crop out enough to post online?
Otherwise the only answer is, it depends.
Do you prefer prime lenses or zooms?
Do you want to shoot handheld or on a tripod?
Do you shoot static birds or BIF?
Do you want full frame high pixel images to print or happy as long as you can crop out enough to post online?
Z 600mm TC
3 days ago found an osprey flying but at quite a distance
Z9 + 600mm + 1.4TC + camera in DX mode (equivalent of 1620mm)
1st image is full frame
2nd image is about 400% crop
3 days ago found an osprey flying but at quite a distance
Z9 + 600mm + 1.4TC + camera in DX mode (equivalent of 1620mm)
1st image is full frame
2nd image is about 400% crop
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What I would (or did) buy may not be what you would (or did) buy. What is your budget? Do you “walk and gun” or do you use a tripod most of the time? What is “too heavy” for you?
GinaLola
Member
Thank you for the replies and questions, As for what I shoot, it’s all the above. BIF, perched birds, handheld, on a tripod, at close range, or on a sandbar out in the ocean. I do a lot of the social media for our bird club at the beach so I shoot every possible bird on our island. (Near Charleston, SC). I have the Z100-400 which I love but once I add TCs the widest aperture is f/11 at 800mm. That works at times but sometimes I need the reach and more light. I’m a strong 60 year old female but don’t want anything super heavy as I carry it on long hikes with our bird club. I’m in this purely for the enjoyment, not a career. I have the budget to buy either Z lens but would rather invest in one or two that will get me the best results. Considering the wait time I want to make sure I’m waiting for the right lens. I’d hate to order the 800 and then realize the 600 would serve my needs better. So that’s the detail behind my question. Thank you!! All advice appreciated.
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robertrear
Active member
At some point I'm going to have to cross that road with all the new Z lenses coming out. Budget is always the biggest concern find out what you can afford and be happy with it. Let's face it most of us don't sell a lot and just post on social media. So if you have a big budget 600 with the t/c build in. If you don't go for the 800. The 600 is more flexible and just a switch you can have close to the other. I already have a 600 in the f series but if I ever go to the Z line which I can really afford one lens and that's a stretching it will be the 400 2/8 and add another teleconverter for the longer reaches. I just don't think the 800 has a low light capability that I'm looking for but it might for what you are looking for. If you are not using it very early mornings and very late afternoons then the 800 would work just fine.
For what you describe the 800mm 6.3. The one caveat may be carrying it on "long hikes". With the Z9 it's about eight pounds. I just finished shooting for three months with the Z9/800mm on the SC coast. Below are links to photos I've posted here in the forum. If you decide to go that route while the lens is on order you may want to get out and practice a bit with your 400mm/2x TC just to get a feel for shooting with 800mm field of view. Some people have a hard time getting used to it.
Huntington State Park
Huntington Again
Magnolia Gardens Rookery
Sanderlings on Pawleys Island
Pelican Dive off Pawleys Island
Turnstone at Pawleys
Willet at Pawleys
LBB
EricKlees
Well-known member
I already have it. The 800mm f6.3 PF.. the speed, reach and sharpness are quite insane. l only shoot hand held and this lens isn't an issue holding it from 7am till 6 or 7pm walking around all day like i did yesterday.
My 2nd might me the 400mm f2.8 TC as the most versatile lens. 400 f2.8, with TC engaged 560 f4, with just a 2x TC it's an 800 f5.6, no TC in DX it's a 600 f2.8 AND it takes a 2x TC with the 1.4x in engaged for 1120mm f8. All of which I've seen tested with a friend 400 f2.8 TC and the images are all very good to insanely sharp.
With that said, my kid will eventually be the 200-600 and 800PF. 100-400 had way too big of a gap from 400 to 800mm Anna I'm not looking to be constantly adding Anna removing a TC on the 100-400 missing opportunities
My 2nd might me the 400mm f2.8 TC as the most versatile lens. 400 f2.8, with TC engaged 560 f4, with just a 2x TC it's an 800 f5.6, no TC in DX it's a 600 f2.8 AND it takes a 2x TC with the 1.4x in engaged for 1120mm f8. All of which I've seen tested with a friend 400 f2.8 TC and the images are all very good to insanely sharp.
With that said, my kid will eventually be the 200-600 and 800PF. 100-400 had way too big of a gap from 400 to 800mm Anna I'm not looking to be constantly adding Anna removing a TC on the 100-400 missing opportunities
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I’m currently using the Z 100-400, 500 mm PF and Z 800 mm PF on my Z9 as my main wildlife lenses. I do a lot of bird photography, ranging from large birds to small. I would not want to pick just one. At some level, the question is what to pair with your Z 100-400.
