Bird Photography with Nikon D780

[mikemyers]

I expect to get back there in a few weeks - and will try a lot more. I have since acquired a monopod - might try that too. My longer lens is still 300mm - need to find something a bit longer, but not too heavy.


Is anyone here shooting birds with the D780 in ML mode? I know I need to view the rear screen - haven't tried that yet?
If so, what settings do you suggest???

 

[DRwyoming]

Is anyone here shooting birds with the D780 in ML mode? I know I need to view the rear screen - haven't tried that yet?
If so, what settings do you suggest???

FWIW, I've used Live View (rear panel viewing) modes on DSLRs in many situations especially when there's a need to get down low and have the camera near ground level. I've also used it in some unique situations like photographing a solar eclipse where the camera was on a tripod pointed up at a very steep angle making it difficult to view through the viewfinder.

It's pretty similar to viewfinder photography and camera settings like aperture, shutter speed, ISO and AF modes don't really change. The downside is that it can be hard to see the rear panel LCD clearly in brighter light and in my case it means wearing reading glasses that I don't need when viewing through the diopter corrected viewfinder. In theory the focus might be more accurate for lenses that otherwise might need some AF Fine Tuning as the main image sensor is used for focusing instead of a separate AF sensor used in through the viewfinder photography. Personally I haven't seen any real difference as long as the lens being used doesn't need some big AF Fine Tuning adjustments.

I don't find shooting in Live View mode changes much though in some awkward camera positions it can make shots possible that might be hard to impossible while shooting through the viewfinder like holding the camera near water level over the side of a canoe or kayak(risky move, don't drop the camera ) where the rear panel enables a shot that wouldn't be possible with my eye to the viewfinder.

 

[mikemyers]

I'm not excited about using Live View, but it's the only way to turn on the Mirrorless Technology built into the D780. Thanks for what you wrote, but I guess that's something I'm stuck with. The focusing and everything else ONLY works like the Z6 ML camera is I select Live View on my D780. - or maybe you're aware of something I haven't yet found? I want to try the auto-focus settings, and maybe it will even track eyes (I doubt it) on birds. All of this potentially great stuff is de-activated until/unless I select Live View mode. That means I need to be looking AT, (not Through) the rear screen. But maybe the D780 will then function like an ML camera? Technically, it should.... I think....

I've read the documentation, and it's pretty clear. Nikon made all these ML tools accessible, once we turn off the top viewfinder.

 

[DRwyoming]

I'm not excited about using Live View, but it's the only way to turn on the Mirrorless Technology built into the D780. Thanks for what you wrote, but I guess that's something I'm stuck with. The focusing and everything else ONLY works like the Z6 ML camera is I select Live View on my D780. - or maybe you're aware of something I haven't yet found? I want to try the auto-focus settings, and maybe it will even track eyes (I doubt it) on birds. All of this potentially great stuff is de-activated until/unless I select Live View mode. That means I need to be looking AT, (not Through) the rear screen. But maybe the D780 will then function like an ML camera? Technically, it should.... I think....

I've read the documentation, and it's pretty clear. Nikon made all these ML tools accessible, once we turn off the top viewfinder.

That's true that you only get the Z6 II style On-The-Sensor AF when shooting in Live View, that's required as mirrorless technology requires the main image sensor to be used for both focusing and image capture and in a DSLR the main image sensor can't see the image until the mirror is flipped up out of the way (disabling viewfinder viewing) and the shutter is opened up.

I wouldn't expect any great AF improvements when shooting in Live View mode. I owned a Z6 II from the time it was released and though it's a fantastic camera and is obviously a mirrorless camera its AF system is more on par with what you have in your D780 when shooting through the viewfinder and not as advanced as what a Z8, Z9 or apparently even the Zf can do. It does support some subject tracking but personally I didn't find the Z6 II's subject tracking to be that useful for live and moving wildlife subjects though it seemed to work pretty well for human portraits.

One big plus of shooting in Live View mode with your D780 is that you should be able to place AF points much closer to the frame edge. That's something I really liked with my Z6II compared to even the flagship DSLRs. That can be very handy for static or very slow moving subjects even if you're not using advanced subject tracking as it opens up nice composition possibilities. But without the advanced tracking and subject/eye detection features of newer mirrorless cameras that include at least the Expeed 7 processor.

I'd experiment with shooting in Live View mode to see what it can and can't do for you and maybe you'll love shooting that way but don't expect huge AF improvements when shooting that way compared to using things like Group AF area mode for fast moving subjects while shooting through the D780's viewfinder.

 

[mikemyers]

Thanks; I'll give it a try, as I'm stubborn, but from what you wrote, I might be disappointed.

With the D780 I can touch the screen where I want to focus - no idea how useful this might be??? It would have helped wtth this shot, where I was struggling to focus on the eye....... but now I know I should have taken this from "ground level" which was impossible at this location.

