Comments about "not liking" the "file handling system" in LrC

[Viathelens]

In another forum a couple of people mentioned the file handling system in LrC and that they did not "like it." It's hard for me to understand what someone would not like about it as it is so versatile and very easy to use in multiple ways. The young men who designed the application were photographers and they designed it to meet the specific needs of many genres of photograph, from weddings to sports to newspaper use. Maybe they made it a little too complex in some ways for some people but the craft of photography these days is complex and we just have to deal with it the best way we can. My reply in that other thread is below and I'd like to hear comments about this subject as noted in the last line below.

So interesting, all of our differences....I find the LrC file handling to be very easy and excellent at what it can provide. I find the workflow from within LrC using plug-ins to also be excellent and very easy. I just edited about 20 individual shots to create a star trail using PS. From LrC I simply popped each individual image into PS, did the needed edits, and then popped the image back into LrC. When each one was edited than I opened a file in PS using the create separate layers option for the images. The only issue with that was that LrC would only export about 5 images at time so I had to do it multiple times ( a total of 25 images) and then combine the images into one file. In PS I did what needed to be done to create the star trail, saved it as a large document file and then saved a tiff and everything went back into LrC. I don't know how any program could be more efficient than LrC at file handling. The search and keyword functions allow me to find an image within seconds as does the metadata search function. I wonder if the difference is that people who use it don't know its full capability? It seems to me that a lot of people use software and they only know a few things about it, but knowing your chosen software fully allows you process the most effectively and the fastest. I do a lot of adding background texture layers using PS and LrC makes this so very easy to do because of its excellent file handling system.

I would be interested to know what in the file handling system does not work well for people. I often write articles on LrC for publishing and this might make a good topic to write about.

 

[Ed Erkes]

Im a longtime user of Adobe Bridge, Camera Raw, and Photoshop. I've become very comfortable with it and have had almost no problems with it over the years. I've considered switching to Lightroom Classic several times, but in the end decided against it. I don't want to spend a lot of time learning a new method when what I am using is working fine. I'd rather spend my time learning new things more related to the creative side of photography. I bought Victoria Bampton's Lightroom Classic: The Missing FAQ, but as I read it, it seemed to raise more questions than it answered.

I think part of the issue is I continually see a lot of questions in forums about lost files and missing or corrupted catalogs. I've never had these kinds of problems with Bridge.

What books or videos would you recommend for learning Lightroom? If I were to commit to switching over to Lightroom, is it easy to switch back if I don't like it?How would I copy my editing settings of images developed in Lightroom to adobe camera raw?

 

[Graham Clark]

What books or videos would you recommend for learning Lightroom?

Been using LR for years but learnt so much from @Steve LR Library Module tutorial series

 

[Replytoken]

The young men who designed the application..

Most of the men and women (i.e. Melissa Gaul) who designed and contributed were not necessarily that young, but I like the sentiment!

Now, on a more serious note, I have been a LR user for 13 years and switched to it just after it was released. I did not read the post that you referred to as there was no link, ubt I can tell you from being a Lightroom Queen forum user and moderator that there are a number of common issues that come up consistently over the years, and how LR handles files is one of them. Lightroom is a bit of an "acquired taste" and uses what I refer to as "Adobe logic". It follows a vastly different UI paradigm that was quite unique at launch, and has now been borrowed from over the years by lots of programs. But, most of these programs do not require importing, and that is a big difference, as few programs "import" images but do not actually pull them into the program. LRC's (Classic) import is actually just a cataloging of the image and its location. There is no importing of the file into the program where it is then handled by LRC. This confuses a lot of folks because most program do not offer many DAM functions and do not need to track the location of the file(s). It is hard to pickup LRC without any training and just wing it, and many folks just do not want to spend the time learning it.

I feel the same way about PS as I never learned it, and find programs like it (e.g. Affinity Publisher) quite frustrating, mostly because I do not understand the logic behind the program. If I had started with PS, I am not sure that I would have used LR, but then again, I was drawn to LR for its DAM features as much as its raw converter. And, I am not much for image manipulation beyond what was normally done in a darkroom.