Prior to the Z 100-400 and Z 800 mm PF, the 500 mm PF was my most used wildlife lens, including with the 1.4x TC (getting you to 700 mm , f8) and sometimes the 1.7x TCII and 2x TCIII. That may be changing now with the Z 100-400 and Z 800.
I do a lot of photography from a kayak, canoe, zodiacs, while walking or hiking and traveling. So size and weight matter a lot to me. While I would love the flexibility of a built-in TC, the size and weight of the Z 400 TC and Z 600 TC have ruled them out for me (at least so far).
The Z 400 f4.5 would get you to 560 mm, f6.3 with the Z 1.4x TC and 800 mm f9 with the Z 2x TC. I don’t have this lens, but have been considering it. Certainly a light weight way to go. And you get 800 mm at f9, which is better than f11 and probably better optically too than the 2x TC on the Z 100-400 (I’ve done that on my Z 100-400, but prefer to avoid f11 in most cases). Not sure how this compares with the 500 mm PF and TC.
The 500 mm PF is also smaller and lighter. With the 1.4x TCIII, you get 700 mm and f8. I have used this combo in my kayak a lot for water birds and on land for smaller birds like warblers. Using this combo made me feel confident that I would like the 800 mm focal length. I have also used it with the 1.7x TCII (850 mm, f9.5) and 2x TCIII (1000 mm f11). All work well on a Z body if you can live with the aperture.
I was lucky enough to get the Z 800 mm PF last fall. I‘ve liked the lens a lot and found it useful for much more than birds. On a recent trip to Vancouver Island, I used it from a sailboat and zodiacs for sea lions, seals, more distant whales, as well as larger birds (e.g., bald eagles and cormorants) and smaller birds (e.g., murrelets and shorebirds). On the trip, I usually had the Z 800 on one body and the Z 100-400 on a second body. Gave me a lot of flexibility. I’ve also used the Z 800 in Minnesota with the Z 1.4x TC (1120 mm f9) and found that useful. Will be testing the Z 800 with the Z 2x TC this month at a nearby heron rookery. The lens is large, but lighter than the Z 400 TC and Z 600 TC. I can walk around with it and handhold it. It’s a great lens, but not for every situation or for every person.
I would love the flexibility of a 600 mm with a built-in TC. But not at 7+ pounds. Brad Hill was very positive on the Z 600 TC, but I believe, given what he photographs, he is keeping the Z 800 and Z 400 TC as his main long lenses. (He also has a light weight kit.)
Good luck with your choice. May good options depending on what you want.
Prior to the Z 100-400 and Z 800 mm PF, the 500 mm PF was my most used wildlife lens, including with the 1.4x TC (getting you to 700 mm , f8) and sometimes the 1.7x TCII and 2x TCIII. That may be changing now with the Z 100-400 and Z 800.
I do a lot of photography from a kayak, canoe, zodiacs, while walking or hiking and traveling. So size and weight matter a lot to me. While I would love the flexibility of a built-in TC, the size and weight of the Z 400 TC and Z 600 TC have ruled them out for me (at least so far).
The Z 400 f4.5 would get you to 560 mm, f6.3 with the Z 1.4x TC and 800 mm f9 with the Z 2x TC. I don’t have this lens, but have been considering it. Certainly a light weight way to go. And you get 800 mm at f9, which is better than f11 and probably better optically too than the 2x TC on the Z 100-400 (I’ve done that on my Z 100-400, but prefer to avoid f11 in most cases). Not sure how this compares with the 500 mm PF and TC.
The 500 mm PF is also smaller and lighter. With the 1.4x TCIII, you get 700 mm and f8. I have used this combo in my kayak a lot for water birds and on land for smaller birds like warblers. Using this combo made me feel confident that I would like the 800 mm focal length. I have also used it with the 1.7x TCII (850 mm, f9.5) and 2x TCIII (1000 mm f11). All work well on a Z body if you can live with the aperture.
I was lucky enough to get the Z 800 mm PF last fall. I‘ve liked the lens a lot and found it useful for much more than birds. On a recent trip to Vancouver Island, I used it from a sailboat and zodiacs for sea lions, seals, more distant whales, as well as larger birds (e.g., bald eagles and cormorants) and smaller birds (e.g., murrelets and shorebirds). On the trip, I usually had the Z 800 on one body and the Z 100-400 on a second body. Gave me a lot of flexibility. I’ve also used the Z 800 in Minnesota with the Z 1.4x TC (1120 mm f9) and found that useful. Will be testing the Z 800 with the Z 2x TC this month at a nearby heron rookery. The lens is large, but lighter than the Z 400 TC and Z 600 TC. I can walk around with it and handhold it. It’s a great lens, but not for every situation or for every person.
I would love the flexibility of a 600 mm with a built-in TC. But not at 7+ pounds. Brad Hill was very positive on the Z 600 TC, but I believe, given what he photographs, he is keeping the Z 800 and Z 400 TC as his main long lenses. (He also has a light weight kit.)