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[DRwyoming]

With the D780 I can touch the screen where I want to focus - no idea how useful this might be???

I do find that a useful feature of Live View photography. Definitely much faster than scrolling the focus point with the joystick. You can also get benefits like having a histogram displayed on the rear LCD to help you make exposure decisions before the shot is captured.

There's definitely some interesting benefits to shooting via the rear panel LCD and in slower moving situations you may find the subject tracking works nicely, just don't expect miracles.

 

[PhotoLover]

When I was there three weeks ago there were many Wood Stork nests and a few Great Egret nests that were at eye level. The chicks were well hidden but the mature birds were easily accessible. There were also doves and grackles perched on the railings. It was difficult to get interesting photos of herons and gallinules in the water because of aiming down at them.

Well said. Boardwalks are convenient but shots looking down at birds from a boardwalk are rarely pleasing.

The trick is, as you say, to look for birds at eye level. They almost always will be there. You'll see people pointing their cameras down at the water from a boardwalk (and in moments of weakness I do this myself) but in general ... no, that doesn't work. Try to ignore those folks unless something really unusual is happening down there.

Like DRwyoming, I will also go down on one knee, and I have been known to lay down on a boardwalk.

 

[PhotoLover]

This was my first bird hunting trip, and I made all sorts of mistakes, correcting things as I went along.
I'll certainly check out "Steve's ebooks"; thanks for the link.
I have no idea what I want to capture - yet. Learning as go along.
I really need to learn about focusing.
I had one lens, a 70-300 Nikon "P" lens, and bought another yesterday at the camera shop that was working on my D3. Will post better information later today.
Don't apologize - I'm a beginner at this, and good advice is welcome!!

If you carefully read Steve's ebooks on wildlife and bird photography -- and they are not that long -- you will learn a vast amount quickly. Vast.

 

[mikemyers]

Well, everything good takes time. My next "expedition" will be in three weeks or so. For now, I'm reviewing my photos from last time, re-evaluating them again.
At some point I'm pretty sure I will get a lens a little longer than my 300.
Yes, I am watching Steve's information. Very, very helpful!!!!

 

[mikemyers]

There's a decision I need to make every time edit a bird photo.

Am I capturing a photo of this particular bird?

Or, am I capturing a photo of what this particular bird was doing at this moment in time.

(Everything I've learned in photography tells me to do the second choice, showing what was going on, not just a "snapshot".)

To me, the mud on the bird's beak enhances the image, rather than looking annoying.

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[DRwyoming]

Well, everything good takes time. My next "expedition" will be in three weeks or so. For now, I'm reviewing my photos from last time, re-evaluating them again.
At some point I'm pretty sure I will get a lens a little longer than my 300.
Yes, I am watching Steve's information. Very, very helpful!!!!

FWIW, a great way to get a lot of practice without bigger trips is to set up some bird feeders and perches in your yard if that's possible and photograph birds near home. If you're in the Americas, a hummingbird feeder is easy to install and maintain and can create some fantastic photo opportunities right at home so you don't have to wait so long between practice sessions.

If you have a local duck pond, especially one where folks feed the birds, that can be a great place to practice bird photography including flight photography without making big trips. Similarly something as common as Pigeons can make great photo subjects (catch them in the right light and their iridescent feathers really come alive with color) and great subjects to practice: exposure, perspective and composition, flight shots, etc. without waiting for big trips. Sure these aren't the most exotic subjects but get good at your craft and then you'll be ready when you make bigger trips and come across less common wildlife subjects.

I was taught a long time ago that one of the best things a photographer can do to learn the craft is find reasons to pick up the camera every day (or as often as practical) and capture some photos, any kind of photos. It doesn't matter very much if you shoot some squirrels in the yard or neighborhood pets or anything else, just get used to handling the camera and working all the controls in different situations.

That's a great way to get dialed in on all the camera controls, how to deal with different lighting and nail the exposure how to decide what you need or want in terms of shutter speed and aperture, how high you're willing to go with ISO for keeper shots, etc. Get to the point where the camera feels completely natural in your hand, you develop good habits (like check all the information in the viewfinder so you don't accidentally have a setting way off as you have a great subject in the viewfinder and end up missing the shots) and when you do take bigger trips your keeper rate is likely to be much higher.

 

[DRwyoming]

There's a decision I need to make every time edit a bird photo.

Am I capturing a photo of this particular bird?

Or, am I capturing a photo of what this particular bird was doing at this moment in time.

(Everything I've learned in photography tells me to do the second choice, showing what was going on, not just a "snapshot".)

To me, the mud on the bird's beak enhances the image, rather than looking annoying.

Nice shot of a cool subject!

