Choosing Z7ii over a Z8/Z9

[Kenny88]

Looking at my subjects that I primarily focus on, it's static birds and wildlife that don't move fast like birds in flight. I'm therefore debating now whether I should park the consideration of the Z8 and stick with a Z7ii. I will then have a full frame camera able to go to DX mode.

I also do landscapes as well, but that's a small portion of my photography.

I don't know if there's a new Z7 model coming up, but if there is I don't think waiting is an option. Much like the 200-600mm at over 4 years of waiting is the most ridiculous timeframe I've come across.

I'm using a Z50 to serve as my crop sensor wildlife camera - since having thus my D500 has been collecting dust.

The other thought is spend the money to get the 200-600mm (over the 100-400mm) and use it on the Z50, and get the Z6ii or Z7ii as another body for wildlife and landscapes, while using then as well for non BIF action photography.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[abc123brian]

If you are really happy with the focusing abilities of your Z50, you would be happy with the Z7ii. It doesn‘t sound like you will take advantage of many of the things offered by the Z8 over the Z7ii. One thing that annoys me with the Z7ii and lower Z cameras is not being able to add a different focus method to a custom button. This is something I had hoped would come through firmware update but never did. AF subject tracking does help a lot with following slow moving subjects around the frame. It makes your job easier most of the time and something I think you would enjoy. The other features of the Z8 sound like they wouldn’t benefit you much. I used a Z7 and later a Z7ii before getting a Z9 and they are great cameras, especially for landscape. The AF isn‘t very advanced, basically the same level as your Z50.

 

[Kenny88]

If you are really happy with the focusing abilities of your Z50, you would be happy with the Z7ii. It doesn‘t sound like you will take advantage of many of the things offered by the Z8 over the Z7ii. One thing that annoys me with the Z7ii and lower Z cameras is not being able to add a different focus method to a custom button. This is something I had hoped would come through firmware update but never did. AF subject tracking does help a lot with following slow moving subjects around the frame. It makes your job easier most of the time and something I think you would enjoy. The other features of the Z8 sound like they wouldn’t benefit you much. I used a Z7 and later a Z7ii before getting a Z9 and they are great cameras, especially for landscape. The AF isn‘t very advanced, basically the same level as your Z50.

Thanks for the feedback. I've used the Z50 for some BIF, and believe it or not, manage to get some clear shots in. I used Auto AF mode for that. Even for "Slow" objects that move, the Z50 is able to track properly, but of course for real BIF shooting, don't even bother trying. That's a great point in that having a larger real estate to work with allows more room to track a moving object, which on a DX sensor, it does pose challenges especially with high focal length lens like 500mm.

Since you got the Z9, how are you using the Z7ii nowadays?

 

[abc123brian]

I have seen many post of real BIF with the lesser cameras, including some swallows in flight that look just as good as the ones I see posted on this forum so they are capable, but do require a lot more effort and skill. My issue with the Z9, and I knew before getting it, is the size. So my Z7ii is my go to camera whenever I don’t want to carry the Z9 like travel and for landscape. It serves as a general purpose camera, but often I end up missing a few features from the Z9. I have a Z8 preordered and expect it will become my go to camera for everything since it gives the Z9 performance in a smaller body. For wildlife, I primarily shoot mammals and some birds.

 

[EricBowles]

From my perspective, the big advantages of the Z8 are fast action performance, Eye and subject AF, real time EVF, and improved video. There are a lot of other improvements, but those are the major advances over the Z7ii.

For perched subjects, the Z7ii is very good. Eye AF would be a positive, but my guess is it won't have a huge impact on your success rate. You still need to select the right AF mode and technique, respond quickly to the situation, and have a subject that is reasonably visible in the frame.

I have the Z7ii and the Z50 (for my wife). The Z7ii is definitely a step up from the Z50 - more responsive and better AF performance. You can still use a crop mode in the Z7ii. I don't think there are many scenarios where a Z50 is preferred above the Z7ii outside of weight, price, and size. You can shoot the Z7ii like a Z50, but not the reverse.