Good luck with your choice. May good options depending on what you want.
GinaLola
Member
And now the question of the day…. approximately how long is it taking to get the 800 after ordering? Or any of the other lenses we mentioned for that matter. Do you find it’s quicker to order directly from Nikon or from a supplier like B&H, or no difference?
I was lucky to get a Z 800 mm PF last fall (non-NPS order, first on my local dealer’s list, and one came in for an NPS member who changed his mind — said the Z 400 TC was good enough for him to get to 800 mm when he needed it -- so my dealer sold it to me). Nikon stopped taking orders for a while.
My sense is that for hard to get items, a local dealer may often be a better bet than B&H. (I like B&H in general and use them for a number of things.) Given the large number of pre-orders at a large online dealer like B&H and the way Nikon allocates shipments, the smaller local dealer can be faster in many cases with high demand items.
I have not kept up with the order status for the Z 800, Z 400 TC, or Z 600 TC. I think past non-NPS orders for the Z 800 are now often being filled. Here is a thread on Z 800 orders. https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/800mm-z-lens-orders.17518/page-10
I believe that the Z 400 f4.5 and the 500 mm PF are not hard to get at this point. And the 500 mm PF may be available used.
If you are NPS, it may all be faster.
My sense is that for hard to get items, a local dealer may often be a better bet than B&H. (I like B&H in general and use them for a number of things.) Given the large number of pre-orders at a large online dealer like B&H and the way Nikon allocates shipments, the smaller local dealer can be faster in many cases with high demand items.
I have not kept up with the order status for the Z 800, Z 400 TC, or Z 600 TC. I think past non-NPS orders for the Z 800 are now often being filled. Here is a thread on Z 800 orders. https://bcgforums.com/index.php?threads/800mm-z-lens-orders.17518/page-10
I believe that the Z 400 f4.5 and the 500 mm PF are not hard to get at this point. And the 500 mm PF may be available used.
If you are NPS, it may all be faster.
LOL pretty much what these sort of threads end up being.So this is the thread where we all get to say you should get what I've got?
Since you already have the 100-400, and you don't want to spend a ton (that rules out the 400/600 TC), I'd probably just add the 500PF + 1.4TC. Spectacular all-around lens that'll compliment your 100-400 really well. Downside is needing to use a FTZ, but it just becomes part of the lens and you don't notice it anymore.
I got the 800PF, so sold the 500PF, and just recently added the 400 4.5 because I missed the smaller lens. Great combo in use, but if I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I'd probably just keep the 500PF because along w/ the 1.4TC and FX/DX mode on the Z9, it makes for a great a one-lens solution.
Have you tried the Z 1.4x TC with your Z 100-400 mm lens? I find that can be quite useful when you want the flexibility of a zoom and more reach. It gets you to 560 mm, although it is f8 at the long end. Optics seem good to me. I used that last year in Yellowstone (winter) for mammals; Iceland for puffins and other sea birds; and Hudson Bay (fall) for polar bears and arctic foxes. In each case, I also brought the 500 mm PF and 1.4x TCIII. A versatile set.
arbitrage
Well-known member
From your follow up post about your use case I don't think you'd like to lug around the 400TC or 600TC. For what you shoot I think the 600TC is the ideal lens for the subjects but not the ideal lens for your shooting requirements.
I think you either go for 800PF or 400/4.5 with 1.4TC. I have the 400/4.5 with 1.4TC and it is every bit as good as the 500PF and more stable on the camera with weight balance more towards the camera because you don't have to use the FTZ.
I think 400/4.5 with 1.4TC as needed is an awesome walk around lens. At 560 f/6.3 it will give you that extra 2/3 stop over the 100-400 and a bit better IQ and AF.
If you can handle the 800PF (as mentioned above 8lbs on a Z9) then that can be a good option. But mind the MFD of that lens and make sure 800mm will work for your subjects. Depending on where you live and where you bird it may be too much focal length a lot of the time and if you are walking narrow paths with say warblers in close proximity the MFD may be too long. 400/4.5 with 1.4TC may be better option.
I think you either go for 800PF or 400/4.5 with 1.4TC. I have the 400/4.5 with 1.4TC and it is every bit as good as the 500PF and more stable on the camera with weight balance more towards the camera because you don't have to use the FTZ.
I think 400/4.5 with 1.4TC as needed is an awesome walk around lens. At 560 f/6.3 it will give you that extra 2/3 stop over the 100-400 and a bit better IQ and AF.
If you can handle the 800PF (as mentioned above 8lbs on a Z9) then that can be a good option. But mind the MFD of that lens and make sure 800mm will work for your subjects. Depending on where you live and where you bird it may be too much focal length a lot of the time and if you are walking narrow paths with say warblers in close proximity the MFD may be too long. 400/4.5 with 1.4TC may be better option.