--Ken

 

[Viathelens]

At 67 I'm starting to think of the concept of young differently . I do assume, however, they were actually all ages. And all extremely talented individuals. I know that Mark Hamburg worked with Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe as well as Martin Evening (who puts out a really good book on LrC) and they mention some other people who helped them write their book and that they worked with. It seems that everyone in those days was excited and working together to get programs out. Fraser and Schewe were involved in the sharpening aspects of the Adobe software, PS and LrC it seems, according to their book "Image Sharpening," which is a good book to read on the subject, older but still relevant.

So the "import" concept, you think, is one issue with some people? I also use PS but used LrC first although I did take classes on PS after i learned LrC. I was first introduced to PS years ago but did not use it then. I guess I have an "adobe" brain as I find the software fairly easy to pick up. I do think there are different ways that brains process information and that can affect how comfortable one is with a piece of software or any software for that matter.

 

[Replytoken]

I am not that far behind you, so I share your concept of young. I learned to adapt to LR quickly as I was not that invested in other software at the time, but I do think that parts of the UI could get a bit of a makeover, but with LR and LRC on potentially convergent paths, I do not see that happening until there is a major update to the LR family.

I think that both Adobe and subscription software are hot topics that draw a lot of passion out of people, and I am not going to touch the latter issue since it is a personal decision and everybody has to come to terms with what works for them. In the end, programs are just tools, and folks need to find what works best for them. If folks do not like one tool, I suggest trying something else. Life is short, and I do not get any commission based on what folks use, so I try to avoid unproductive discussions when possible (I am not referring to this one, but many that crop up over time and do not lead to productive conversations). Your question is a good one and if you have not looked at some of the threads at LR Queen, I suggest doing so. We have a lot of new user posts, and reading them can give you a lot of insight as to the challenges of using LR as a new user.

--Ken

 

[gordon_g]

My biggest grip is having to import files into the program... I already have them on my PC I shouldn't have to import them I should just be able to open them. now I have even more HD space taken up because I have a "database" in LR. I don't need or want a program to sort my photos I'm more of the OCD type that like things the way I like them.. so I'm sure that plays a huge part.

The only reason I use LR are the sliders are more convenient than doing the same than in Photoshop. Otherwise I'm using photoshop 99% of the time.

 

[Replytoken]

My biggest grip is having to import files into the program... I already have them on my PC I shouldn't have to import them I should just be able to open them. now I have even more HD space taken up because I have a "database" in LR. I don't need or want a program to sort my photos I'm more of the OCD type that like things the way I like them.. so I'm sure that plays a huge part.

The only reason I use LR are the sliders are more convenient than doing the same than in Photoshop. Otherwise I'm using photoshop 99% of the time.

Case in point. We all come to LR with different preferences and have different expectations. I am not sure what you want would be possible given that LR stores all changes in its database, but it does illustrate the challenges/frustrations of "importing" for many users.

--Ken

 

[Viathelens]

My biggest grip is having to import files into the program... I already have them on my PC I shouldn't have to import them I should just be able to open them. now I have even more HD space taken up because I have a "database" in LR. I don't need or want a program to sort my photos I'm more of the OCD type that like things the way I like them.. so I'm sure that plays a huge part.

The only reason I use LR are the sliders are more convenient than doing the same than in Photoshop. Otherwise I'm using photoshop 99% of the time.

LrC does not actually "import" any images. The "import" function is a link function as well as a function that places a folder of images onto your desktop or a hard drive where you have instructed the program that the folder should go to. The program does not sort your images unless you instruct it to do so in some way. You control where images are placed at all times and the program simply links to these images on your desktop or hard drive. The only database in LrC is a metadata database that allows you to use the metadata to sort images and holds your processing instructions. Your images are never "in" LrC at any time.

 

[Viathelens]

Im a longtime user of Adobe Bridge, Camera Raw, and Photoshop. I've become very comfortable with it and have had almost no problems with it over the years. I've considered switching to Lightroom Classic several times, but in the end decided against it. I don't want to spend a lot of time learning a new method when what I am using is working fine. I'd rather spend my time learning new things more related to the creative side of photography. I bought Victoria Bampton's Lightroom Classic: The Missing FAQ, but as I read it, it seemed to raise more questions than it answered.

I think part of the issue is I continually see a lot of questions in forums about lost files and missing or corrupted catalogs. I've never had these kinds of problems with Bridge.

What books or videos would you recommend for learning Lightroom? If I were to commit to switching over to Lightroom, is it easy to switch back if I don't like it?How would I copy my editing settings of images developed in Lightroom to adobe camera raw?

