I hope there will be (more) card readers that can handle both XQD as CFe cards in the years of transition. I think the present XQD readers can't handle CFe cards.
CF Express has arrived for D5, D850 & D500
- Thread starter Pacific1976
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I would agree with you.
Dagny
Member
The update also had some fixes in addition to the CF card addition. I don't care about the CF card as I own several XQD cards. But I am considering installing the update for the fixes. Question: Has anyone experienced any problems as a result of installing this update?
Andy Work
Well-known member
I wonder if these firmware upgrades will hurt third party lens performance? I know in the past there have been problems which were taken care of with lens firmware upgrades.
Just checked BHPhoto (USA), and the lowest capacity CFExpress cards are 64G, lowest price $90. That's about the same as the current price for a 32G XQD. But, the Sony 128G XQD has come down to $113. CFExpress card readers start at around $50. Maybe we should all keep an eye out for closeouts on XQD cards in the not too distant future. Basically, there isn't a price point reason to start buying CFExpress cards yet, especially when you need to factor in a new card reader.
One goofy thing with the CFExpress cards is that they are mostly selling them in very high capacity. Nothing below 64G, and most of them are much higher. I say goofy because I have no need for a128G or larger card for photography. I suppose video users might make use of these larger capacity cards.
Anyway, the firmware update is welcome in terms of future compatibility, but it isn't going to send me off on a CFExpress spending spree.
One goofy thing with the CFExpress cards is that they are mostly selling them in very high capacity. Nothing below 64G, and most of them are much higher. I say goofy because I have no need for a128G or larger card for photography. I suppose video users might make use of these larger capacity cards.
Anyway, the firmware update is welcome in terms of future compatibility, but it isn't going to send me off on a CFExpress spending spree.
Graham Clark
gc-graphs
Installed the updates on D5, D850 and D500 today, not experienced any issues but not been able to try a CF-E card as yet (XQD cards still work just fine).
Re card readers, cfexpress readers should be compatible with XQD but not vice versa. Check the other thread on the forum re recommended computer connections
bcgforums.com
CF-Express Card Manufacturers - Which One?
Looking at getting a couple of CF-Express cards. On first take the ProGrade Gold series look good value vs spec but not used them before. Anyone got an opinion or experience of ProGrade vs SanDisk for example? Edit: Will be used primarily in a D5 but also D850 and D500
bcgforums.com
fcotterill
Well-known member
True to tradition, Nikon is circumspect about else they have tweaked in a firmware upgrade. This is additional to stated fixes/new features. So I always upgrade
Blew the cobwebs out of D850 SD slot to upgrade earlier this morning. (So only about the 4th time SD has ever been used in3+ years!).
No -ve incidents. Camera has all its vital signs, including 9fps on info panel.
My 2 Hahnel ENEL18 batteries also work fine - this is one potential risk that new f'ware might discombobulate 3rd party accessories (including lenses)
Blew the cobwebs out of D850 SD slot to upgrade earlier this morning. (So only about the 4th time SD has ever been used in3+ years!).
No -ve incidents. Camera has all its vital signs, including 9fps on info panel.
My 2 Hahnel ENEL18 batteries also work fine - this is one potential risk that new f'ware might discombobulate 3rd party accessories (including lenses)
fcotterill
Well-known member
Note: if upgradng a D500 from older Fw than v1.20 you have to run the installation process twice
Walter Baliero
Member
I don't use a card reader to transfer QXD files from my D850 to the computer, I just do it by cable. My question is: after updating the firmware and using the CFExpress, will I be able to continue using the cable or will I need a card reader?
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arbitrage
Well-known member
Data point:
D500 on FW 1.3:
128GB Sony XQD: runs up to the artificial 200 shot buffer as expected
256GB Transcend CFExpress card...FPS stutters/slows at ~62 shots.
I've read a few other reports of CFExpress cards not matching XQD with the new FW.
Some did better than my Transcend card though. One guy got about 152 shots on D500 with a Prograde 128GB Gold CFe card.
D500 on FW 1.3:
128GB Sony XQD: runs up to the artificial 200 shot buffer as expected
256GB Transcend CFExpress card...FPS stutters/slows at ~62 shots.
I've read a few other reports of CFExpress cards not matching XQD with the new FW.
Some did better than my Transcend card though. One guy got about 152 shots on D500 with a Prograde 128GB Gold CFe card.
Festus
New member
The only reason to buy a CFe card for one of these cameras would be if down the road XQD cards were no longer made. I would expect by that time the cameras would be so outdated that few would be using them. An expert from another blog stated: don't expect any speed increases with the CFe cards in the D5, D500, or the D850. The slot mechanism of these cameras have a fixed upper limit that dates to early XQD.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Well-known member
Then there are the plug differences. Obviously, moving on from type-A needed to happen, but then USB3 blue went to USB-C. And if that's not enough, there's mini vs. micro, OTG or not, and more.
It's a mess.
Bigmo
Well-known member
Just an FYI, I installed update on both my D500 s ,I have a Tamron 70-200 G2 and Sigma 50-100 and everything works fine. I have no CFEXPRESS card to try. I m really fine with my Sony XQD cards and readers, not looking to abandon them for no real performance gain.