Lens choices are interesting. The 100-400 is a very good lens with close focusing capability. But you also have the 400mm f/4.5 and the 800mm PF for wildlife. For birds, you may never have enough reach.

I'm expecting to see the 200-600 soon, but who knows. I thought that a year ago. It's got to be close to release since it will be paired with an action camera like the Z8 or a new FX or DX camera.

 

[John Navitsky]

if the z7ii isn’t lacking for what you shoot, then no reason not to go that way.

the only caveat i’ll add is if you do intend to get one of the newer cameras with the newer af system at some time in the future AND you plan on having it at the same time as the older versions, it can be disorienting to switch back and forth. especially when doing it back to back. this is one of the reasons i’m trading my z6ii for a z8

 

[NorthernFocus]

If you are really happy with the focusing abilities of your Z50, you would be happy with the Z7ii. It doesn‘t sound like you will take advantage of many of the things offered by the Z8 over the Z7ii...

My thoughts as well. If you've been happy with the Z50 surely the Z7ii will be that and more. Plus sensor performance at ISO500 and below is actually better on the Z7/ii than the Z8/9. The only caveat is that if your interest in shooting BIF/action increases you'll end up having to go to the Z8 eventually.

 

[DRM]

If you can swing the money I would recommend the Z8. For me the Z9 gives a much more pleasurable shooting experience than the 2nd Gen Z bodies did with the button layout, improved customization, shooting banks, blackout free EVF, animal/wildlife eye AF, 3d tracking, much higher frame rates, on and on. Undoubtedly you can get great shots with something other than a Z8 or Z9, but undoubtedly you will get more great shots with a Z8 or Z9. Shooting at 20 FPS you’re more likely to capture unique poses or looks or situations like birds grabbing bugs in their beaks, animals licking their noses, or winking at you and such, things you won’t even see with the naked eye. Also, the eye AF and the way it detects and follows the subjects, and 3d tracking, makes framing shots so much quicker. For me, the Z9 was easily two to three times the camera the Z6 II was. I doubt you would be disappointed in a Z8.

 

[MrFotoFool]

In terms of resolution and image quality they seem to be the same, so no issue there. Here are the factors that I think would help make a decision.

SIZE. The Z7ii is small and the Z8 is larger. If you have small hands you may prefer the Z7ii but I have large hands and would not be able to use it without an attached battery grip, whereas the Z8 I could use gripless.

STARTUP. I rented a Z7ii and the lag time to startup from sleep mode was awful, rendering it (in my opinion) unuseable for wildlife. I missed a coyote running through an arroyo because the camera was too slow to wake up when I pressed the shutter. However if you only do static subjects (birds that are already perched) it may not matter.

FOCUS. The Z7ii worked fine when I rented it and for static subjects there shouldn't be a difference. But for birds in flight or other action subjects the more advanced focus tracking of the Z8 will be an advantage.

 

[John Woodworth]

I have the Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z9. I ordered the Z8. I shoot events for clients which is why I will have the Z8 and Z9. But, I also use the other two professionally without hesitation. The main limitation for the Z6/7ii's is with fast action/rapidly changing scenes. With skill and practice, this limitation will become smaller.

The Z8 and Z9 are more capable cameras, but that comes at a price, both literally and figuratively. In the use cases you have proposed there will be little difference in utility or image quality.

In a few minutes, I am leaving for a motorcycle ride with a friend...I will be taking the Z7ii. The Z9 is just too bulky. I traveled with the Z7ii/6ii's in the Middle East and not the Z9 even though I had the choice. Won some prizes with the resulting photos. Only once wished for the Z9 when we were shooting falcons...Got a good shot anyway.

Buy the Z7ii and spend the difference on the fantastic S glass.