I'd say there's plenty of room for both ID shots or more specifically shots of animals just being there in an interesting environment and behavioral or action shots. I've probably published way more of the former as folks like to see just plain perched bird shots or an Elk in a meadow or many other shots that don't necessarily depict a lot of behavior or action. That said, behavioral or action shots that tell more of a story can be more exciting and may make for more interesting images. I'm more likely to make a large print of an image like that and less likely to print a wildlife portrait at least of more common subjects unless the environment helps tell a bigger story.

Unless you're dead set against wildlife portraits I'd recommend shooting both types when the opportunities present themselves as a simple static wildlife portrait can be very pleasing and sometimes we just don't get a lot of action to shoot. We also learn a lot by trying to make the most of those more static portrait opportunities. We can then take those lessons forward into more action oriented shots. Shooting static subjects can teach us a lot about backgrounds, shooting perspective, composition, exposure, appropriate depth of field (especially with multiple subjects) and the like which we can take forward into action shooting scenarios.

 

[JoelKlein]

Z30 uses the same sensor?

 

[Cameron T]

Z30 uses the same sensor?

No? The d780 is an ff camera, the z30 is crop. I think the z6 does.

 

[mikemyers]

Question - regarding the photo I posted yesterday, people are criticizing me because the tail end of the bird is out of focus, and saying I should have used an aperture to keep the whole bird sharp. But, to do that, my "background", currently very un-sharp, will become much more distracting.

Was my choice wrong, and regardless of how much worse the background go, I should have stopped down more to keep the entire bird sharper?

 

[mikemyers]

Also, I think this YouTube video explains how I cause the Live View ML screen to use the new mirrorless techniques, using my D780, but I would need to use the rear screen, not the viewfinder.

Has anyone here tried this?

I suspect I will be happier using the D780 as a DSLR, but I guess I should check out how to use some of the new ML tools on the D780.

 

[Cameron T]

Question - regarding the photo I posted yesterday, people are criticizing me because the tail end of the bird is out of focus, and saying I should have used an aperture to keep the whole bird sharp. But, to do that, my "background", currently very un-sharp, will become much more distracting.

Was my choice wrong, and regardless of how much worse the background go, I should have stopped down more to keep the entire bird sharper?

Shoot what makes you happy. Right or wrong is up to the image you want to create.

 

[DRwyoming]

Question - regarding the photo I posted yesterday, people are criticizing me because the tail end of the bird is out of focus, and saying I should have used an aperture to keep the whole bird sharp. But, to do that, my "background", currently very un-sharp, will become much more distracting.

Was my choice wrong, and regardless of how much worse the background go, I should have stopped down more to keep the entire bird sharper?

Nope, nothing wrong with your choice on depth of field (DoF).

Generally speaking getting the eyes sharp and crisp in a wildlife shot is the part to pay attention to. Unless the whole body is important for telling the visual story (e.g. an ID shot) the eyes are what matter the most.

If you start getting very close to your subjects, physically, optically or both, so they fill the frame you'll likely find that it's tough and sometimes impossible to keep your entire subject sharp and crisp with a single shot. Macro photography is one example where you often can't stop down far enough to keep the entire subject sharp so we either shoot multiple images and focus stack them in post processing or we concentrate on the most important parts to keep in focus.

Here's an example of a Western Tanager that was very close to the minimum focusing distance on my 500mm lens filling a good portion of the frame and positioned right towards me. I worked on getting the eye in focus and am not bothered at all by having the tail feathers and even one foot out of focus.

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[mikemyers]

I found this video last night, about bird photography with the Nikon D780.
Very helpful!!!

He started with the D780, then moved on to the Z6 II, both of which use many of the same internals.

 

[mikemyers]

Here's an example of a Western Tanager that was very close to the minimum focusing distance on my 500mm lens filling a good portion of the frame and positioned right towards me. I worked on getting the eye in focus and am not bothered at all by having the tail feathers and even one foot out of focus.

I love your photo, and the tail being out of focus just helps push my eyes back to the head and eyes in your photo.

Yesterday, "James" at USA Nikon Tech Support figured out my settings issues. He may be the only person there who understands the D780.

I've also found there are two menu pages for Settings, one that applies to DSLR mode, and a different page, with different listings, once I select the Live View (mirrorless). My problem was that something I had selected in my DSLR settings was incompatible once I switched to Live View (mirrorless). Nobody at Nikon could figure this out, but James knew about it.

My goal is to be able to shoot my D780 in both configurations - DSLR and Live View (mirrorless).
In the first case, I am looking at the viewfinder.
In the second case, my eye is far back from the camera, with me looking at the Live View screen (from a distance, of course).
I'd like to test it both ways, then decide what works best for me, for different birds.

I'm going to stop discussing this in the regular forum, as everyone knows that I should never be watching the rear screen.
.......but the only viewfinder on my D780 is OVF, with no provision for EVF.