continuous focus bird photography

[david dono]

Using back button continuous focus to photograph small birds, when looking in view finder everything sharp , but on firing the shutter it latches on to nearby branch, leaf etc and bird out of focus, happens on single and d9 focus points on d850. Any tricks to help with this?

 

[Thern]

Sounds like you use BBAF incorrect.
You focus on the bird untill it’s sharp and/or you get infocus confirmation (the green solid dot) then you release the BBAF and press the shutter.
If you don’t release the button you might as well keep using the half pressed shutterrelease for focussing.

/edit
I assumed you’re referring at shooting perched birds.
If so my answer is correct.
If you’re however referring at shooting BIF you need to keep focussing on the bird.
In that case depending on the camera you use, you might try ‘another’ focusmode and/or ‘another’ setting for ‘Blocked shot AF response’ and possibly ‘Subject motion’

 

[gordon_g]

what is your Focus Tracking with lock-on set to? Maybe something is getting between the bird and the camera and it locking onto that to quickly? have you done any fine tune focus adjustment to make sure that you are not front or back focused? I cant imagine there is anything that would cause it to just change focus when the shutter is pressed. Also do you have the shuttle set to AF activation off, so only the AF-on button is controlling autofocus and not the shutter as well?

 

[Callie]

Pocket rockets are some of the most difficult and frustrating BIF subjects. I have been trying for 20 years, and it is not easy and success rate is low. Best is to try and get them when they leave the perch, but they are so fast and unpredictable, that your do not know which way they are going to go off to. So, pre-focus on the subject them realign so that there is space for the bird to fly into the frame. Now you must anticipate when the subject will fly in or off, and you start shooting before that happens. I append an image where this was done.
Since autofocus works on contrast difference, if the subject is the size of the focus point or slightly larger, the camera often has no clue what you are trying to lock focus on so the result is often blurred images. Panning against clear, blue skies is different. Once the auto focus catches on, you can normally get plenty of keepers. I use the D850 and D500, but it was the same for the D4, D3S, D600, D800; D750 etc.
Shooting KF's or bee-eaters diving into or out of the water or swallows sipping off the water surface is the same problem, if the focus does not lock, no luck.
However, the harder you try, the luckier you get
Village Weaver, but the BG was OK so picking up was easier. D500; 500 PF@ F/7.1; 1/1600; ISO 500
The SS is way too slow for frozen wings, but I do not necessarily want frozen wings all the time; for frozen wings, then I go for >1/4000/s

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[gordon_g]

Sounds you use BBAF incorrect.
You focus on the bird untill it’s sharp and/or you get infocus confirmation (the green solid dot) then you release the BBAF and press the shutter

Great point Actually Therm! David are you holding the AF-on button down though the shuttle release?

 

[Callie]

Sounds like you use BBAF incorrect.
You focus on the bird untill it’s sharp and/or you get infocus confirmation (the green solid dot) then you release the BBAF and press the shutter.
If you don’t release the button you might as well keep using the half pressed shutterrelease for focussing.

Roger - I do not do this. If the bird is moving, my back button is pressed continually and my shutter, otherwise it flies out of focus field. I however, shoot in short bursts, just for the chance that the focus may drop, so I pick it up again

 

[gordon_g]

Roger - I do not do this. If the bird is moving, my back button is pressed continually and my shutter, otherwise it flies out of focus field. I however, shoot in short bursts, just for the chance that the focus my drop, so I pick it up again

I'm thinking he misspoke on that last sentence Callie

 

[Thern]

Roger - I do not do this. If the bird is moving, my back button is pressed continually and my shutter, otherwise it flies out of focus field. I however, shoot in short bursts, just for the chance that the focus may drop, so I pick it up again

Yes that’s exactly what I do too Callie.
For BIF or moving subjects that is, but for perched birds I release the AF button the moment I acquire Focusconfirmation. (Unless they start moving)
Somehow I get the idea the OP is referring at this last scenario, but I may be wrong off course LOL

 

[DRwyoming]

For BIF or moving subjects that is, but for perched birds I release the AF button the moment I acquire Focusconfirmation. (Unless they start moving)

Yeah, it's that "Unless they start moving" part that often has me holding down the AF-ON button continuously. A lot of small birds move their heads back and forth, up and down all the time and if they're large in the frame and I'm shooting wide open it really pays to keep focus tracking throughout the shot. But sure, for birds that stay fairly still I'll just focus, release the AF-ON button and then shoot.

To the OP, how large are birds in your frame and is there any chance your camera and focus points are moving around as you release the shutter? If so, getting closer optically or physically for larger subject size may help you keep the focus point right on the eyes and perhaps working on a soft shutter release and/or improving handholding technique or camera support so the framing doesn't change as you release the shutter.

But also as Thern posted, if your subject is still there's no need to keep holding in the AF-ON button while you release the shutter. Similarly if you ARE releasing the AF-ON button prior to shutter release and the focus changes to a branch then double check that AF activation is no longer associated with the shutter release as that would throw a big wrench in the works.