If you like what you are currently using and it is working for you then why change? However, if you want to try something new then LrC, or many other programs, might be something to look at. When people say "lightroom lost my folders or photos" what they mean is they failed to instruct the program to do something. The program simply needs to be instructed correctly and then the images would not be lost. The most difficult module for most people is the Library Module and this is the heart of LrC, it is the module where you manage all of your images and then you use the other modules to do very specific things. If you are interested in knowing more about LrC the best thing to do is to read the Adobe online help manual, in particular anything having to do with the Library Module. Once you understand this module the rest is easy. A good book is the Martin Evening book on lightroom, he is very orderly in presenting the information. If you did use LrC you need to understand that all edits are contained in the catalog unless you tell the program to save your edits to that file, you can do this using the save command or in preferences, then you can use the file with all the changes in Bridge, camera raw or most other software.

 

[gordon_g]

LrC does not actually "import" any images. The "import" function is a link function as well as a function that places a folder of images onto your desktop or a hard drive where you have instructed the program that the folder should go to. The program does not sort your images unless you instruct it to do so in some way. You control where images are placed at all times and the program simply links to these images on your desktop or hard drive. The only database in LrC is a metadata database that allows you to use the metadata to sort images and holds your processing instructions. Your images are never "in" LrC at any time.

Which makes the import feature even more senseless to me as you can’t open a file until it imported.... it just adds another unnecessary step.

 

[SBurkholder]

If you like what you are currently using and it is working for you then why change? However, if you want to try something new then LrC, or many other programs, might be something to look at. When people say "lightroom lost my folders or photos" what they mean is they failed to instruct the program to do something. The program simply needs to be instructed correctly and then the images would not be lost. The most difficult module for most people is the Library Module and this is the heart of LrC, it is the module where you manage all of your images and then you use the other modules to do very specific things. If you are interested in knowing more about LrC the best thing to do is to read the Adobe online help manual, in particular anything having to do with the Library Module. Once you understand this module the rest is easy. A good book is the Martin Evening book on lightroom, he is very orderly in presenting the information. If you did use LrC you need to understand that all edits are contained in the catalog unless you tell the program to save your edits to that file, you can do this using the save command or in preferences, then you can use the file with all the changes in Bridge, camera raw or most other software.

I agree with you that LRs catalog is the heart of the program. Bridge nor PS have its capabilities in this area. The program allows you to tag all of your images with as many attributes as you would like. It also allows you make sure you don’t have multiple copies of your images scattered across your hard drives. Everything else can be done in PS and done better. Some images can be finished in LR if there aren’t too many issues with the image. But if I’m going to print an image, I’ll invariably take it in to PS for final processing. But LR can get you close and can easily process a bunch of images to give you at least an idea of what you are dealing with. With PS and Bridge, you can easily wind up with multiple copies of images, that months later when you are trying to figure out which was the latest one, you wind up searching across your hardrives for an hour or more. Been there and done that.
Another nifty feature is cataloging people in snapshots. LR has the ability to do face recognition automatically and tag images with names. Want all of your images of little Johnny from age 9 to 12? LR can do that for you. I suppose you could do that in bridge as well, but you would need to be terribly organized.
During my working years we would put out a catalog annually. Each catalog would take several thousand images. Trying to process and keep track of the images in Bridge alone was a nightmare.
I agree with other comments that Martin Evening’s book is an excellent place to start and as a reference for later on.

 

[Replytoken]

LrC does not actually "import" any images. The "import" function is a link function as well as a function that places a folder of images onto your desktop or a hard drive where you have instructed the program that the folder should go to. The program does not sort your images unless you instruct it to do so in some way. You control where images are placed at all times and the program simply links to these images on your desktop or hard drive. The only database in LrC is a metadata database that allows you to use the metadata to sort images and holds your processing instructions. Your images are never "in" LrC at any time.

I am suspecting that gordon_g is aware of this, but that is just not his style of working with images. My read of his post is that he prefers the Develop module in LRC, but does not really want any of the DAM features. One could suggest using Bridge and Camera Raw, as ACR is the common denominator, but the layout and UI is not the same.