I have owned the Z 800mm for a year and loved the lens. Could easily shoot with it on a tripod, monopod or handheld. Sometimes it was too much lens. But I also have the Z 400mm f4.5 and with a 1.4X TC on it I could easily shoot at 560mm with great results. Or use the 400mm without TC and it is a great flight lens.
Now I have the Z 600mm TC and I have, with some regret, sold the 800mm. The 600mm is harder to hand hold and it is certainly more of a burden to carry around. But it is an incredible lens, very sharp and with great versatility in that I can with a flip go from 600mm to 840mm.
But if I didn't have the 600mm, I think a great combination would be the 800mm along with the 400mm f4.5 with 1.4X TC.
Another reasonable and light weight option would be to have only the 400mm f4.5 and use it with both the 1.4X and 2X teleconverters, which will get you out to 800mm. The quality of the 400mm 4.5 with 1.4X TC is very good and the quality with the 2X TC is reasonable.
Now I have the Z 600mm TC and I have, with some regret, sold the 800mm. The 600mm is harder to hand hold and it is certainly more of a burden to carry around. But it is an incredible lens, very sharp and with great versatility in that I can with a flip go from 600mm to 840mm.
But if I didn't have the 600mm, I think a great combination would be the 800mm along with the 400mm f4.5 with 1.4X TC.
Another reasonable and light weight option would be to have only the 400mm f4.5 and use it with both the 1.4X and 2X teleconverters, which will get you out to 800mm. The quality of the 400mm 4.5 with 1.4X TC is very good and the quality with the 2X TC is reasonable.
At this moment it would be the Sony 200-600mm adapted zoom I currently own. It's an amazing lens, and with each passing month in which Nikon does not offer its own version it seems like a better and better investment. A second choice would be the 600mm f4Z, which I don't own and is oh, so expensive so it's likely I never will own it.
The 500mm PF lens, with and without the TC14eiii, is another good choice. Supposedly it "autofocuses slowly" on the Z9 because of the FTZ adapter, but it seems plenty fast enough to me for just about all purposes.
I do now own the 800 PF, and it is fantastic for birds-at-a-distance, but it would NOT be my first choice as a one and only tele because I don't find it ideal for "backyard birds" or feeder birds. At close distances (15 feet being as close as it gets) the shallow DOF is actually a cause of some frustration.
That's helpful. The 800mm PF is great - especially for songbirds and more distant shorebirds. It's fine for birds in flight but you will need practice due to the narrow field of view.
100% spot-on w/ my observations regarding the 800: it's a supreme lens when you have the room to employ it, but for up-close jittery song birds in thick vegetation the AF and handling are proving to be just a bit too cumbersome (for me, at least). The 400 4.5 + 1.4TC (and the 500PF before it) is turning out to be perfect for this role, so it makes a great compliment to the 800PF.
I love what the Nikon system has going for it so far, but the Sony 200-600 just makes a ton of sense as a one lens solution; mounted on the A1, I'd consider it to be the ultimate wildlife setup.
EricKlees
Well-known member
The 500pf focuses faster in the Z9 then it does on the the D5/D500. .73 second on the DSLRs and .52 second on the Z9. There is no issues using the FTZ II adapter.
The Sony 200-600 is chosen for portability and flexibility. The Sony 600 f/4 is chosen for a faster aperture, slightly better image quality, better with a TC including a 2X, and faster focus. I have a friend that has both and uses both on a pair of A1's for bird photography.
I've decided the Nikon 200-600 will not be added to my kit. The 400mm f/4.5 with 1.4 TC covers most of the needs as well or better, I have the 800mm PF, and the 70-200 f/2.8 is one of my most used lenses. The 200-600 would be convenient, but fills niches and I already have the alternatives covered. For context, I chose not to get the 100-400 and was late to the 200-500 because I had those focal lengths covered with other lenses.
I do see the 200-600 as a very popular lens for wildlife photographers with the new Nikon action camera. Just not for me.
I have the combination for my Z9 of Z100-400 and 500 F5.6 for my wildlife photography. 500 is on for 90% of my photography, especially birds. I have the TC 14 III, but rarely use it. I just go to DX mode (750mm 35mm equivalent) with 19.5 mpx if I need more magnification. This combination will last me a long time.
GinaLola
Member
Very good info, thank you! It sounds like the Z 800 will be perfect for long distance shots of shorebirds out on the beach, in the restricted nesting area, and out on the sandbar. Hopefully it won't take too long to get it!
Here is the shot you are talking about. The image is completely unprocessed and uncropped. Nickerson Beach, Long Island NY last summer. Sanderling birds running around like crazy at the shoreline. Bird is only about 6 inches in size. Used the Z9 with Auto Area AF and animal detection. Z 800mm with 1.4X TC, handheld.
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