 

[david dono]

Thank you everyone for your considered replies.They are small birds often in amongst branches etc and definitely the bird is not filling much of the frame. I am holding down the BBF continually whilst firing off a short burst. . Having had the subject in focus I was hoping the camera think that is what ot is supposed to be looking at and not then look for something else when shutter fired. Will double check my settings though!

 

[DRwyoming]

Having had the subject in focus I was hoping the camera think that is what ot is supposed to be looking at and not then look for something else when shutter fired

That depends a bit on the AF Area mode chosen but for Single Point AF Area the camera just looks for high contrast under or near the selected focus point. It doesn't have intelligence to remember the exact image under that area, it just looks for high contrast so if the camera framing moves a bit as you release the shutter and now there's a relatively high contrast branch under the focus point then the AF system will often grab right onto that.

 

[gbodave]

Sounds like you use BBAF incorrect.
You focus on the bird untill it’s sharp and/or you get infocus confirmation (the green solid dot) then you release the BBAF and press the shutter.
If you don’t release the button you might as well keep using the half pressed shutterrelease for focussing.

/edit
I assumed you’re referring at shooting perched birds.
If so my answer is correct.
If you’re however referring at shooting BIF you need to keep focussing on the bird.
In that case depending on the camera you use, you might try ‘another’ focusmode and/or ‘another’ setting for ‘Blocked shot AF response’ and possibly ‘Subject motion’

I always keep the back button pressed for static subjects because when they take off a single press and release of the back button will be useless but by having the back button continually pressed focus will be retained when that movement occurs.

 

[gbodave]

With single point AF you place that point and it will not move unless you inadvertently move the camera at the point of pressing the shutter button.

Your camera should have an option to show a number of overlays on the image when viewing it in the playback screens. One of those will display exactly where the single focus point ended up. If you have this problem again see what that reveals.

Alternatively, you can get this plugin for LR which will show you the placement of the focus point.

Show Focus Points Plugin for Lightroom

 

[gordon_g]

With single point AF you place that point and it will not move unless you inadvertently move the camera at the point of pressing the shutter button.

Your camera should have an option to show a number of overlays on the image when viewing it in the playback screens. One of those will display exactly where the single focus point ended up. If you have this problem again see what that reveals.

Alternatively, you can get this plugin for LR which will show you the placement of the focus point.

Show Focus Points Plugin for Lightroom

Nikon View NX will show the focus point as well.

 

[Indrajeet Singh]

I have my D850 set up to use #1 - pinpoint AF (toggle button), #2 - 9 point (Pv button) and # 3 - Group (AF On) - Continuous C is permanently selected. If the bird is in a cluttered situation I use #1, for BiF clear sky background #2 and when its flying against a background of trees etc. - #3. Works very reliably.

 

[Thern]

I always keep the back button pressed for static subjects because when they take off a single press and release of the back button will be useless

I didn’t say I do that, but why don’t you just use the original AF activation setup then? (Halfpress shutter release)
If you’re always keep AF activated?

Isn’t the use of BBAF ‘invented’ to have more control over AF? Thus preventing the AF to refocus once you acquired focus?
Activating it when needed? (Which is the moment the subject moves)
If I’m shooting constantly moving objects with the zoom or 800mm handheld I’m using AF-C continuously.
If I however want to shoot a static subject with a lot slower shutterspeed (it’s set under the Pv button together with AF-C single point) I lift the 800 aim, acquire focus, release the BBAF button and press the shutterrelease.
If I work this way my keeperrate is very high.(regarding focus)
If I use continuous focusactivation my keeperrate is a lot less.
Assessing my pictures I see a lot of succesfull pics (again regarding focus) where the focuspoint isn’t on the subject anymore when firing the shutter, which means I would have lost focus if I kept AF activated.

FYI I shoot almost always handheld because I’m a ‘hunting’ photog.
I carry a monopod (never a tripod) but I tend not to use it and shoot handheld
(The tripod is only used when I’m shooting from a blind or hide.)

 

[gbodave]

The big advantage of turning the overlays on is that you see the information immediately after taking a shot and if it's "off" another shot can be taken straightaway.

You're using two buttons - I'm using one. By the time you switch to pV the subject may have gone. Yes. I know it only takes a split second but birds will be off even in that short time.

"Isn’t the use of BBAF ‘invented’ to have more control over AF? Thus preventing the AF to refocus once you acquired focus?"

By continually pressing the back button focus is never lost as long as the focus point is on the subject. If the subject moves and I follow it (which is required whatever focus method is used) focus is always acquired.

 

[gbodave]

I didn’t say I do that, but why don’t you just use the original AF activation setup then? (Halfpress shutter release)
If you’re always keep AF activated?