For the sake of balance, here are the reasons why someone might want to use CFExpress cards in their D5/D500/D850. Some of these are most relevant if you have a Nikon Z camera.
- 3-4 times faster download speed with CFExpress
- Ability to share CFExpress cards between a D500/D850 and a Z cameras and the D6
- In a DSLR/Z system, allow use of just a CFExpress reader if you use just CFExpress cards
- There is a CFExpress dual card reader with SD UHS-II (Pro-Grade Media) but dual XQD/CFExpress readers are a little more expensive ($20+ more than XQD/CFExpress)
- Lower cost of CFExpress cards / more suppliers (lower cost per GB)
- Improving availability of CFExpress compared to XQD (12 manufacturers rather than just 2)
- CFExpress available in very large sizes (mainly for video)
- Future Proofing by buying cards that will perform best in future cameras
My short term suggestion is to upgrade the firmware so you can use CFExpress, and to buy CFExpress instead of XQD cards going forward.
The tougher question is which card to buy. There are over a dozen card manufacturers, each with 1-2 product lines of CFExpress cards, and each of those has 3-5 different card sizes. In all, there are probably 50 cards to choose from. Performance differs depending on the manufacturer, product line, and card size.
My suggestion for now is to look closely at the specs to make sure you know what you are buying. If in doubt, buy a higher grade card such as the Delkin Power card, Prograde Cobalt, or Sony Tough. You don't want to buy a low cost card and find the card limits future speed to below XQD levels.
Graham Clark
gc-graphs
Had the Sony Tough 128GB CF-e card arrive this morning and tried in both D500 bodies. No problems at all racing straight up to the 200 frame buffer limit with 14-bit lossless compressed RAW files.
Updating the firmware will not affect your ability to use a cable to transfer images to your computer. You don't need a reader. But you are missing one of the biggest benefits of CFExpress cards (and XQD for that matter) by using a cable rather than a separate reader. Download speed is slower using a cable, and would be 4-8 times faster using a card reader.
When you run a CFExpress card in the D850 or D500 it's running in compatibility mode. The card manufacturer determines the way the card works in compatibility mode. Some cards are likely to be very slow - as described. It's going to take a while for us to find out how various cards perform in compatibility mode.
We had the same issue with some of the SD UHS-II cards. Some of them were exceptionally slow in compatibility mode with measured speeds under 39 MB/s. At the time, full SD UHS-II performance was over 150 MB/s in compatible cameras and top UHS-I cards would write at 72 MB/s. So speeds were about 25% of normal speeds in compatibility mode. For example, in the D750 the Sandisk Extreme Pro 90 MB/s SD UHS-I card is the fastest with an actual write speed of 69 MB/s, but the more recent Sandisk Extreme Pro 280 MB/s SD UHS-II card has an in-camera speed of just 38 MB/s. The UHS-I card costs just $13 while the UHS-II card costs $69.
arbitrage
Well-known member
Good to know. That Sony is one of the top performing CFe cards where as my Transcend is not. Of course having paid only $192 USD for 256GB makes up for that
But I am going to test in outdoor light today and not at ISO 8000 to see if that helps my cards performance.My testing is just out of curiosity. The D500 will be my one and only XQD camera and it will keep my XQD cards. My CFe card is for my R5 and it works good enough in it (although won't do more than 30s of 8KRAW or 4K120 video).
arbitrage
Well-known member
For anyone looking to buy CFExpress cards to future proof here are a few tests that can help with a decision:
camnostic.com
alikgriffin.com
CFexpress Cards - Camnostic
Using the Canon EOS R5, the best selling CFexpress cards are measured and compared against real-world performance factors.
camnostic.com
Best Memory Cards Canon R5 - With Real Benchmarks | Alik Griffin
The ultimate guide to finding the best CFexpress and UHS-II SD memory cards for the Canon R5, with real in-camera benchmarks.
alikgriffin.com
Andy Work
Well-known member
I have some Sigma lenses and was concerned about that. Thanks for letting us know.
Pacific1976
Member
If you must get a CF Express card now there is a good deal in a very large card: ProGrade Digital 256GB CFexpress 2.0 Gold Memory PGCFX256GAPBH (bhphotovideo.com)
Pacific1976
Member
Is speed your question: NIKON D850 CFEXPRESS Firmware Update Buffer TEST - YouTube
Interesting but inconclusive. Which Sony card was being used? Which XQD card? What camera settings that affect processing and write speed?
Sony makes two different CFExpress cards - and one is faster than the other. In addition, larger cards would be faster for nearly all brands. Sony has made several different XQD cards - the M card is extremely slow, but others are faster. There are also a few camera settings that impact processing speed and therefore frame rate. The video stated 7 fps and 9 fps - but was that actually the rate achieved?
I'm in favor of using CFExpress if you are buying a card. But you need to buy the right card to avoid a performance penalty. For example, you want the ProGrade Digital Cobalt - not the Gold - and you want a larger card for optimum speed. With most brands, the 120/128 GB cards are not the high performance cards.