 

[Kenny88]

I have the Z6ii, Z7ii, and Z9. I ordered the Z8. I shoot events for clients which is why I will have the Z8 and Z9. But, I also use the other two professionally without hesitation. The main limitation for the Z6/7ii's is with fast action/rapidly changing scenes. With skill and practice, this limitation will become smaller.

The Z8 and Z9 are more capable cameras, but that comes at a price, both literally and figuratively. In the use cases you have proposed there will be little difference in utility or image quality.

In a few minutes, I am leaving for a motorcycle ride with a friend...I will be taking the Z7ii. The Z9 is just too bulky. I traveled with the Z7ii/6ii's in the Middle East and not the Z9 even though I had the choice. Won some prizes with the resulting photos. Only once wished for the Z9 when we were shooting falcons...Got a good shot anyway.

Buy the Z7ii and spend the difference on the fantastic S glass.

That's great to hear from someone that has all 3 bodies and soon to be the Z8 - must be nice! In your use case, when would you choose between the Z7ii versus the Z6ii? You're right - I rather put the $$ into the lens. Ie. 24-120mm S to start.

 

[Kenny88]

In terms of resolution and image quality they seem to be the same, so no issue there. Here are the factors that I think would help make a decision.

SIZE. The Z7ii is small and the Z8 is larger. If you have small hands you may prefer the Z7ii but I have large hands and would not be able to use it without an attached battery grip, whereas the Z8 I could use gripless.

STARTUP. I rented a Z7ii and the lag time to startup from sleep mode was awful, rendering it (in my opinion) unuseable for wildlife. I missed a coyote running through an arroyo because the camera was too slow to wake up when I pressed the shutter. However if you only do static subjects (birds that are already perched) it may not matter.

FOCUS. The Z7ii worked fine when I rented it and for static subjects there shouldn't be a difference. But for birds in flight or other action subjects the more advanced focus tracking of the Z8 will be an advantage.

The startup is that slow??? I didn't even think of that. I could imagine how annoying that would be. Are you referring to as well the power up time of the camera when it's off, or is it the same as in sleep mode?

 

[Kenny88]

If you can swing the money I would recommend the Z8. For me the Z9 gives a much more pleasurable shooting experience than the 2nd Gen Z bodies did with the button layout, improved customization, shooting banks, blackout free EVF, animal/wildlife eye AF, 3d tracking, much higher frame rates, on and on. Undoubtedly you can get great shots with something other than a Z8 or Z9, but undoubtedly you will get more great shots with a Z8 or Z9. Shooting at 20 FPS you’re more likely to capture unique poses or looks or situations like birds grabbing bugs in their beaks, animals licking their noses, or winking at you and such, things you won’t even see with the naked eye. Also, the eye AF and the way it detects and follows the subjects, and 3d tracking, makes framing shots so much quicker. For me, the Z9 was easily two to three times the camera the Z6 II was. I doubt you would be disappointed in a Z8.

It's a lot of money....and that's just the body itself I need to think about for one, and need the lens to go with it. I only have the 200-500mm, and the old 300mm ED lens, which I can use with the Z8, but I'd still need an everyday use lens for it, and that'll add another $1000+

 

[Kenny88]

From my perspective, the big advantages of the Z8 are fast action performance, Eye and subject AF, real time EVF, and improved video. There are a lot of other improvements, but those are the major advances over the Z7ii.

For perched subjects, the Z7ii is very good. Eye AF would be a positive, but my guess is it won't have a huge impact on your success rate. You still need to select the right AF mode and technique, respond quickly to the situation, and have a subject that is reasonably visible in the frame.

I have the Z7ii and the Z50 (for my wife). The Z7ii is definitely a step up from the Z50 - more responsive and better AF performance. You can still use a crop mode in the Z7ii. I don't think there are many scenarios where a Z50 is preferred above the Z7ii outside of weight, price, and size. You can shoot the Z7ii like a Z50, but not the reverse.