Isn’t the use of BBAF ‘invented’ to have more control over AF? Thus preventing the AF to refocus once you acquired focus?
Activating it when needed? (Which is the moment the subject moves)
If I’m shooting constantly moving objects with the zoom or 800mm handheld I’m using AF-C continuously.
If I however want to shoot a static subject with a lot slower shutterspeed (it’s set under the Pv button together with AF-C single point) I lift the 800 aim, acquire focus, release the BBAF button and press the shutterrelease.
If I work this way my keeperrate is very high.(regarding focus)
If I use continuous focusactivation my keeperrate is a lot less.
Assessing my pictures I see a lot of succesfull pics (again regarding focus) where the focuspoint isn’t on the subject anymore when firing the shutter, which means I would have lost focus if I kept AF activated.

FYI I shoot almost always handheld because I’m a ‘hunting’ photog.
I carry a monopod (never a tripod) but I tend not to use it and shoot handheld
(The tripod is only used when I’m shooting from a blind or hide.)

All I said was what I do and quoted a valid reason. There's more to BBAF than how to press which is why I said goodbye to the half press method a long time ago.

 

[dabhand16]

Using back button continuous focus to photograph small birds, when looking in view finder everything sharp , but on firing the shutter it latches on to nearby branch, leaf etc and bird out of focus, happens on single and d9 focus points on d850. Any tricks to help with this?

Have you disabled the AF on the shutter release?

 

[thelordofthelight]

I think the biggest advantage of using BBAF is that it offers the best of both worlds (AF-C and AF-S). This is how i use it - When i am photographing perched birds i press the AF-ON to acquire focus and then release it before pressing the shutter button (this is similar to using AF-S). I take 3-5 shots and then again press the AF-ON just to account for minor movements so that the plane of focus doesn't shift drastically. With moving subjects, the best approach is to keep holding the AF-ON button even while pressing the shutter button (behaves like AF-C) so that the camera continuously keeps focusing the subject and makes minor adjustments when the plane of focus changes. Pressing the AF-ON and releasing it just before pressing the shutter button may not yield the best results as the subject is moving constantly (unless the subject moves sideways and there is no change in the plane of focus).

As to the qn posted by the OP, when you review your images on a raw viewer like View-NXi, is your AF point still on the bird and not the branch or elsewhere? If yes, this could be an AF Fine tuning problem - I had the exact same problem with my D850. If the AF box is on the branch or elsewhere, i think it could be because of the AF Area mode used. With the D850/500 and D5, Nikon changed the way dynamic area modes work. Also, if your camera is consistently hunting between the subject/background, you may want to check your focus tracking with lock on settings and make it less sensitive.

Can you also try taking some shots with VR set to off? the Normal VR on some lenses are a bit aggressive and the frame you see on viewfinder is not what gets captured actually.

 

[david dono]

Again thanks for all the input. My shutter AF was disabled, set up to fire shutter only. Everything set up as required for bbf.
Have been using a 500pf on the d850. Have tried it with VR on and off. Fine tuned the lens-its sharp. I was assuming its small subjects and /or poor contrast but was hoping that when I had acquired focus when I depressed shutter that focus would be retained and not shift whilst holding down the BBF.

 

[Venkatesh VT]

I have tried out a method which seem to work for perched birds.When i am not able to get initial focus or lose focus between shots i try focussing on the branches below & trace the focus back to the brid.
I used this yesterday to get focus back on this Pied bushchat after i lost focus suddenly.I have tried this on birds perched on electric wires too by focussing on the electric pole & then tracing it along the wire to the bird
Gear used for the shot - D 500 with 500 PF

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[Callie]

I have tried out a method which seem to work for perched birds.When i am not able to get initial focus or lose focus between shots i try focussing on the branches below & trace the focus back to the brid.
I used this yesterday to get focus back on this Pied bushchat after i lost focus suddenly.I have tried this on birds perched on electric wires too by focussing on the electric pole & then tracing it along the wire to the bird

I do the same, and often just focus on the branch between his legs - as long as the focus plane is parallel to the subject, it also works for two birds on a branch.

 

[Sharon Artley]

Unless I have misread this thread: I use BBAF, usually with single point AF and always continue to press the BBAF button rather than releasing it, as unless it is a large, still bird, there is often movement. Is the suggestion that Iit is better to release when it is a fairly still bird and if so, what is the advantage?

 

[Thern]

Unless I have misread this thread: I use BBAF, usually with single point AF and always continue to press the BBAF button rather than releasing it, as unless it is a large, still bird, there is often movement. Is the suggestion that Iit is better to release when it is a fairly still bird and if so, what is the advantage?

No right or wrong answer here Sharon.
If you’re shooting a static subject with a large and heavy supertele handheld I learned it’s often better to release the BBAF button once you acquire focus.
By doing so you prevent the camera from focussing ‘somewhere else’ due to movement of the rig.
FTR I am a really strong guy working out three times a week in the gym but I’m not able to keep the rig thát steady that I can ‘pin’ the focuspoint exactly on the subject where I want it for prolonged time.
So MY way is to lift, aim, focus, once focus acquired, let go of the BBAF button, recompose and fire (while keeping an eye on focus and refocussing when needed.)
Like I said I do this with non-moving subjects.
For moving subjects I keep BBAF activated during the burst.

A nice read on BBAF

What is Back Button Focus and Why You Should be Using It

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