--Ken

 

[gordon_g]

I am suspecting that gordon_g is aware of this, but that is just not his style of working with images. My read of his post is that he prefers the Develop module in LRC, but does not really want any of the DAM features. One could suggest using Bridge and Camera Raw, as ACR is the common denominator, but the layout and UI is not the same.

--Ken

exactly you pretty much nailed it...doesnt make LRC bad, just not great for me.

 

[ingweDave]

I use LRC and am happy with it. The biggest change for me was taking the advise of a few pro photographers I know and using Photo Mechanic to import, cull and add data, prior to transferring to LRC. Certainly speeds up importing.

 

[SBurkholder]

I haven’t heard of Photo Mechanic. I’ll take a look at it. The one thing that makes the Nikon pgm appealingly to me is that you can turn on focus points. I use it sometimes just for that feature alone. But then you are spending twice the effort by “importing” them into the Nikon pgm and then again into LR. Sometimes I find it helpful to know what the camera was focusing on vs where I thought it was focusing.

 

[gordon_g]

I haven’t heard of Photo Mechanic. I’ll take a look at it. The one thing that makes the Nikon pgm appealingly to me is that you can turn on focus points. I use it sometimes just for that feature alone. But then you are spending twice the effort by “importing” them into the Nikon pgm and then again into LR. Sometimes I find it helpful to know what the camera was focusing on vs where I thought it was focusing.

I do the same thing to see if I just missed or what... very useful at times!

 

[Graham Clark]

I used Photo Mechanic for a few years but for my work flow a properly set up LR system is just as quick. Photo Mechanic is great if you're, for example, captioning a rugby match and need a quick reference for each of the 30 players. For more general stuff I found that setting up LR synonyms and the key word hierarchy correctly made it as quick as Photo Mechanic. @Steve has a really good video tutorial on the LR Library Module!

 

[Graham Clark]

Which makes the import feature even more senseless to me as you can’t open a file until it imported.... it just adds another unnecessary step.

I just import from the card reader via LR, still puts the RAW file into my C Drive folder structure.

 

[ingweDave]

I used Photo Mechanic for a few years but for my work flow a properly set up LR system is just as quick. Photo Mechanic is great if you're, for example, captioning a rugby match and need a quick reference for each of the 30 players. For more general stuff I found that setting up LR synonyms and the key word hierarchy correctly made it as quick as Photo Mechanic. @Steve has a really good video tutorial on the LR Library Module!

Agreed and I really enjoyed Steve's LR Tutorials. I think my main problem is needing a more powerful PC. After a long photo shoot I can ingest into Photo Mechanic and then to LRC faster than directly into LRC. I do like the templates for detailed data in PM, which is then transferred as imbedded data to LRC.

 

[Capturingtheunseen.com]

If you like what you are currently using and it is working for you then why change? However, if you want to try something new then LrC, or many other programs, might be something to look at. When people say "lightroom lost my folders or photos" what they mean is they failed to instruct the program to do something. The program simply needs to be instructed correctly and then the images would not be lost. The most difficult module for most people is the Library Module and this is the heart of LrC, it is the module where you manage all of your images and then you use the other modules to do very specific things. If you are interested in knowing more about LrC the best thing to do is to read the Adobe online help manual, in particular anything having to do with the Library Module. Once you understand this module the rest is easy. A good book is the Martin Evening book on lightroom, he is very orderly in presenting the information. If you did use LrC you need to understand that all edits are contained in the catalog unless you tell the program to save your edits to that file, you can do this using the save command or in preferences, then you can use the file with all the changes in Bridge, camera raw or most other software.

Obviously you know LR inside and out if you've been writing about it. Not everyone has the amount of time--or wants to spend it--to learn all the ins and outs of LR. I have spent hours watching tutorials, reading books, learning whatever I can, and I still don't love the program. When I find something more intuitive it will be gone from my PC. Having recently started using Topaz DeNoise AI for NR and sharpening, I have come to realize just how poorly LR handles those functions. That has led me to believe that there are other functions that could be performed more efficiently by other software programs.

 

[Icarus]

I find Bridge very straight forward and easy to use with ability to do a good deal of processing before switching to PS for final processing. I started using Bridge and PS and never switched to LR. I find Bridge very easy to use. Haven't switched to LR because I haven't needed to, just one more thing to learn which takes my attention off my photos. That said I'm not a pro and speed is not important to me.