Lens choices are interesting. The 100-400 is a very good lens with close focusing capability. But you also have the 400mm f/4.5 and the 800mm PF for wildlife. For birds, you may never have enough reach.

I'm expecting to see the 200-600 soon, but who knows. I thought that a year ago. It's got to be close to release since it will be paired with an action camera like the Z8 or a new FX or DX camera.

I almost got the 100-400mm last year, but the 400mm I think is too short - I could have got a TC with it, but I didn't want to go that route, so I decided to wait for the 200-600mm, but have loss the patience ever since. But there's hope, as rumors have it that June/July we'll see it.

Question is for Z8/Z9 users, would the lens be able to focus as fast as needed.

I travelled with the Z50 and must say that the small size is a luxury. That with the super sharp 16-50mm 'kit' lens delivered super images.

 

[abc123brian]

The startup is that slow??? I didn't even think of that. I could imagine how annoying that would be. Are you referring to as well the power up time of the camera when it's off, or is it the same as in sleep mode?

From my experience, he has to be talking about sleep mode which seems slower than Power on time. the issue with waking it up from sleep is that you usually have the camera to your eye when you press a button to wake it up, then have to wait for it to power up. I adjust the sleep time to a longer timeout and when I’m not shooting or potentially about to shoot, turn the camera off. Then when I want to shoot, flip the power switch on as I’m bringing the camera to my eye and have never had the camera still powering on by the time I get it there. Mirrorless are different than DSLR when it comes to sleeping and you have to make a few adjustments.

 

[John Navitsky]

yah, i don't use sleep mode at all. i'll tell you when to sleep, thank you very much! :-D

 

[EricBowles]

The startup is that slow??? I didn't even think of that. I could imagine how annoying that would be. Are you referring to as well the power up time of the camera when it's off, or is it the same as in sleep mode?

I've extensively tested waking the camera from sleep mode. You need to touch the shutter release to wake the camera at the first sign of action. If you do that, it's virtually impossible to have your eye at the EVF before the camera is awake - regardless of whether you are holding the camera or have it on a tripod with your finger near the shutter. The camera has never once been slower than getting my eye to the EVF with this approach.

Now if you fail to modify your technique, I can't help. It is an electronic viewfinder and the power needs to be turned on for it to work.

 

[John Woodworth]

I've extensively tested waking the camera from sleep mode. You need to touch the shutter release to wake the camera at the first sign of action. If you do that, it's virtually impossible to have your eye at the EVF before the camera is awake - regardless of whether you are holding the camera or have it on a tripod with your finger near the shutter. The camera has never once been slower than getting my eye to the EVF with this approach.

Now if you fail to modify your technique, I can't help. It is an electronic viewfinder and the power needs to be turned on for it to work.

I agree. I habitually push the shutter halfway while raising it to my eye. This is just not a real problem.

 

[splatbass]

when I want to shoot, flip the power switch on as I’m bringing the camera to my eye and have never had the camera still powering on by the time I get it there. Mirrorless are different than DSLR when it comes to sleeping and you have to make a few adjustments.

This is my experience also.

 

[John Woodworth]

That's great to hear from someone that has all 3 bodies and soon to be the Z8 - must be nice! In your use case, when would you choose between the Z7ii versus the Z6ii? You're right - I rather put the $$ into the lens. Ie. 24-120mm S to start.

Originally, the Z6ii had better focusing in low light, which a lot of nightclubs have and it was very noticeable. With the latest round of firmware updates, I'm not sure how true that is anymore.

I shoot them pretty much interchangeably these days. Unless there is need to crop extensively or do transforms to reduce distortion, there is not much difference for most practical cases. The higher resolution of the Z7ii does give more flexibility in recomposing after the fact, provided the lighting was decent in the original shot. I favor the Z7ii over the 6, say, for portraits or other times where the lighting is good, but really haven't done a detailed comparison. Theoretically, with good light, more pixels should result in smoother tonalities for large prints.